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Topic: Harar Horse and coffee amount (12 msgs / 735 lines)
1) From: Stephen Carey
Hi.  Okay, I have two questions, both of which may seem dumb, but I 
am curios to see if I am correct or a complete idiot.
I roasted 5.5 oz of Harar Horse per suggestions for Tom's write 
ups.  That has let me to two questions:
1) Tom mentions that there may be a few beans, one or two, which 
resist roast.  I had three.  This just seems impossible to me.  I am 
applying heat, a reaction must occur, correct?  Does it occur inside 
and we can't see it, in which case why throw it out?  If we leave the 
beans in will they add a new flavor, on the positive side?  I just 
don't get how they can not roast when being hit with 450F for a 
couple of minutes, my hands do holding down the dryer house.
2) Please don't kill me on this one.  It seems that since I have been 
roasting I have slowly been cutting back on the amount of coffee I 
use to better taste the subtle flavors.  Someone gave me a wonderful 
and expensive gift.  It is a all steal measuring spoon for fresh 
coffee.  Built into the handle is a squeeze handle that has teeth and 
goes over the bag of coffee to keep it fresh, should the plastic lock 
not work.  This is a measure built for mugs versus dainty cups of 
coffee.  I have noticed that I am slowly bringing down the coffee 
amount to what I called normal.
When I couldn't get fresh roasted coffee and resorted to a can (yes, 
I did, but forgive my past sins, please) I would use almost a full, 
rounded scoop for every mug just to try to get flavor out of it.  It 
never really worked, I just got more bad coffee flavor.
Roasting my own, I cut back the first time, and as I continue I find 
I am cutting back and now settling at an amount of coffee that seems 
to blossom in the mug, does this make sense?
Am I going nuts or does better coffee mean I don't have to over 
caffeinate myself just to get favor?
Stephen

2) From: Stephen Carey
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Hi.  Okay, I have two questions, both of which may seem dumb, but I 
am curios to see if I am correct or a complete idiot.
I roasted 5.5 oz of Harar Horse per suggestions for Tom's write 
ups.  That has let me to two questions:
1) Tom mentions that there may be a few beans, one or two, which 
resist roast.  I had three.  This just seems impossible to me.  I am 
applying heat, a reaction must occur, correct?  Does it occur inside 
and we can't see it, in which case why throw it out?  If we leave the 
beans in will they add a new flavor, on the positive side?  I just 
don't get how they can not roast when being hit with 450F for a 
couple of minutes, my hands do holding down the dryer house.
2) Please don't kill me on this one.  It seems that since I have been 
roasting I have slowly been cutting back on the amount of coffee I 
use to better taste the subtle flavors.  Someone gave me a wonderful 
and expensive gift.  It is a all steal measuring spoon for fresh 
coffee.  Built into the handle is a squeeze handle that has teeth and 
goes over the bag of coffee to keep it fresh, should the plastic lock 
not work.  This is a measure built for mugs versus dainty cups of 
coffee.  I have noticed that I am slowly bringing down the coffee 
amount to what I called normal.
When I couldn't get fresh roasted coffee and resorted to a can (yes, 
I did, but forgive my past sins, please) I would use almost a full, 
rounded scoop for every mug just to try to get flavor out of it.  It 
never really worked, I just got more bad coffee flavor.
Roasting my own, I cut back the first time, and as I continue I find 
I am cutting back and now settling at an amount of coffee that seems 
to blossom in the mug, does this make sense?
Am I going nuts or does better coffee mean I don't have to over 
caffeinate myself just to get favor?
Stephen 
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Hi.  Okay, I have two questions, both of which may seem
dumb, but I am curios to see if I am correct or a complete
idiot.
I roasted 5.5 oz of Harar Horse per suggestions for Tom's write
ups.  That has let me to two questions:
1) Tom mentions that there may be a few beans, one or two, which resist
roast.  I had three.  This just seems impossible to me.  I
am applying heat, a reaction must occur, correct?  Does it occur
inside and we can't see it, in which case why throw it out?  If we
leave the beans in will they add a new flavor, on the positive
side?  I just don't get how they can not roast when being hit with
450F for a couple of minutes, my hands do holding down the dryer
house.
2) Please don't kill me on this one.  It seems that since I have
been roasting I have slowly been cutting back on the amount of coffee I
use to better taste the subtle flavors.  Someone gave me a wonderful
and expensive gift.  It is a all steal measuring spoon for fresh
coffee.  Built into the handle is a squeeze handle that has teeth
and goes over the bag of coffee to keep it fresh, should the plastic lock
not work.  This is a measure built for mugs versus dainty cups of
coffee.  I have noticed that I am slowly bringing down the coffee
amount to what I called normal.
When I couldn't get fresh roasted coffee and resorted to a can (yes, I
did, but forgive my past sins, please) I would use almost a full, rounded
scoop for every mug just to try to get flavor out of it.  It never
really worked, I just got more bad coffee flavor.
Roasting my own, I cut back the first time, and as I continue I find I am
cutting back and now settling at an amount of coffee that seems to
blossom in the mug, does this make sense?
Am I going nuts or does better coffee mean I don't have to over
caffeinate myself just to get favor?
Stephen
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3) From: Jim Gundlach
On Sep 16, 2007, at 9:51 AM, Stephen Carey wrote:
<Snip>
    I have had the bean or two that seemed to resist roasting  
before.  I cull them to keep the sour taste out of the cup.
<Snip>
     I usually make espresso so I can't really answer this part.
         pecan jim
P.S.  Glad the list is back up

