HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Stovetops and blends (16 msgs / 503 lines)
1) From: Tim Deines
Hi all,
I've been roasting like crazy since I picked up a decent espresso machine
and grinder (and discovered SM's!!!), and now that I'm on this list I want
to solicit any opinions/experiences.  The two Poppery II's I've got work
really well, they just don't produce enough for my habit.  So I've been
stovetop roasting, in a couple different size (1 & 2 qt) Calphalon sauce
pans with lids.  The beans roll really easily in these pans, which I like.
My usual procedure is to heat up the covered pan before dumping my beans.  I
read somewhere, perhaps here, that a 9 min. to 200 F. rate was good to
begin.  Of course, things get a whole lot hotter after that, and it's mostly
guess work.  Also, even though my roasts seem good (and I generally go for
origin-sensitive roasts), I'm not convinced I'm going about it the best way.
For instance, sometimes I'll leave the pot uncovered, as it's easier to hear
1st crack.  But of course one loses heat that way and chaff flies
everywhere.  With the lid on (and it's glass so it's easy to see the roast)
a small amount of condensation collects.  I don't know what differences
these things make.  Any help?
Also, I'd love to know what success roasters have had combining any of the
following, and in what proportions...for espresso, that is:
Yemen Sanani
Kenya Kirinyaga-Thimu Peaberry
Kenya AA
Harar
Yerga
Panama Carmen Estate
La Minita
Guat Chemeltenango
Panama Bambito Estate
Panama Mama Cata Gesha
Samatra Blue Batak
PNG Kimel
Guat Antigua Finca Yellow Bourbon
Indian Monsooned Malabar "Elephant"
Tanzania Songea
Sumatra Mandheling
Columbia Supremo
Any thoughts?
T.D.

2) From: Tim Deines
I'm doing mostly S.O. roasts, and just experimenting with blends.  Don't
have large quantities even though personally I'm impressed with my stash.  I
like to just stand and look at it.
So it sounds like you'd recommend starting with a cold pot, adding the
beans, and slowly increasing the heat?  I know it depends on several
factors, but first crack after 10 min.?
On 8/31/07 4:50 PM, "Cj. Aberte"  wrote:
<Snip>

3) From: Lynne Biziewski
Ah, this is my area (where as, with my IR2, I've been a disaster in the
kitchen -
at least for now).
I don't cover the pan when I roast. I also don't have a thermometer to check
the temp. -
tried to buy one, but it was defective & I found I didn't need it.
What I do is this (and forgive me if it all sounds too esoteric - it is
really based a lot
on instinct). First, I heat my little pan, which is also a Calphalon type
sauce pan. Don't
know how big it is (got it marked down at T.J.Maxx), but it's 5 1/2" wide X
3" deep. (Deeper
would be even better, but this is what I could find).
Since I roast stove top on electric, not gas (and, keep in mind, this is a
really, really good
stove - had a crappy one before & it took awhile to adjust for the very wide
temp. range),
I preheat it for say, 2 or 3 minutes. But I don't cover the pan at all, and
I stir constantly for
the 10 to 12 minutes I roast.
With my stove I keep it on about 8 on the dial - you may need to adjust. If
it starts to go into
first crack before, say 6 - 8 minutes, I take it off the heat for a few
moments here & there.
Basically, I'm trying for a longer roast than I usually actually get. I set
the timer, and if they
start getting close to first crack too soon, I take it off the heat for a
little while, and still continue
to stir.
I can only say that it's been experience that teaches me WHEN it's too fast.
Although I continue
to set my timer, I can honestly say I hardly ever glance at it anymore.
Oh, also, when it does start to go into first crack, that's when I
alternate, taking the pan off the heat,
putting it back on, so it doesn't go through first crack too, too fast.
But I keep stirring the whole time. The constant stirring doesn't bother me
- in fact, I find it relaxing,
but then I'm basically nuts. I've never had a problem w/chaff flying around
(I take it outside on the
porch to cool w/a fan) in the house, and by now I don't even lose too many
beans as I stir (and my
scavenger-Border Collie even knows to keep away if I do toss some around...
she gets seizures,
& I don't need to trigger any with toxic coffee, so I mean business, & she
knows it.
I'm curious how you roast w/out stirring - don't the bottom beans burn?
Anyway, others can help you with the different types of beans. As much as I
want to take notes,
and I know how helpful that is - I still haven't done that yet. I have
noticed that some beans go into
first crack faster - could be older beans (drier).
I basically just know when the temp is right. It's great - but now that I'm
going to be majoring in
culinary arts, I realize that roasting coffee like this commercially is NOT
exactly effective for a large
quantity, so I need how to become more scientific, and maybe use my
intuitive nature in a different way.
Hope I've been able to help...
Lynne
(who is probably clear as mud)
On 8/31/07, Tim Deines  wrote:
<Snip>

