HomeRoast Digest


Topic: resting period (was 1st roast with IR2 ) (6 msgs / 335 lines)
1) From: Kevin Creason
 >  1. 1st roast with IR2 (Robert Gulley)
 >  Re: 1st roast with IR2 (Stephen Carey)
 >Found my logs, the Guatemala Chimeltenango - San Jose Ocano, is 
wonderful, even after 18 hours rest - I couldn't wait for 24 hours.
I'm not a expert, I've only been roasting since December-- Aromaroast, 
Popperies (I & II, mostly modified), and a modified IR2. I still don't 
yet know what my favorite roast color is-- it was French, but now its not.
I'm going to make two controversial statements-- and welcome feedback 
but no flames because I a definitely still a novice. Lead me to wisdom 
and understanding, not to the sale on fire retardant suits!
1. But I don't really buy into the resting period....  I don't think it 
improves the aroma or flavor to wait 24 or 48 hours.
So anyway, my questions is-- does the resting period play into "smoky" 
drum roasts more so than air roasts?
I have no experience with drum roasting, but it sure seems to me that my 
air-roasted coffee starts losing those interesting flavors the next day, 
certainly two days later. So maybe the resting period is more necessary 
for roasts in drums that need to desmokify themselves a little.
Someone close to me who will remain unpronouned and unnamed to protect 
myself maintains that brews from immediately roasted beans give her, 
um,  gas. I can't imagine that-- ground beans should be degassed. Right?
2. And I'm still not convinced that longer roasting is better with air 
roasters. That I'm sure shocks more experienced roasters.
But like the person with the recent post (sorry, forgot and deleted the 
message) my Popperies and even my IR2 roast so fast that I have had 
extremely difficult trouble getting long roast times without having 
flat/baked beans or charcoal.
That's why I made the hold down "spring" for my IR2's chaff collector 
without the top unit-- now I can move more air and get my roasts out to 
10 minutes and probably more. But I'm not sure its better-- I need more 
testing and comparisons to the super quick roasts in the various 
Popperies (under 7 minutes on the long side).
I have a Poppery I, that was pulling so much power that the power cord 
could burn me. Scary fire hazard indeed.... so I split the blower and 
heater on separate circuits with a dimmer switch on the blower and that 
seems to help, but still wasn't able to get roasts beyond 6 minutes 
without a whole lot of manual cycling of the heater on and off.
I have a Poppery II (all whitish, or was before the coffee oils) that 
blew beans everywhere so I did the soup can mod. I can extend roasts up 
to 6 minutes with I think 3 oz of beans, it might have been less to get 
it that long.
I have an all black Poppery II with no mods yet. I can extend roasts up 
to 6 minutes on 3 oz of beans with careful application and removal of 
the hood.
I haven't used the Aromaroast since winter when I had to put it in a box 
to get to Vienna. I made bad charcoal once and popped the thermal fuse, 
but I have replaced that.
All of these (except Aromaroast) will go to French or even Spanish in 6 
minutes before I started modifying and changing things around. Since 
I've started getting longer roasters I think I've lost some of those 
bright flavors, i.e., flat or baked.... or maybe not, maybe  I need to 
do a quick roast and compare bean to bean.
Help & insight, oh wise roasters, or agreement with my outlandish theories?

