HomeRoast Digest

Topic: POLL: was +The Fetishism of the Commodity, aka "Better than Thou" attitude (13 msgs / 302 lines)
1) From: Brett Mason
 I know this won't put this to bed, but I would like to run a poll.  Please
add your name and update the count and repost to list.  If you don't quite
fit into a category - DON"T VOTE, i.e. cheap blade to cheap burr with no
improvement, that kind of thing.  Heck, vote double and list your grinder
upgrade if you want.
"I upgraded from a 'cheap' grinder to a generally recognized 'good' grinder
and noticed a marked improvement in my coffee"
"I upgraded from a 'cheap' grinder to a generally recognized 'good' grinder
and did NOT notice any marked improvement in my coffee"
Coffee Improved:  3
Coffee did not improve: 0
Coffee Improved:
Alchemist John (whirly blade to Zass/Trosser)
Brett Mason
Coffee did not improve:

2) From: Laura Micucci
On 9/6/07, Brett Mason  wrote:
Laura Micucci (whirly to a Trosser)
Coffee did not improve:
Laura Micucci

3) From: Mike Koenig
OK, here's my input:
Coffee did improve:
Whirly blade to Melitta Burr Grinder
Melitta to Gaggia MM (all of the above tended to make fines)
Gaggia MM to Solis 166
ESPRESSO improved:
Solis 166 to Rocky
I honestly can't really say that my normal non-espresso coffee
improved with the Rocky.  I firmly beleive that what would be
considered the "minimum acceptable grinder" is quite a bit different
for espresso than for normal coffee.  I'd even go so far as to argue
that the high end grinders built for espresso (Mazzer's, Macap, etc)
can be a pain in the rear for normal coffee.
I'm planning to buy a Macap M4 (since Rocky has wobbly burrs),  but if
I didn't drink 95% of my coffee as espresso, I'd probably still be
using the Solis 166.
I also think that the post that started all of this was just RayO being silly.
On 9/6/07, Alchemist John  wrote:

4) From: miKe mcKoffee
Whirly to Braun Flat Burr (late '80s) - improvement in grind consistency and
Braun to Capresso 551 early '01(maybe improved, maybe not. 551 so messy used
for all of 3 days and went back to using worn out Braun and ordered
"expensive" grinder)
Braun burr/Capresso 551 to Solis Mulino 166 early '01 - drip improved, press
improved including fewer fines.
Solis Mulino to newly released Solis Maestro 12/01 - no improvement in grind
(same burr set), purchased for greater adjustablility, sold Mulino on eBay,
net cost Maestro upgrade $30. Silvia entered the picture 2 months later 2/02
and used Maestro. Less than 6 months later Maestro grind noticably
deteriorated. Replaced upper burr with little to no improvement. (Importer
Baratza only sold upper burr at that time)
Solis Maestro to Rocky 12/02 - very noticable improvement, esprecially
espresso but also all other brewing methods. Obviously not a fair comparison
IMO since Maestro burrs shot. IMO Solis grinders great for non-espresso
Rocky to Rocky new burrs sometime 04. Had noticed gradual decrease in grind
quality, especially harder to dial in finest grinds for restritto. Huge
improvement from burrs with approximately 150# usage to new burrs. Decided
on 75# max usage target for next burr change.
Rocky to Rocky new burr set #2 05 plus used Mazzer SJ inc. new burrs. Minor
but noticable improvement in Rocky's grind. Did not see much if any
difference in grind quality between Rocky with new burrs and SJ with new
burrs. Rocky mod'd with grinds dispenser tape mod (aka doser) much more
ergonomically friendly for multi-grind purpose use plus Rocky smaller for
limited counter space so continued using Rocky versus SJ. 
Rocky to Rocky new burr set #3 06, sold unused Mazzer4 SJ breaking even.
Rocky to Rocky new burr set #4 07. Espresso journey advanced to the point no
longer satisfied with Rocky's limited adjustability. Recently picked up
another used Mazzer SJ. Hate the Mazzer grinds dispenser aka doser. This
week received Mini-E doserless funnel for conversion to doserless, still
haven't figured out how to incorporate SJ into kitchen but limited SJ usage
fine tuning shot grind far better.
Also Zass Turkish '02 for travel and because looks cool:-)
Regardless the grinder if burrs not routinely replaced grind will
deteriorate over time. 
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/

5) From: Brian Kamnetz
"I upgraded from a 'cheap' grinder to a generally recognized 'good'
grinder (Zass) and noticed a marked improvement in my coffee".

