HomeRoast Digest


Topic: BYO Joe to restaurants? (34 msgs / 1429 lines)
1) From: Sandy Andina
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Sorry, but that's where I draw the line.  To me, asking for hot water  
(presumably for free) and then making my own drink with my own  
supplies at the table is not snobbish, it's just plain poor manners.   
I have a friend and sometimes traveling companion who prides herself  
on avoiding having to pay for any cold beverage but instead asks the  
waitress for some lemon wedges for her water.  Now, as many places  
will put a citrus slice in the tapwater as an amenity anyway, they  
usually graciously comply with her request at no charge. But then  
when the server leaves, she squeezes a bunch of lemon slices into her  
water, pulls out several packets of Splenda and makes her own  
lemonade--without paying a cent. (I usually want to sink into the  
floor if anyone notices at that point). To me, that's like declining  
to order an appetizer and then asking for hot water and ketchup to  
make tomato soup at table, or hauling lunchmeat or peanut butter out  
of one's purse and putting it between slices of bread from the  
breadbasket to make a freebie sandwich when there is a menu available.
No, if the freshness of the establishment's coffee is unacceptable,  
the proper thing to do would be to decline to order coffee--and then  
either make your own off-site if and when you have access to a water- 
heating source or, if you don't have that access, purchase your  
coffee drink at an establishment that meets your standards.
To do otherwise is not, IMHO, snobbish, it's arguably boorish--and  
gives the impression of proud parsimony.  It's akin to insisting on  
drinking your own wine in a non-BYOB restaurant that does not  
normally provide for that with a corkage fee.
Sorry for playing Emily Post here, but that's how my mom brought me up.
On Sep 18, 2007, at 10:06 AM, Jim Gundlach wrote:
I sometimes tote a basic coffee making setup with me and when the  
wait person asks me if I want coffee, I will ask when were the beans  
roasted.  When they  they don't know, I will ask for hot water and  
pull out the Aeropress and Zass.
       pecan jim
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
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Sorry, but that's where I draw the =
line.  To me, asking for hot water (presumably for free) and then =
making my own drink with my own supplies at the table is not snobbish, =
it's just plain poor manners.  I have a friend and sometimes traveling =
companion who prides herself on avoiding having to pay for any cold =
beverage but instead asks the waitress for some lemon wedges for her =
water.  Now, as many places will put a citrus slice in the tapwater as =
an amenity anyway, they usually graciously comply with her request at no =
charge. But then when the server leaves, she squeezes a bunch of lemon =
slices into her water, pulls out several packets of Splenda and makes =
her own lemonade--without paying a cent. (I usually want to sink into =
the floor if anyone notices at that point). To me, that's like declining =
to order an appetizer and then asking for hot water and ketchup to make =
tomato soup at table, or hauling lunchmeat or peanut butter out of one's =
purse and putting it between slices of bread from the breadbasket to =
make a freebie sandwich when there is a menu available.
No, if =
the freshness of the establishment's coffee is unacceptable, the proper =
thing to do would be to decline to order coffee--and then either make =
your own off-site if and when you have access to a water-heating source =
or, if you don't have that access, purchase your coffee drink at an =
establishment that meets your standards.  
To do =
otherwise is not, IMHO, snobbish, it's arguably boorish--and gives the =
impression of proud parsimony.  It's akin to insisting on drinking =
your own wine in a non-BYOB restaurant that does not normally provide =
for that with a corkage fee.
Sorry for playing Emily Post here, but that's how my =
mom brought me up.On Sep =
18, 2007, at 10:06 AM, Jim Gundlach wrote:I sometimes tote a =
basic coffee making setup with me and when the wait person asks me if I =
want coffee, I will ask when were the beans roasted.  When they  =
they don't know, I will ask for hot water and pull out the Aeropress and =
Zass.        pecan jim 
 Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-45--677983900--

2) From: gin
Sandy:
Frankly I think you are way over the top with this one...
put your periscope down woman!
Who cares what the other patrons are doing at another table. I would much rather smell some great roasted coffee then smell cigarettes or listen to screaming little, misbehaved children.
I also suggest you stop traveling with your "friend" (read hopefully she does not belong to this list.)  Bring a bag-o-lemons along to lunch next time you meet with her, simply say you just left the farmers market and thought of her...
hell you won't even have to ask for a knife to cut them with unless you go to the palace-o-plastic food buffet.
ginny
---- Sandy Andina  wrote: 
<Snip>

