HomeRoast Digest


Topic: How much gas is in the beans (11 msgs / 229 lines)
1) From: Bruess, Don
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Hi all,
I took a pound of one of my favorites (COE) and roasted last weekend.
Once it cooled I decided to try vacuum packing it to check the
difference in flavor. Well to my great surprise when I retrieved the
coffee from the storage place the vacuum had not only gone away but the
bad the coffee was vacuumed in was blown up and as tight as a balloon. 
My questions are 
1 does this sound normal  
2 have I hurt the roasted coffee.
Thanks for comments.
Don 

2) From: Brett Mason
1.  OUTGASSING is normal for roasted coffee beans... so yes, NORMAL
2.  DOESN'T hurt the beans at all (it's normal)
Another process that might work better is:
  Roast
  Cool
  Rest in a Mason jar with a sealed lid
  Daily open the lid to allow gasses to escape
  On the 3rd day, transfer to a bag for sealing
It's often the 3rd day that makes such a difference!
Brett
On 9/7/07, Bruess, Don  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

3) From: Floyd Lozano
I've wondered if keeping the beans under pressure does hurt them - how much
pressure would be necessary for example, to keep the CO2 from leaving the
beans?  I haven't done the experiment.  It's possible that there's no way to
really keep the CO2 in there (the chemical processes keep going and shedding
CO2 and it takes a lot more than pressure to keep the CO2 bound up, for
example).  Chime in, chemists!
-F
On 9/7/07, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>

4) From: stereoplegic
hey Tom, Brett's trying to sell his jars on the list!
Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>

5) From: Brett Mason
Actually I am contacting my attorney to seek remittance from all the MASON
jars bought and sold without my permission...  COuld be one heck of an
award!
B....
On 9/7/07, stereoplegic  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

6) From: Vicki Smith
It's interesting to hear (read?) you say that, Brett. I've noticed that 
some beans I enjoy from the get go, which for me is the day after I 
roast them, through to the end (almost always less than a week),  just 
don't do it for me on day three. I've often wondered if there is a 
specific chemically thing that is more present in day three beans--sorta 
more available in the grounds before disappearing the next day.
vicki
Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>

7) From: JanoMac
 Regarding the "process" of resting,
Vicki wonders:
<Snip>
Vicki, Thank you for "wondering." It is a trait that seems to be going by
the wayside in our culture.
To answer the question posed by your wondering:
Short answer: Yes.
Longer answer: The bean you roast is altered chemically as well as
physically by the heating process.
Biochemistry Lesson One:
Remember the bean is a reproductive structure. Inside is a tiny plant embryo
that can grow a coffee plant. The bean is a storage container for all the
chemicals & nutrients this embryo needs to grow and develop until it can
peek its own leaves out into the world and start doing photosynthesis. The
biological chemicals in the bean of immediate interest to us include
carbohydrates, lipids (fats & oils), and proteins. There are other
chemicals, certainly, and they play a role in flavor, etc., but their
chemistry is a bit difficult to plumb in a moderately short e-mail.
Biochemistry Lesson Two:
The complex carbohydrates (polysaccharides or "starches") that the embryo
uses for energy are made of long chains of simple sugars (like glucose and
fructose) linked together end to end or side to side. When heated during
roasting, these long chains of sugars are broken into shorter chains. The
embryo does this with enzymes; you do it with heat.
After the roast stops, these broken chains continue to denature or break
apart even further over time into shorter and shorter chains until they are
sugars you already know - like maltose, sucrose -  and some other somewhat
longer oligosaccharides. These short-chain sugars taste "sweet," "malty,"
or, if slightly "burned" by the high temperatures of our roasting of the
bean, they may even taste "caramelly" to us.
So resting allows time for these carbohydrates to continue to fall apart and
make sweeter sugars in the bean. The level of sweetness often increases for
about a week, then the sugars start to be broken apart by other chemical
activity in the bean that results in poor flavor and less sweetness.
Biochemistry Lesson Three:
The same kind of thing is happenening with the lipids and proteins. The
lipids (fats and oils) can also lend sweetness, are partially responsible
for the fruitiness in some beans, and play a role in mouthfeel (waxy, silky,
heavy, etc.). When they are left to denature too long, the fatty acids that
make up the lipids begin to form ugly-tasting compounds that many would
characterize as "rancid."
When you add to the chemical mix the other chemicals (lignins, polyphenols,
aldehydes, and so on) within the bean and also allow them to chemically
change or react with other chemicals over time, you can see that a very
complex set of changes can take place from the time you stop the roast until
the time you finally grind and brew the coffee.
Kirk
(Resident lover of coffee embryos)

8) From: Robert Gulley
Kirk
A big THANK YOU for a clear and concise explanation of this process 
(I realize it is far more complex). Thank you also for putting it in 
layman's terms that I can understand and follow. This is exactly the 
kind of "help" I desire from the combined knowledge and wisdom of 
this group! You've made my day!
Robert
At 01:24 PM 9/8/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>

9) From: Larry Johnson
Kirk;
A big 'ditto' from me on Robert's response. I'm used to this kind of
discussion in the beer brewing group, and had wondered why it never seemed
to come out here; the discussion of the biochemistry of what's going on. I
like learning the details of things. The Zen-like approach is fun, but so is
the science. Thanks, that was great reading.
On 9/8/07, Robert Gulley <2bopen4all> wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Larry J

10) From: mirrera
Kirk,
I have to express similar sentiment regarding your posts.
I've just come home after being away for about a week, and have read through the 700+ messages in the list from that time (minus posts from a few people which I delete without reading).  There were a few of interest to me on the grinding topics, and of course I enjoy trying to decipher RayO's, but yours stood out as being the best--for me--from that period.
Not only did I learn something from them, they were enjoyable to read, without any of the pedantic "look how much I know" that often accompanies posts from some of the more scientifically-oriented listgoers.
So, thanks, and keep posting.
-AdkMike
From: homeroast-admin [mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Larry Johnson
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 2:11 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +How much gas is in the beans
Kirk;
A big 'ditto' from me on Robert's response. I'm used to this kind of discussion in the beer brewing group, and had wondered why it never seemed to come out here; the discussion of the biochemistry of what's going on. I like learning the details of things. The Zen-like approach is fun, but so is the science. Thanks, that was great reading. 
On 9/8/07, Robert Gulley <2bopen4all> wrote:
Kirk
A big THANK YOU for a clear and concise explanation of this process (I realize it is far more complex). Thank you also for putting it in layman's terms that I can understand and follow. This is exactly the kind of "help" I desire from the combined knowledge and wisdom of this group! You've made my day!
Robert

11) From: Cookie (Ann-Marie)
My husband is an Intellectual Property Attorney, always happy to take on cr=
ackpot clients, as long as they are willing to pay his brand new Crackpot C=
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----- Original Message ----
From: Brett Mason 
To: homeroast
Sent: Friday, Sept=
ember 7, 2007 10:37:49 AM
Subject: Re: +How much gas is in the beans
=
Actually I am contacting my attorney to seek remittance from all the =
MASON jars bought and sold without my permission...  COuld be one heck of a=
n award!
 
B....
 
On 9/7/07, stereoplegic    Rest in a Mason jar with a sealed lid=
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-- 
Cheers,
Brett=http://homeroast.freeservers.com


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