4) From: Robert Gulley
Stephen
What is the profile you are using on your IR2 for the Harar Horse? I 
have been enjoying that coffee myself (2 roasts with it so far). I 
would like to do a third roast trying your settings just to see the 
difference it makes.
I have been using Tom's suggested times that came on the tip sheet, 
and stopping it with about a minute to go.
Thanks, in advance,
RG
At 10:51 AM 9/16/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>

5) From: Stephen Carey
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I use my profile 6, which I cut short if I need to do so.  I left 
time on the end to let me play a bit.  Here goes and I am sure 
roasters with more experience will have better profiles, I am still 
playing, finding mine, trying new ones.  But this worked very well 
each time I roasted it.
Stephen's Profile 6 (NOT TO BE WORSHIPED BY ANY MEANS) 340f for 2:40; 
395F for 3:25; 450F for 2:20 for a total time of 8:25.  On two roasts 
the crack came at 6:00 and 5:58 but the roasts ran shorter than the 
8:25, the went to 7:25 and 7:28.  The last roast a few weeks later 
was basically the same, all going for City+ to FC.  From the color, 
time, smell and bean crunch, plus the brewed flavor they seem to have 
been very close to what I wanted.
I am NOT an expert, the last was roast 29, but I think you could 
start with here on an IR2 and have it be a safe starting point.  I am 
SURE I got my numbers from one of many people here who posted it, 
though at the same time I was doing my best as I roasted to dial in 
and I did find that with this profile the roast only went 7:25 or so.
Does any of that make sense?
Stephen
At 06:46 AM 9/18/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>
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I use my profile 6, which I cut short if I need to do
so.  I left time on the end to let me play a bit.  Here goes
and I am sure roasters with more experience will have better profiles, I
am still playing, finding mine, trying new ones.  But this worked
very well each time I roasted it.
Stephen's Profile 6 (NOT TO BE WORSHIPED BY ANY MEANS) 340f for 2:40;
395F for 3:25; 450F for 2:20 for a total time of 8:25.  On two
roasts the crack came at 6:00 and 5:58 but the roasts ran shorter than
the 8:25, the went to 7:25 and 7:28.  The last roast a few weeks
later was basically the same, all going for City+ to FC.  From the
color, time, smell and bean crunch, plus the brewed flavor they seem to
have been very close to what I wanted.
I am NOT an expert, the last was roast 29, but I think you could start
with here on an IR2 and have it be a safe starting point.  I am SURE
I got my numbers from one of many people here who posted it, though at
the same time I was doing my best as I roasted to dial in and I did find
that with this profile the roast only went 7:25 or so.
Does any of that make sense?
Stephen
At 06:46 AM 9/18/2007, you wrote:
Stephen
What is the profile you are using on your IR2 for the Harar Horse? I have
been enjoying that coffee myself (2 roasts with it so far). I would like
to do a third roast trying your settings just to see the difference it
makes.
I have been using Tom's suggested times that came on the tip sheet, and