6) From: Michael Dhabolt
On 9/6/07, Brett Mason  wrote:
Mike (just plain)

7) From: Brett Mason
Hi folks, perhaps all should make sure to use Derek's online Poll to account
for accurate results...
 + I thought it might be easier if there was a web poll to keep track of the
votes, to save everyone from trying to update the email as it filters
through the votes.
 + The poll is athttp://grinderpoll.blogspot.com/ + You can only vote once.  Of course, keep the comments coming on-list.  If
there's a problem with the poll, let me know.
 . . . . . . . No, I am not feeling vindicated...  I recognize some have had
bad spouts with the Zass - I just haven't been one of them ever....
On 9/6/07, Michael Dhabolt  wrote:

8) From: raymanowen
"...the post that started all of this was just RayO being silly."
The Hell, you say?
It amuses me to think of all I went through, learning about grinders when I
thought I was studying coffee and espresso brewing. The grinders taught me
that even the popular ones can thwart efforts to improve cup quality.
Happily, thanks to miKe, I saved a Ton of Wampum by purchasing a good
machine used, and just renewing the burr set.
If you live near rr tracks in the city, you can be first on the block to
have rolled coffee. Out in the country, it would tend to become similar to
FCC grounds.
Cheers and Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
On 9/6/07, Mike Koenig  wrote:
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976

9) From: Leo Zick
good from store ground to tranquilo
better from tranq to quickmill stepless
best from quickmill to macap stepless
On 9/6/07, Sandy Andina  wrote:

10) From: Larry Johnson
Stephen, I don't want to steer you wrong or anything but the last time I had
any Harrar Horse, I accidentally let an ounce or so sit (in an airtight
container, of course) for almost 2 weeks. When I found it, I brewed a cup
and it had the most intense blueberry aroma/flavor I could ever hope for.
That was the 1st and only time I've gotten blueberries, btw, which tells you
how good a roaster I am (not).
Anyway, I think Gin had a similar experience and thought you might want to
try it if you're willing to risk staling an ounce of HH, that is.
Happy roasting,
On 9/7/07, Stephen Carey  wrote:
Larry J

11) From: raymanowen
Do two roasts, one that you store and consume normally, and another
that you store at least 7 days in a closed Mason (Kerr?) fruit jar
before starting consumption.
When you first unseal the fruit jar, you will get the most pleasant
the roasted beans. It's dense, so it displaces the oxygen, O2, that
would combine with the hydrocarbon compounds that comprise the beans
and oils.
Fairly soon after roasting, the evolving CO2 will slightly pressurize
the jar. It won't hurt anything to slightly crack the lid open and let
a little of the aroma escape from time to time. The dense CO2 will be
in the lower strata of the jar, and the imperfect seal of the lid will
allow the O2 at the top to escape slowly as pressure pushes the seal off its seat.
If the lid doesn't spring up when you push it in the center, the beans
have stopped evolving CO2. They're not getting stale at this point, because they're
sitting in a puddle of CO2 that excludes O2. If Oxygen can't get to
the beans/ oils, it can't oxidize them and they won't stale.
Don't pour the beans out- dip them as if you were dipping them out of water.
Cheers and Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
If you don't use a Spinet Grinder, I hope so.
On 9/7/07, Stephen Carey  wrote:

12) From: Lynne Biziewski
O.K., now I have to try this. I have some in my 'stash' - I'll roast a
little, let it sit a couple of weeks & see what happens.
On 9/7/07, Stephen Carey  wrote:
Sometimes we are lucky enough to know that our lives have been changed, to
discard the old, embrace the new, and run headlong down an immutable course.
Jacques Cousteau

13) From: raymanowen
Try sampling your Roast A within a week, and Roast B after a 7 day
rest. Waiting two weeks to sample, you might miss something special
that develops as a result of your personal technique.
If you let it rest in a sealed container, like a baby food jar or
Mason fruit jar, don't uncap it and pour a few beans out unless you
use the whole batch at once for brewing. All the CO2 will pour out
just like water and be replaced by Oxygen. Hydrocarbons and Oxygen
love each other, but their offspring are not lovable...
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
On 9/7/07, Lynne Biziewski  wrote:
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the
Mighty Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976

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