3) From: Sandy Andina
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On Sep 19, 2007, at 2:46 PM, gin wrote:
<Snip>
Ginny, that wasn't my point.  One goes into a restaurant to purchase  
the food and drink they offer, not to use it as one would a school  
lunchroom, hospital cafeteria or picnic ground.   I'm glad that Steve  
and others on this list have encountered establishments that are  
sufficiently laid-back to not get bent out of shape when patrons  
consume food there that they did not buy there, but that is the  
restaurant's own policy decision to make; to impose that policy on a  
restaurant without consulting them first--i.e., brown-bagging in  
whole or in part--is boorish.  If you don't like what's on the menu,  
you shouldn't order it; and should either order something else, order  
nothing for that particular course, or go somewhere else that either  
offers what you want, allows you to b.y.o., or whose intended purpose  
is to accommodate consuming one's self-provided refreshments.
As to cigarette smoke and screaming kids, we're talking apples and  
bunny rabbits here.  Who *doesn't* like the smell of wonderful  
coffee, no matter who provides it? That's beside the point. The  
behavior I decried does not offend patrons, it offends and cheats the  
establishment--and THAT is why I find it embarrassing:  that one  
person implicates by association everyone else in the party (or at  
least the host) in her or his improper behavior unless those of us in  
the party express our disapproval, which in turn hurts the  
"offender's" feelings and is therefore itself inconsiderate.  It thus  
places everyone who "plays by the rules" in an uncomfortable position.
I cannot avoid traveling with the person I described--she is a  
bandmate. Maybe it's a cultural difference, but flaunting one's  
thriftiness (she never fails to vociferously congratulate herself on  
her "ingenuity" and "beating the system" when she does this) is,  
IMHO, a no-no (and for the record, I belong to an ethnic group that  
is often stereotyped as stingy, and she does not!).
In the Brooklyn neighborhood where I grew up (not affluent nor even  
middle-income), it was considered extremely gauche to trick-or-treat  
outside one's immediate neighborhood, once one had reached young  
adulthood (unless for a little child in tow who cannot yet ask for  
his or her own stuff), or at stores or other businesses. Here in  
Chicago, we see families in SUVs drive on to our block from other  
neighborhoods, older teens without so much as masks (never mind  
costumes) ask for goodies not just for themselves but for their "baby- 
momma," and going from store to store--and the stores and even  
offices provide candy, expecting them. So maybe it is a regional  
cultural difference, but my inner radar tells me what does and  
doesn't seem right, wherever you come from.
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
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On Sep 19, 2007, at 2:46 PM, gin wrote:

Who cares what the other = patrons are doing at another table. I would much rather smell some great = roasted coffee then smell cigarettes or listen to screaming little, = misbehaved children.

Ginny, that wasn't my = point.  One goes into a restaurant to purchase the food and drink they = offer, not to use it as one would a school lunchroom, hospital cafeteria = or picnic ground.   I'm glad that Steve and others on this list have = encountered establishments that are sufficiently laid-back to not get = bent out of shape when patrons consume food there that they did not buy = there, but that is the restaurant's own policy decision to make; to = impose that policy on a restaurant without consulting them first--i.e., = brown-bagging in whole or in part--is boorish.  If you don't like = what's on the menu, you shouldn't order it; and should either order = something else, order nothing for that particular course, or go = somewhere else that either offers what you want, allows you to b.y.o., = or whose intended purpose is to accommodate consuming one's = self-provided refreshments.
As to cigarette smoke and = screaming kids, we're talking apples and bunny rabbits here.  Who = *doesn't* like the smell of wonderful coffee, no matter who provides it? = That's beside the point. The behavior I decried does not offend patrons, = it offends and cheats the establishment--and THAT is why I find it = embarrassing:  that one person implicates by association everyone else = in the party (or at least the host) in her or his improper behavior = unless those of us in the party express our disapproval, which in turn = hurts the "offender's" feelings and is therefore itself inconsiderate. =  It thus places everyone who "plays by the rules" in an uncomfortable = position.
I = cannot avoid traveling with the person I described--she is a bandmate. = Maybe it's a cultural difference, but flaunting one's thriftiness (she = never fails to vociferously congratulate herself on her "ingenuity" and = "beating the system" when she does this) is, IMHO, a no-no (and for the = record, I belong to an ethnic group that is often stereotyped as stingy, = and she does not!).
In the Brooklyn = neighborhood where I grew up (not affluent nor even middle-income), it = was considered extremely gauche to trick-or-treat outside one's = immediate neighborhood, once one had reached young adulthood (unless for = a little child in tow who cannot yet ask for his or her own stuff), or = at stores or other businesses. Here in Chicago, we see families in SUVs = drive on to our block from other neighborhoods, older teens without so = much as masks (never mind costumes) ask for goodies not just for = themselves but for their "baby-momma," and going from store to = store--and the stores and even offices provide candy, expecting them. So = maybe it is a regional cultural difference, but my inner radar tells me = what does and doesn't seem right, wherever you come = from. Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-47--674575301--