stopping it with about a minute to go.
Thanks, in advance,
RG
At 10:51 AM 9/16/2007, you wrote:
Hi.  Okay, I have two
questions, both of which may seem dumb, but I am curios to see if I am
correct or a complete idiot.
I roasted 5.5 oz of Harar Horse per suggestions for Tom's write
ups.  That has let me to two questions:
1) Tom mentions that there may be a few beans, one or two, which resist
roast.  I had three.  This just seems impossible to me.  I
am applying heat, a reaction must occur, correct?  Does it occur
inside and we can't see it, in which case why throw it out?  If we
leave the beans in will they add a new flavor, on the positive
side?  I just don't get how they can not roast when being hit with
450F for a couple of minutes, my hands do holding down the dryer
house.
2) Please don't kill me on this one.  It seems that since I have
been roasting I have slowly been cutting back on the amount of coffee I
use to better taste the subtle flavors.  Someone gave me a wonderful
and expensive gift.  It is a all steal measuring spoon for fresh
coffee.  Built into the handle is a squeeze handle that has teeth
and goes over the bag of coffee to keep it fresh, should the plastic lock
not work.  This is a measure built for mugs versus dainty cups of
coffee.  I have noticed that I am slowly bringing down the coffee
amount to what I called normal.
When I couldn't get fresh roasted coffee and resorted to a can (yes, I
did, but forgive my past sins, please) I would use almost a full, rounded
scoop for every mug just to try to get flavor out of it.  It never
really worked, I just got more bad coffee flavor.
Roasting my own, I cut back the first time, and as I continue I find I am
cutting back and now settling at an amount of coffee that seems to
blossom in the mug, does this make sense?
Am I going nuts or does better coffee mean I don't have to over
caffeinate myself just to get favor?
Stephen
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6) From: Ken Mary
<Snip>
In my experience, a slower roast will turn those light colored beans as dark
as the rest of the roast and mute the sour or sulfury smell. You can give
the light beans a chew, or break and smell, to see if you want them in your
cup.
<Snip>
I use about 8.7 to 9 grams per 12 oz water for my cowboy coffee. This is
only slightly more than I started with many years ago using grocery store
beans. Different methods have different extraction efficiencies, so use what
you need to get the flavors you want.
On a related note, I had been getting roasts that were strangely weak,
presumably baked, even though the ramp rates were within the normal range. I
made a profile change to increase the ramp into first crack, and also raised
the changeover temperature where heat reduction for the finish ramp begins.
I believe the most important is the changeover temperature, previously 190C
bean temp, now 205C where the initial pop of first is expected. This solved
both the weakness problem and the missing brightness problem. My old
familiar Sumatrans and Colombians have returned, bright, slightly sparkly on
the tongue, and even more depth of flavor.
The roast profile can determine the amount of coffee you need for a
satisfying cup.
--