2) From: Kevin Creason
 >  1. 1st roast with IR2 (Robert Gulley)
 >  Re: 1st roast with IR2 (Stephen Carey)
 >Found my logs, the Guatemala Chimeltenango - San Jose Ocano, is 
wonderful, even after 18 hours rest - I couldn't wait for 24 hours.
I'm not a expert, I've only been roasting since December-- Aromaroast, 
Popperies (I & II, mostly modified), and a modified IR2. I still don't 
yet know what my favorite roast color is-- it was French, but now its not.
I'm going to make two controversial statements-- and welcome feedback 
but no flames because I a definitely still a novice. Lead me to wisdom 
and understanding, not to the sale on fire retardant suits!
1. But I don't really buy into the resting period....  I don't think it 
improves the aroma or flavor to wait 24 or 48 hours.
So anyway, my questions is-- does the resting period play into "smoky" 
drum roasts more so than air roasts?
I have no experience with drum roasting, but it sure seems to me that my 
air-roasted coffee starts losing those interesting flavors the next day, 
certainly two days later. So maybe the resting period is more necessary 
for roasts in drums that need to desmokify themselves a little.
Someone close to me who will remain unpronouned and unnamed to protect 
myself maintains that brews from immediately roasted beans give her, 
um,  gas. I can't imagine that-- ground beans should be degassed. Right?
2. And I'm still not convinced that longer roasting is better with air 
roasters. That I'm sure shocks more experienced roasters.
But like the person with the recent post (sorry, forgot and deleted the 
message) my Popperies and even my IR2 roast so fast that I have had 
extremely difficult trouble getting long roast times without having 
flat/baked beans or charcoal.
That's why I made the hold down "spring" for my IR2's chaff collector 
without the top unit-- now I can move more air and get my roasts out to 
10 minutes and probably more. But I'm not sure its better-- I need more 
testing and comparisons to the super quick roasts in the various 
Popperies (under 7 minutes on the long side).
I have a Poppery I, that was pulling so much power that the power cord 
could burn me. Scary fire hazard indeed.... so I split the blower and 
heater on separate circuits with a dimmer switch on the blower and that 
seems to help, but still wasn't able to get roasts beyond 6 minutes 
without a whole lot of manual cycling of the heater on and off.
I have a Poppery II (all whitish, or was before the coffee oils) that 
blew beans everywhere so I did the soup can mod. I can extend roasts up 
to 6 minutes with I think 3 oz of beans, it might have been less to get 
it that long.
I have an all black Poppery II with no mods yet. I can extend roasts up 
to 6 minutes on 3 oz of beans with careful application and removal of 
the hood.
I haven't used the Aromaroast since winter when I had to put it in a box 
to get to Vienna. I made bad charcoal once and popped the thermal fuse, 
but I have replaced that.
All of these (except Aromaroast) will go to French or even Spanish in 6 
minutes before I started modifying and changing things around. Since 
I've started getting longer roasters I think I've lost some of those 
bright flavors, i.e., flat or baked.... or maybe not, maybe  I need to 
do a quick roast and compare bean to bean.
Help & insight, oh wise roasters, or agreement with my outlandish theories?

3) From: miKe mcKoffee
Doesn't matter whether anyone agrees or disagrees with you, it's your
"home"roast for your consumption! Now for my "home"roast consumption I'd
generally disagree:-)
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
www.mcKonaKoffee.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
 