4) From: Lynne Biziewski
Oooo - I managed to get a nice, caramelly flavor to a batch of Ethiopian
Sidamo Decaf, which I wasn't able to duplicate. While I have been VERY
happy with my method, you may be right. I know that I was just plain lazy
and didn't wait to heat up the pan with one roast - that may have been it.
Anyway, I am trying my IR2, and hopefully I can get beyond my Fear of
Numbers and all that, and be able to become successful with this baby.
I hate to ruin wonderful coffee, though...
<Snip>

5) From: Tim Deines
<Snip>
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
Thanks for the info, Lynne.  To answer your question, I find that the beans
roll so well in the pan that shaking it is at least as effective as
stirring.  With smaller quantities (1 c., e.g.), I find a whisk works
extremely well.  Actually, Iım quite amazed that my humble equipment
produces such good results.  Itıs very exciting...but like you I may be a
bit ³touched.²
Iım going to try both methods‹starting cold and warm‹and see what happens.
Like you, Lynne, Iım working off instinct mostly.
What I like about first crack on the stovetop is the vigor of it.  In the
popper, I get consistent popping over approx. a 90 sec. period, but on the
stove more beans seem to pop... and more energetically.  I assume that a
good thing. 
On 8/31/07 5:36 PM, "Lynne Biziewski"  wrote:
<Snip>
eck
<Snip>
eally
<Snip>
 X 3"
<Snip>
a
<Snip>
ide
<Snip>
nd I
<Snip>
If it
<Snip>
et
<Snip>
st.
<Snip>
ate,
<Snip>
me -
<Snip>
nd (I
<Snip>
y
<Snip>
..
<Snip>
e
<Snip>
 I
<Snip>
ticed
<Snip>
'm
<Snip>
OT
<Snip>
tive
<Snip>
e
<Snip>
nt
<Snip>
e.
<Snip>
.  I
<Snip>
stly
<Snip>
or
<Snip>
way.
<Snip>
hear
<Snip>
st)
<Snip>
he
<Snip>
tings
<Snip>

6) From: Tim Deines
<Snip>
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
So is the idea that the bean mass temperature should be constantly
increasing throughout the roast, irrespective of when the roast is stopped?
On 8/31/07 5:45 PM, "Lynne Biziewski"  wrote:
<Snip>

7) From: Lynne Biziewski
To me, it's similar to baking bread. You know the basics, but when it comes
right down to it. lots depends
on instinct.
Hopefully, my decision to go to culinary school, with the goal to work in
the food industry (not restaurant work!)
doesn't kill my love of all things food & coffee related... I can relate to
the humble Mexican women who cook
mole all day, outdoors, more than I can relate to typical modern day
restaurant work.
Sometimes I just feel like an aardvark... or maybe a platypus, since that
animal is now extinct!
Lynne
On 8/31/07, Tim Deines  wrote:
<Snip>
pens.
<Snip>
e
<Snip>

