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Topic: recording time of 1st crack (24 msgs / 506 lines)
1) From: Stephen Carey
Hi, all.  A few weeks ago we had a discussion about that errant 1st 
bean crack that goes off as much as 20 seconds before the rest of the 
beans start cracking.  This is not on all roasts, of course, but on 
enough that it can be a bit confused on when to list the time of the 
1st crack.  Do I list it at the time of the errant little over 
anxious bean or at the time of the major cracks beginning.  Logic 
tells me to record the time of the bunch beginning to crack, but I 
have certainly been wrong before.  Right now I am recording both, on 
as "errant little sucker," and the other as "1st crack."
I am looking to see if there is something I am doing to cause this or 
if it is the nature of these wonderful beans, just to have one ready 
to go a bit early.  Since I know how wrong I can be on things I 
thought I would ask the brains and experience of this list to help me 
out on this one.
I just need guidance on which to record.
Thank you, in advance for your help once again.  I can't imagine 
trying this without you all.
All the best,
Stephen

2) From: Barry Luterman
Early and late beans are referred to as outliers. Measure cracks at the time 
they all go off (like popcorn in a microwave).Ignore outliers.

3) From: jim gundlach
I start the time when I can no longer count the individual cracks,  
pops, clacks, or what ever you want to call them.
      pecan jim
On Sep 4, 2007, at 5:14 PM, Stephen Carey wrote:
<Snip>

4) From: gin
Stephen:
It is the "1st" crack before the rolling and it all depends on beans, heat, your mood and are you paying attention??
g
---- Stephen Carey  wrote: 
<Snip>

5) From: Homeroaster
I'd betcha that the cracks, both first and second, if logged would form a 
perfect bell curve.
Higher heat would make the curve narrower, lower would spread it out.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

6) From: Larry Williams
My IR2 is noisy.  I can't hear the first crack  so I look for the cracks 
in the beans.  They fracture right in the center.  The second crack is 
when small circles are broken or blown from the sides of the beans.  
Like little craters.  I'm I off base?
Larry Williams
Homeroaster wrote:
<Snip>
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7) From: Tim Deines
I haven't been taking roasts to second crack lately, but when I have it's
like you say--small black discs get blown off the sides.  When that happens
I know we are in endtimes.
On 9/4/07 8:22 PM, "Larry Williams"  wrote:
<Snip>

8) From: raymanowen
"ask the brains..."
In that case, I plead Dummkopf.
I think you have the right idea about time, sir. Whenever you want to
record any kind of data in which you have high confidence, always
ignore and discard the high and low numbers. The reason is just as you
observed, "errant."
Who knows exactly why the first one "goes?" If you're doing some
research on Variation in Coffee Bean Roasting, you'd track every snap
of several roasts, noting the relative humidity and length of storage,
etc.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
When does rush hour start?

9) From: gin
rush hour left...
one train is in the station for you...
g
---- raymanowen wrote: 
<Snip>

10) From: Eddie Dove
Stephen,
The roasts with the "errant little sucker" aren't errant at all; that
is your audible notification to PAY ATTENTION.  Its the others that
are lacking.
I record that one as the "rifle shot" and first crack when the rest
get going.  The secret is to record whatever helps you learn, but
don't let the recording come between you and the coffee.
You have over twenty roasts to your name.  Be comfortable, be
confident, be the bean.
Eddie
-- 
Vita non est vivere sed valere vita est
Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/On 9/4/07, Stephen Carey  wrote:
<Snip>

11) From: Leo Zick
my mood is to have FC at 1min, and SC at 1min, with no smoke, and a perfect
roast.
that doesnt seem to work very well though, guess i have to change my mood
On 9/4/07, gin  wrote:
<Snip>

12) From: Stephen Carey
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I totally agree with you Eddie.  My roasts are controlled mostly by 
my senses.  I use the record of information so I can go back to a 
bean or a type of bean and see what worked and what did not.  But, I 
also record what smells seem present, the look of the bean, the sound 
of the bean when I hit cool, all of it.  It I were to just let a 
profile run my roast I don't know what I would end up with.  I am 
getting pretty comfortable with my roasts.  There are some beans that 
I haven't dialed in totally, but I will get there.  Thanks for the 
push to trust my senses.
Stephen
At 08:39 PM 9/4/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>
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I totally agree with you Eddie.  My roasts are
controlled mostly by my senses.  I use the record of information so
I can go back to a bean or a type of bean and see what worked and what
did not.  But, I also record what smells seem present, the look of
the bean, the sound of the bean when I hit cool, all of it.  It I
were to just let a profile run my roast I don't know what I would end up
with.  I am getting pretty comfortable with my roasts.  There
are some beans that I haven't dialed in totally, but I will get
there.  Thanks for the push to trust my senses.
Stephen
At 08:39 PM 9/4/2007, you wrote:
Stephen,
The roasts with the "errant little sucker" aren't errant at
all; that
is your audible notification to PAY ATTENTION.  Its the others
that
are lacking.
I record that one as the "rifle shot" and first crack when the
rest
get going.  The secret is to record whatever helps you learn,
but
don't let the recording come between you and the coffee.
You have over twenty roasts to your name.  Be comfortable, be
confident, be the bean.
Eddie
-- 
Vita non est vivere sed valere vita est
Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafe
http://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/--=====================_126022312==.ALT--