<Snip>

4) From: Stephen Carey
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Kevin, good question on number one.  I have no idea, but look forward 
to the answers.  I know that for me, the tastes I get from my IR2 are 
changing with each hour, or so it seems.  I have to say that most of 
my roasts have had a more "complete" taste with about 18 to 36 hours 
of rest.  Though, I love to taste it right after a roast.  My roasts 
are gone within about 72 hours, usually, so they stay quite 
good.  Even the one I ended up disliking, while those I gave it to or 
had over for a taste loved it.  I gave the rest away to a friend who 
really loved it.
As to your second statement, my roasts run as short as 6:30 and as 
long as 9:00.  I can't get much longer than that, at least not 
yet.  I do think that with the right profile and bean I can get to 10 
minutes, but I think it will be a dull and very dry bean.  Just my 
thoughts on this.
Stephen
At 07:43 PM 9/5/2007, you wrote:
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Kevin, good question on number one.  I have no idea,
but look forward to the answers.  I know that for me, the tastes I
get from my IR2 are changing with each hour, or so it seems.  I have
to say that most of my roasts have had a more "complete" taste
with about 18 to 36 hours of rest.  Though, I love to taste it right
after a roast.  My roasts are gone within about 72 hours, usually,
so they stay quite good.  Even the one I ended up disliking, while
those I gave it to or had over for a taste loved it.  I gave the
rest away to a friend who really loved it.
As to your second statement, my roasts run as short as 6:30 and as long
as 9:00.  I can't get much longer than that, at least not yet. 
I do think that with the right profile and bean I can get to 10 minutes,
but I think it will be a dull and very dry bean.  Just my thoughts
on this.
Stephen
At 07:43 PM 9/5/2007, you wrote:
>  1. 1st roast with IR2
(Robert Gulley)
>  Re: 1st roast with IR2 (Stephen Carey)
>Found my logs, the Guatemala Chimeltenango - San Jose Ocano, is
wonderful, even after 18 hours rest - I couldn't wait for 24
hours.
I'm not a expert, I've only been roasting since December-- Aromaroast,
Popperies (I & II, mostly modified), and a modified IR2. I still
don't yet know what my favorite roast color is-- it was French, but now
its not.
I'm going to make two controversial statements-- and welcome feedback but
no flames because I a definitely still a novice. Lead me to wisdom and
understanding, not to the sale on fire retardant suits!
1. But I don't really buy into the resting period....  I don't think
it improves the aroma or flavor to wait 24 or 48 hours.
So anyway, my questions is-- does the resting period play into
"smoky" drum roasts more so than air roasts?
I have no experience with drum roasting, but it sure seems to me that my
air-roasted coffee starts losing those interesting flavors the next day,
certainly two days later. So maybe the resting period is more necessary
for roasts in drums that need to desmokify themselves a little.
Someone close to me who will remain unpronouned and unnamed to protect
myself maintains that brews from immediately roasted beans give her,
um,  gas. I can't imagine that-- ground beans should be degassed.
Right?
2. And I'm still not convinced that longer roasting is better with air
roasters. That I'm sure shocks more experienced roasters.
But like the person with the recent post (sorry, forgot and deleted the
message) my Popperies and even my IR2 roast so fast that I have had
extremely difficult trouble getting long roast times without having
flat/baked beans or charcoal.
That's why I made the hold down "spring" for my IR2's chaff
collector without the top unit-- now I can move more air and get my
roasts out to 10 minutes and probably more. But I'm not sure its better--
I need more testing and comparisons to the super quick roasts in the
various Popperies (under 7 minutes on the long side).
I have a Poppery I, that was pulling so much power that the power cord
could burn me. Scary fire hazard indeed.... so I split the blower and
heater on separate circuits with a dimmer switch on the blower and that
seems to help, but still wasn't able to get roasts beyond 6 minutes
without a whole lot of manual cycling of the heater on and off.
I have a Poppery II (all whitish, or was before the coffee oils) that
blew beans everywhere so I did the soup can mod. I can extend roasts up
to 6 minutes with I think 3 oz of beans, it might have been less to get
it that long.
I have an all black Poppery II with no mods yet. I can extend roasts up
to 6 minutes on 3 oz of beans with careful application and removal of the
hood.
I haven't used the Aromaroast since winter when I had to put it in a box
to get to Vienna. I made bad charcoal once and popped the thermal fuse,
but I have replaced that.
All of these (except Aromaroast) will go to French or even Spanish in 6
minutes before I started modifying and changing things around. Since I've
started getting longer roasters I think I've lost some of those bright
flavors, i.e., flat or baked.... or maybe not, maybe  I need to do a
quick roast and compare bean to bean.
Help & insight, oh wise roasters, or agreement with my outlandish
theories?
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5) From: Les
I agree with Mike.  It is your roast Kevin.  I was a Poppery roaster
for over 16 years.  Some beans do need a good rest.  Have you tried a
Pacamara bean yet?  It has the most dramatic benefit from a good rest.
 If you are doing espresso, you will notice a big difference with a
good 3+ day rest.  I am not so sure you have your carmelization down
in your roast profiles.  Let me say, after a nice rest the
carmelization really begins to show itself.  My guess is you are
roasting darker than those of us who prefer to taste good
carmelization of the sugars rather than carbonization.  I don't know
how Mike McKoffee does it, but he roasts some of the richest most
nuanced coffee that I have experienced.  I would attribute it to good
carmelization.  You can do it in a popper, but it is easier to do in a
drum.  Mike does it in a Rosto.  The big problem is most folks don't
understand the conversion of sugars into caramization is what brings
out the special sweetness and flavors of the coffee.  I often get
questioned from people who drink my homeroast, "How much sugar did you
put in the coffee."  They can't believe that there isn't any sugar at
all.    So Kevin, "How sweet is your coffee?"  You are down from
French, how about moving down a bit more to city-full city?   You will
be amazed and stunned by the varietal flavors as well as the sweetness
of the brew!  How are you resting your coffee?  It needs to be rested
in a sealed container.  You want the CO2 to push out the O2 during the
resting period.  I let my coffee sit in a Tupperware container for 20
minutes to an hour after cool down and then I seal it for the resting
period.  In theory, the C02 being heavier than atmospheric air should
be pushing out the air before I cap it.  I also  use one-way valve
bags.  I have not been able to tell that one is better than the other.
 Let me just say, roasting is more than blasting heat into the bean
until it reaches a predetermined color.   This is where profiles
become so important, but that is a long discussion!
Les
On 9/5/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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6) From:
I roast with an air roaster (modified) and found too that if I make 1st crack happen after about 6 minutes or so, it tastes bad.  I shoot for 3-5 minutes, tastes good.
I've always thought air roasting with a long time  1s crack probably dries out the bean and messes up the chemistry& physics somehow.  I've actually had 2 roasts where I didn't get a single crack, even though the bean looked like FC+. Other roasters on the list have had the same thing happen. Drum roast would allow longer time to 1st without drying out the bean.  
TIM
---- Stephen Carey  wrote: 
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