8) From: Tim Deines
<Snip>
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
I ran across a really silly argument on Home-Barista over the relative
quality of home vs. professional roasting.  Strengths and weaknesses to bot=
h
no doubt.  I bake bread, too, and itıs really, really good sometimes...but
not always.  Something would be lost in the experience if it was always
great.  I love home roasting because of the unknowns, not in spite of them.
On the other hand....
On 8/31/07 6:07 PM, "Lynne Biziewski"  wrote:
<Snip>
es
<Snip>
 the
<Snip>
to
<Snip>
ans
<Snip>
ring.
<Snip>
l.
<Snip>
s.
<Snip>
e
<Snip>
he
<Snip>
 good
<Snip>

9) From: Lynne Biziewski
The good thing w/this is that in time - your talent improves. I want to get
to the point of all of it being intuitive. My bread baking has improved
dramatically in the past few years... figure the coffee roasting will, too.
That said, of course I have dud now & then. Just human nature... but it's s=
o
cool to notice my own improvement in my skills.
Lynne
On 8/31/07, Tim Deines  wrote:
<Snip>
oth
<Snip>
t
<Snip>
m.
<Snip>
pens.
<Snip>
e
<Snip>

10) From: Lynne Biziewski
Don't know - hopefully someone else will chime in.
L.
On 8/31/07, Tim Deines  wrote:
<Snip>

11) From: Larry Williams
I have roasted a lot of batches in my IR2.  I have learned how to 
program the machine, but seem to always go back to the preprogram #2.  
It seems to meet my needs and my preference which is City to City+.  I 
was cooling the roasts with 2:30 to 3:00 remaining usually looking for 
the first trace of surface oil on the beans.  That was pretty easy, but 
after lots of batches I found that the coffee after resting got stronger 
than I liked.  Just recently I started cooling the beans with  4 minutes 
remaining and the result has been more to my liking.  My last roast is a 
Costa Rican and it is wonderful. 
I am thinking about doing some profiles with progressively higher temps 
on the finish to see how the beans react.
The more I roast the less I understand the process.  But it is ALWAYS great.
Larry Williams
Lynne Biziewski wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.1/981 - Release Date: 8/31/2007 6:13 AM

12) From: Rick Copple
My primary roasting method is a wok on an electric stove. Been doing it 
that way for over two years now. I can usually get what I'm shooting 
for, though this last time I took the Guat. La Maravilla a little too 
light and have more lime in the flavor than I like. Still good, but I 
would rather have more of the dutch chocolate flavor there.
But I'll say this in answer to some of the questions.
One, I did a post here which I'm sure can be pulled up in the archives 
where I discuss my roasting method in more detail. I really intend to 
put that up on my blog at some point, so I'll try to do that and let the 
folks here know about it. If I can do it, I hope to have some video of 
the process.
I usually preheat my wok. My electric stove has notches from 1 to 10. I 
set it for about 6.5 to preheat. Then I get the stuff ready. By the time 
I'm ready to dump the beans, its preheated. Then I drop the dial down to 
5 and dump the beans and start stirring. Right after or at the tail end 
of first crack, I'll turn it down to 4 to stretch out the time between 
first and second crack more.
I've found that the bean flavors come out more if I make sure the heat 
is high enough that it will get you to first crack within 10 to 12 
minutes, and for some reason it seems I need a roast, no matter what 
level I'm roasting to, to be in the wok for 15 minutes minimum to get 
fully cooked. So, if you're shooting for a city roast, it means you need 
to stretch out the ramp time to first crack more so that it ends around 
15 minutes in or later, but not so long that it ends up "baking" it.
But I discovered the faster ramp time to first crack is good for 
bringing out the flavors. Roasted an Ethiopian Harrar that this method 
brought out the berry flavor much more than I had on a slower ramp.
I don't have a lid, so I've never done it with the shake and roll 
method, though I've heard some do. I think my beans do come out more 
"dry" it seems, especially in the lighter roast I can feel the 
difference when I'm grinding in my Zass (takes more cranking power to 
grind them up). But as they go darker, they get lighter. But a city 
roast from my popper and a city roast from the wok, the wok's will be 
harder to grind.
I stir constantly, call it stir-fried coffee. ;)
I don't have much chaff come out while I'm stirring. It mostly stays in 
the pan with the coffee. It all comes out when I'm cooling it. But you 
do need good ventilation to the outside if you are in the kitchen. My 
hood doesn't go to the outside, so I have a fan I stick in the window 
which seems to do the trick well enough. Otherwise, you end up with a 
cloud of smoke filling your house, and your family cursing your name. ;)
-- 
Rick Copple