13) From: jim gundlach
These little disks, some call them divots, are caused by heating the  
beans too quickly.
       pecan jim
On Sep 4, 2007, at 7:25 PM, Tim Deines wrote:
<Snip>

14) From: Tim Deines
Aha!  I didn't know that.
On 9/4/07 11:11 PM, "jim gundlach"  wrote:
<Snip>

15) From: Leo Zick
as long as your divots are straight, you should have a good indication of
solid ball contact and a good shot.
oh, wrong forum
On 9/4/07, jim gundlach  wrote:
<Snip>

16) From: Cameron Forde
Wouldn't higher heat lead to a wider range of distributions since
there is a distribution of bean sizes?  The small beans would reach
first crack really quickly whereas the larger beans would take longer.
 A slower ramp would ensure that the beans would heat more uniformly
and would result in a narrower distribution.  Has anyone explored
this?
Cameron
On 9/4/07, Homeroaster  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
ceforde

17) From: miKe mcKoffee
My 6+ years roasting observations agree with Ed, generally speaking higher
heat yields tighter crack pattern.
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
www.mcKonaKoffee.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
<Snip>

18) From: jim gundlach
My observations are consistent with Mike's, I think screening the  
beans by size may prevent the emergence of the size effect Cameron is  
thinking about.
     pecan jim
On Sep 5, 2007, at 6:54 PM, miKe mcKoffee wrote:
<Snip>

19) From: Homeroaster
My personal experience is that if the heat is higher than it should be that 
the cracks start quickly and profusely, and stop sooner than if the heat was 
less.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

20) From: Cameron Forde
It sounds like my idea was all hot air.
Cameron
On 9/5/07, Homeroaster  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
ceforde

21) From: Justin Marquez
... as long as the heat input is constant.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (In Merrye Olde...)
On 9/5/07, Homeroaster  wrote:
<Snip>
--

22) From: Joe Screnock
Eddie Dove wrote:
<Snip>
I agree with what Eddie wrote - "...record whatever helps you learn...".
I decided early on that for my records, the time of First Crack occurs 
when I hear the 5th *snap*.  It usually lasts about 2 minutes from 
there, and frequently I don't even get a "rolling" First Crack.
Remember, I'm roasting in an RK drum.  When popper roasting, two minutes 
after First Crack is usually Rolling Second.
When recording Second Crack (a much more important milestone for my 
roasts), I record Second Outliers as well as (if necessary) Rolling Second.
On a different topic, does anyone have "milestone" roasts for which they 
do something special?  I'm approaching the 400 lb mark, and may do a 
special roast to commemorate the 500th pound through the roaster later 
this year.
Joe "Yet Another Hijacked Thread" Screnock
-- 
No virus was sent with this message - jjs.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.8/993 - Release Date: 9/6/2007 3:18 PM

23) From: Cookie (Ann-Marie)
You forgot the part about each sip tasting as marvelous as the first one of=
 the morning. I have a friend who says whoever can figure out how to do tha=
t will be a billionaire.
  Cookie
 
 http://cookiestitches.blogspo=t.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Leo Zick 
To: homeroast
Sent: Tuesday, September 4,=
 2007 8:36:23 PM
Subject: Re: +recording time of 1st crack
my mood i=
s to have FC at 1min, and SC at 1min, with no smoke, and a perfect roast.=
that doesnt seem to work very well though, guess i have to change my moo=
d
On 9/4/07, gin  wrote:
Stephen: 
It is =
the "1st" crack before the rolling and it all depends on beans, heat, your =
mood and are you paying attention??
g
---- Stephen Carey=
 < steve> wrote:
> Hi, all.  A few weeks ago we had a di=
scussion about that errant 1st
> bean crack that goes off as much as 20 s=
econds before the rest of the
> beans start cracking.  This is not on all=
 roasts, of course, but on 
> enough that it can be a bit confused on whe=
n to list the time of the
> 1st crack.  Do I list it at the time of the e=
rrant little over
> anxious bean or at the time of the major cracks begin=
ning.  Logic 
> tells me to record the time of the bunch beginning to cra=
ck, but I
> have certainly been wrong before.  Right now I am recording b=
oth, on
> as "errant little sucker," and the other as "1st crack." 
>=
> I am looking to see if there is something I am doing to cause this or=
> if it is the nature of these wonderful beans, just to have one ready=
> to go a bit early.  Since I know how wrong I can be on things I 
> t=
hought I would ask the brains and experience of this list to help me
> ou=
t on this one.
>
> I just need guidance on which to record.
>
> Tha=
nk you, in advance for your help once again.  I can't imagine 
> trying t=
his without you all.
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Stephen
>
>=
> homeroast mailing list
> =http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast> To change your =
personal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http=
://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings=
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetm=arias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast 
To change your personal list settin=
gs (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/m=aillistinfo.html#personalsettings