7) From: Stephen Carey
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Ken, that is intriguing about the profile potentially determining the 
amount of coffee I need for a satisfying cup.
I will never learn all of this, it can be overwhelming, but, oh, so fun.
Stephen
At 07:48 AM 9/18/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>
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Ken, that is intriguing about the profile potentially
determining the amount of coffee I need for a satisfying cup.
I will never learn all of this, it can be overwhelming, but, oh, so
fun.
Stephen
At 07:48 AM 9/18/2007, you wrote:
>From: Stephen Carey
> 1) Tom mentions that there may be a few beans, one or two, which
resist
> roast.  I had three.  This just seems impossible to
me.  I am applying
> heat, a reaction must occur, correct?  Does it occur inside and
we can't
In my experience, a slower roast will turn those light colored beans as
dark
as the rest of the roast and mute the sour or sulfury smell. You can
give
the light beans a chew, or break and smell, to see if you want them in
your
cup.
> 2) Please don't kill me on this one.  It seems that since I
have been
> roasting I have slowly been cutting back on the amount of coffee I
use to
> better taste the subtle flavors.
I use about 8.7 to 9 grams per 12 oz water for my cowboy coffee. This
is
only slightly more than I started with many years ago using grocery
store
beans. Different methods have different extraction efficiencies, so use
what
you need to get the flavors you want.
On a related note, I had been getting roasts that were strangely
weak,
presumably baked, even though the ramp rates were within the normal
range. I
made a profile change to increase the ramp into first crack, and also
raised
the changeover temperature where heat reduction for the finish ramp
begins.
I believe the most important is the changeover temperature, previously
190C
bean temp, now 205C where the initial pop of first is expected. This
solved
both the weakness problem and the missing brightness problem. My old
familiar Sumatrans and Colombians have returned, bright, slightly sparkly
on
the tongue, and even more depth of flavor.
The roast profile can determine the amount of coffee you need for a
satisfying cup.
--
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8) From: Les
Jeff,
What you are experiencing is normal.  I think we all adjust our coffee
levels, and you are right, when the cup cools you get at least 3
different flavor experiences!  As the beans mature you will get
different experiences.  Today I am having Harar Green Strip and the
blueberry is wonderful.  Those beans that don't roast are not mature
beans.  If you cook a green tomato, it doesn't turn red!  It may have
a good taste, but not the same taste as a red one.  I usually cull the
really light colored beans from my Dry Processed coffees.  I leave the
off color ones for flavor enhancement.
Les
On 9/17/07, Jeff Anderson  wrote:
<Snip>

9) From: W. Simon
Stephen,
Here is my input:
1) There are almost defective beans in the coffee.  Harar Horses are
notorious for having many.  I still have some of the much applauded Harar
Horse Lot #30.  There are always yellow beans that don't roast and maybe a
couple that, for some reason, over-roast.  Even when these are removed, the
resulting roast is UGLY!  When it comes to these coffees, the result is in
the cup, not in appearance of the roast.  Last night I roasted two pounds of
Nicaraguan Java Longberry.  The roast is very even, the uniformity of the
appearance is fantastic.  Another coffee that produces a beautiful
appearance is Uganda Bugisu.  All three of these are fantastic coffees.
But, I have not had a single Ethiopian coffee that produced a beautiful
appearance.  The beauty of an Ethiopian coffee is in the cup!
2) A scoop will work, but a scoop measures a volume.  The desired method is
to measure your coffee by weight.  The weight of a City roast coffee will
differ from the weight of a Full City+ roast given the same volume.  The
difference is probably minimal, but it is different.  I put 48 oz of water
in my Technivorm.  I put in 7 grams of coffee per 6 oz cup of water.  So, I
weigh out 56 grams of coffee on the scales.  Yes, the scales are another
expense.  The scales offer consistency.  I find the consistency worth the
expense.
Wes
On 9/16/07, Stephen Carey  wrote:
<Snip>