13) From: JanoMac
Buck up, Lynne!
The venerable old platypus is not extinct (nor is the aardvark, for that
matter). In spite of early days of hunting and shrinking habitat,
_Ornithorhynchus anatinus_ (duck-billed platypus) of Australia is still
"common but vulnerable."
There! Do you feel better?
Kirk
Lynne wrote:
<Snip>

14) From: Lynne Biziewski
Wow - the platypus is still around?!! How cool is THAT!
You know, I read a lot - and I mean a lot - but I never read anything
disputing
the info that was 'common knowledge' way back when... that is so terrific.
And that also gives me hope (knew the aardvark was still around) for this
odd
mixture of a human.
Thanks for making my day!
Lynne
On 9/1/07, JanoMac  wrote:
<Snip>

15) From:
 I've began blending recently, I do plan it on purpose.  For example, I love the feel sumatra leaves, and I love the bite that african gives, and costa rica just has a good taste.  So I did all 3 in equal parts.  Turned out great.  Sometimes you back off or add to get the flavors you want.  Sometimes it is a complete flop (don't bother trying decaf Ethiopian/indonesian/african-it was great the first day, then just tasted gross day 2+)
It makes the most sense to roast SO beans first then blend, but I have been blending then greens.  You can end up with different degrees of roast all in 1 batch, but with the size batch I'm doing, it works for me.
Tim
---- Tim Deines  wrote: 
<Snip>

16) From: Cookie (Ann-Marie)
I can probably try this on a Friday morning. My cleaning lady comes then, s=
o if I am roasting something really chaffy, she will be able to clean it up=
 for me. Plus, the smell of the cleaning supplies might cover up the smell =
of the roasting, which often smells unpleasant to me.
     I told a young=
 (25 year old) friend of mine, some coffees smell like "you are down to ste=
ms and seeds." He was shocked! I said, "Hey. I am over 50. Did you think yo=
ur generation invented marijuana?"
  (Actually, I never did smoke pot. I =
had undiagnosed temporal lobe epilepsy, and had seizures that caused realit=
y to "shift" for me. I thought I was going insane, and was too afraid of lo=
sing control to try drugs. Caffeine was the only drug I used. And, now, you=
 know more about me than you want to!)
    Cookie
 http://cookiestit=ches.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Lynne Bizi=
ewski 
To: homeroast
Sent: Fr=
iday, August 31, 2007 4:36:33 PM
Subject: Re: +Stovetops and blends
=
Ah, this is my area (where as, with my IR2, I've been a disaster in the kit=
chen - 
at least for now).
I don't cover the pan when I roast. I als=
o don't have a thermometer to check the temp. -
tried to buy one, but it =
was defective & I found I didn't need it. 
What I do is this (and forg=
ive me if it all sounds too esoteric - it is really based a lot 
on insti=
nct). First, I heat my little pan, which is also a Calphalon type sauce pan=
. Don't
know how big it is (got it marked down at T.J.Maxx), but it's 5 1=
/2" wide X 3" deep. (Deeper
would be even better, but this is what I coul=
d find).
Since I roast stove top on electric, not gas (and, keep in mi=
nd, this is a really, really good 
stove - had a crappy one before & it t=
ook awhile to adjust for the very wide temp. range), 
I preheat it for sa=
y, 2 or 3 minutes. But I don't cover the pan at all, and I stir constantly =
for 
the 10 to 12 minutes I roast. 
With my stove I keep it on about=
 8 on the dial - you may need to adjust. If it starts to go into
first cr=
ack before, say 6 - 8 minutes, I take it off the heat for a few moments her=
e & there.
Basically, I'm trying for a longer roast than I usually act=
ually get. I set the timer, and if they 
start getting close to first cra=
ck too soon, I take it off the heat for a little while, and still continue=
to stir.
I can only say that it's been experience that teaches me W=
HEN it's too fast. Although I continue 
to set my timer, I can honestly s=
ay I hardly ever glance at it anymore.
Oh, also, when it does start to=
 go into first crack, that's when I alternate, taking the pan off the heat,=
 