24) From: Cookie (Ann-Marie)
Say, If we save up our divots, could we sell them to unsuspecting Mr. Coffe=
e ninnies as "ground homeroast"?
  Cookie, who is only one step above tha=
t with her RED Kitchenaid autodrip.
 
 http://cookiestitches.blogspo=t.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Leo Zick 
To: homeroast
Sent: Wednesday, September =
5, 2007 9:01:24 AM
Subject: Re: +recording time of 1st crack
as long=
 as your divots are straight, you should have a good indication of solid ba=
ll contact and a good shot.
oh, wrong forum
On 9/4/07, jim gun=
dlach  wrote:
These little disks, some call them =
divots, are caused by heating the
beans too quickly.
       pecan jim=
On Sep 4, 2007, at 7:25 PM, Tim Deines wrote:
> I haven't been taki=
ng roasts to second crack lately, but when I 
> have it's
> like you sa=
y--small black discs get blown off the sides.  When that
> happens
> I =
know we are in endtimes.
>
>
> On 9/4/07 8:22 PM, "Larry Williams" < =
larrydwilliams> wrote:
>
>> My IR2 is noisy.  I can't hear t=
he first crack  so I look for the
>> cracks
>> in the beans.  They frac=
ture right in the center.  The second 
>> crack is
>> when small circle=
s are broken or blown from the sides of the beans.
>> Like little craters=
.  I'm I off base?
>>
>> Larry Williams
>>
>> Homeroaster wrote: =
>>> I'd betcha that the cracks, both first and second, if logged would=
>>> form a perfect bell curve.
>>> Higher heat would make the curve na=
rrower, lower would spread it
>>> out. 
>>> *********************
>>>=
 Ed Needham
>>> "to absurdity and beyond!"
>>>http://www.homeroaster.c=om
>>> ********************* 
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message --=
--- From: "Stephen Carey"
>>> To:  
>>=
<Snip>
of 1st crack
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi, all.  A few weeks ago we had a discussi=
on about that errant 1st 
>>>> bean crack that goes off as much as 20 sec=
onds before the rest
>>>> of the
>>>> beans start cracking.  This is no=
t on all roasts, of course, but on
>>>> enough that it can be a bit confu=
sed on when to list the time of 
>>>> the
>>>> 1st crack.  Do I list it=
 at the time of the errant little over
>>>> anxious bean or at the time o=
f the major cracks beginning.  Logic
>>>> tells me to record the time of =
the bunch beginning to crack, but I 
>>>> have certainly been wrong befor=
e.  Right now I am recording
>>>> both, on
>>>> as "errant little sucke=
r," and the other as "1st crack."
>>>> 
>>>> I am looking to see if the=
re is something I am doing to cause
>>>> this or
>>>> if it is the natu=
re of these wonderful beans, just to have one
>>>> ready
>>>> to go a b=
it early.  Since I know how wrong I can be on things I
>>>> thought I wou=
ld ask the brains and experience of this list to
>>>> help me
>>>> out =
on this one. 
>>>>
>>>> I just need guidance on which to record.
>>>>=
>>>> Thank you, in advance for your help once again.  I can't imagine
=
<Snip>
>>>> homeroast mailing list 
>>>>http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mail=man/listinfo/homeroast
>>>> To change your personal list settings (digest=
 options, vacations, 
>>>> unsvbscribes) go to
>>>>http://sweetmarias.=com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings
>>>
>>>= 
>>> homeroast mailing list
>>>http://lists.sw=eetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast
>>> To change your personal list=
 settings (digest options, vacations, 
>>> unsvbscribes) go to
>>> http=
://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings
>>>
>>>
>> 
>=
<Snip>
 mailing list
>http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast=
> To change your personal list settings (digest options, vacations,
> =
unsvbscribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/> maillistinfo.html#personals=
ettings 
homeroast m=
ailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo =
change your personal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes=
) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings


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