10) From: Stephen Carey
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Thank you for the lesson.  I really like what you said about the 
Technivorm.  That is my Christmas hope for a gift if people go in 
together.  Thank you for taking the time to answer me.
Stephen
At 09:41 AM 9/18/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>
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Thank you for the lesson.  I really like what you said
about the Technivorm.  That is my Christmas hope for a gift if
people go in together.  Thank you for taking the time to answer
me.
Stephen
At 09:41 AM 9/18/2007, you wrote:
Stephen,
Here is my input:
1) There are almost defective beans in the coffee.  Harar Horses are
notorious for having many.  I still have some of the much applauded
Harar Horse Lot #30.  There are always yellow beans that don't roast
and maybe a couple that, for some reason, over-roast.  Even when
these are removed, the resulting roast is UGLY!  When it comes to
these coffees, the result is in the cup, not in appearance of the
roast.  Last night I roasted two pounds of Nicaraguan Java
Longberry.  The roast is very even, the uniformity of the appearance
is fantastic.  Another coffee that produces a beautiful appearance
is Uganda Bugisu.  All three of these are fantastic coffees. 
But, I have not had a single Ethiopian coffee that produced a beautiful
appearance.  The beauty of an Ethiopian coffee is in the cup!
2) A scoop will work, but a scoop measures a volume.  The desired
method is to measure your coffee by weight.  The weight of a City
roast coffee will differ from the weight of a Full City+ roast given the
same volume.  The difference is probably minimal, but it is
different.  I put 48 oz of water in my Technivorm.  I put in 7
grams of coffee per 6 oz cup of water.  So, I weigh out 56 grams of
coffee on the scales.  Yes, the scales are another expense. 
The scales offer consistency.  I find the consistency worth the
expense. 
Wes
On 9/16/07, Stephen Carey
<steve
> wrote:
Hi.  Okay, I have two questions, both of which may seem dumb,
but I
am curios to see if I am correct or a complete idiot.
I roasted 5.5 oz of Harar Horse per suggestions for Tom's write
ups.  That has let me to two questions: 
1) Tom mentions that there may be a few beans, one or two, which
resist roast.  I had three.  This just seems impossible to
me.  I am
applying heat, a reaction must occur, correct?  Does it occur
inside
and we can't see it, in which case why throw it out?  If we
leave the 
beans in will they add a new flavor, on the positive side?  I
just
don't get how they can not roast when being hit with 450F for a
couple of minutes, my hands do holding down the dryer house.
2) Please don't kill me on this one.  It seems that since I have
been 
roasting I have slowly been cutting back on the amount of coffee
I
use to better taste the subtle flavors.  Someone gave me a
wonderful
and expensive gift.  It is a all steal measuring spoon for
fresh
coffee.  Built into the handle is a squeeze handle that has
teeth and 
goes over the bag of coffee to keep it fresh, should the plastic
lock
not work.  This is a measure built for mugs versus dainty cups
of
coffee.  I have noticed that I am slowly bringing down the
coffee
amount to what I called normal. 
When I couldn't get fresh roasted coffee and resorted to a can
(yes,
I did, but forgive my past sins, please) I would use almost a
full,
rounded scoop for every mug just to try to get flavor out of
it.  It 
never really worked, I just got more bad coffee flavor.
Roasting my own, I cut back the first time, and as I continue I
find
I am cutting back and now settling at an amount of coffee that
seems
to blossom in the mug, does this make sense? 
Am I going nuts or does better coffee mean I don't have to over
caffeinate myself just to get favor?
Stephen
homeroast mailing list
http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change your personal list settings (digest options, vacations,
unsvbscribes) go to
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--=====================_149378531==.ALT--

11) From: Robert Gulley
Thanks - I appreciate the info. I have been using Tom's numbers as a 
starting point, and I have been happy with my roasting thus far - 5 
roasts total. But I thought this would be a good roast to experiment 
with by trying some other profiles, and what you are using seems 
reasonable to me. I will let you know how it turns out!
RG
At 07:44 AM 9/18/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>

12) From: True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
"...I have not had a single Ethiopian coffee that produced a beautiful
appearance.  The beauty of an Ethiopian coffee is in the cup!"
 
Very well put, and most accurate!
 
Dennis


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