putting it back on, so it doesn't go through first crack too, too fast.=
 
But I keep stirring the whole time. The constant stirring doesn't bo=
ther me - in fact, I find it relaxing, 
but then I'm basically nuts. I've=
 never had a problem w/chaff flying around (I take it outside on the 
por=
ch to cool w/a fan) in the house, and by now I don't even lose too many bea=
ns as I stir (and my 
scavenger-Border Collie even knows to keep away if =
I do toss some around... she gets seizures,
& I don't need to trigger any=
 with toxic coffee, so I mean business, & she knows it. 
I'm curious h=
ow you roast w/out stirring - don't the bottom beans burn?
Anyway, oth=
ers can help you with the different types of beans. As much as I want to ta=
ke notes, 
and I know how helpful that is - I still haven't done that yet=
. I have noticed that some beans go into 
first crack faster - could be o=
lder beans (drier).
I basically just know when the temp is right. It's=
 great - but now that I'm going to be majoring in
culinary arts, I realiz=
e that roasting coffee like this commercially is NOT exactly effective for =
a large 
quantity, so I need how to become more scientific, and maybe use=
 my intuitive nature in a different way.
Hope I've been able to help..=
.
Lynne
(who is probably clear as mud)
On 8/31/07, Tim Deine=
s  wrote:
Hi all,
I've been roasting like crazy si=
nce I picked up a decent espresso machine
and grinder (and discovered SM'=
s!!!), and now that I'm on this list I want
to solicit any opinions/exper=
iences.  The two Poppery II's I've got work 
really well, they just don't=
 produce enough for my habit.  So I've been
stovetop roasting, in a coupl=
e different size (1 & 2 qt) Calphalon sauce
pans with lids.  The beans ro=
ll really easily in these pans, which I like. 
My usual procedure is to h=
eat up the covered pan before dumping my beans.  I
read somewhere, perhap=
s here, that a 9 min. to 200 F. rate was good to
begin.  Of course, thing=
s get a whole lot hotter after that, and it's mostly 
guess work.  Also, =
even though my roasts seem good (and I generally go for
origin-sensitive =
roasts), I'm not convinced I'm going about it the best way.
For instance,=
 sometimes I'll leave the pot uncovered, as it's easier to hear 
1st crac=
k.  But of course one loses heat that way and chaff flies
everywhere.  Wi=
th the lid on (and it's glass so it's easy to see the roast)
a small amou=
nt of condensation collects.  I don't know what differences 
these things=
 make.  Any help?
Also, I'd love to know what success roasters have ha=
d combining any of the
following, and in what proportions...for espresso,=
 that is:
Yemen Sanani
Kenya Kirinyaga-Thimu Peaberry 
Kenya AA
=
Harar
Yerga
Panama Carmen Estate
La Minita
Guat Chemeltenango
Pan=
ama Bambito Estate
Panama Mama Cata Gesha
Samatra Blue Batak
PNG Kime=
l
Guat Antigua Finca Yellow Bourbon
Indian Monsooned Malabar "Elephant"=
 
Tanzania Songea
Sumatra Mandheling
Columbia Supremo
Any though=
ts?
T.D.
hom=
eroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroa=st
To change your personal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsv=
bscribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings


HomeRoast Digest