4) From: Jim Gundlach
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On Sep 19, 2007, at 2:28 PM, Sandy Andina wrote:
<Snip>
Your presumption is wrong.  And even if they do charge for the water  
I leave a supplemental tip under the hot water container just so the  
wait person .  If I am going out and spend $50 to $70 for an  
excellent meal, I don't want to ruin it with bad coffee.  Someday, I  
hope to be able to go to a decent restaurant and get a decent cup of  
coffee to accompany dessert.  Until then, I am not going to have an  
incomplete dining experience just to please some little miss manners.
       pecan jim
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On Sep 19, 2007, =
at 2:28 PM, Sandy Andina wrote:
Sorry, but that's where I draw the line.  To me, asking for = hot water (presumably for free) and then making my own drink with my own = supplies at the table is not snobbish, it's just plain poor = manners. Your = presumption is wrong.  And even if they do charge for the water I = leave a supplemental tip under the hot water container just so the wait = person .  If I am going out and spend $50 to $70 for an excellent = meal, I don't want to ruin it with bad coffee.  Someday, I hope to be = able to go to a decent restaurant and get a decent cup of coffee = to accompany dessert.  Until then, I am not going to have an = incomplete dining experience just to please some little miss = manners.
  =     pecan jim = --Apple-Mail-2--673944017--

5) From: Tom Ulmer
If the coffee is that bad get the desert to go and leave. I will typically
go out of my way to buck authority except when it's poor etiquette. It makes
for a more polite society.

6) From: Stephen Carey
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Sandy,
Since my name was brought up, let me make a point here.  I was 
speaking of myself.  In this restaurant people walk in with Big 
Gulps, coffee, sodas and the like all of the time.  And at the coffee 
shop across the street people will come with carry out breakfast from 
the restaurant across the street and have coffee and their breakfast, 
even though they sell food.  It is a two way, kind of community 
thing.  The entire street is that way.  Were I in any other place I 
doubt I would do it, I am sure I wouldn't unless I asked.
My point was that the fact that I did it, disregarding the other 
people, now a coffee snob.  To some extent yes.  Coffee is now a very 
important part of my meal, as are other things.  So, if I think I am 
going to want to end an nice evening out with coffee I will ask all 
to make plans to hit one of the coffee shops for dessert or suggest a 
place with good coffee.
That was my point, in that place, at that time, had I gone over the 
comical side of being a coffee snob, not a boorish snob, and their is 
a difference.
As for someone making coffee in a nice place, or even not so nice 
place that doesn't have that policy, I don't see it happening, not me.
I will say that many times I have seen women bring their own tea 
bags, usually a specialty brand and put it in hot water.  Once I saw 
a lady asked to be charged for the tea, she was not.  I am not 
familiar enough with teas to know what is so special about certain 
types but I would say it is like coffee to us.  Just a guess.
But I have learned one thing about me for NOW, only for now.  I can't 
do the travel routine.  With what I do and how my mornings go, I 
can't possibly add anything extra to my morning.  Can't be done.  One 
day I may find a way to do it and I will look on this trip, but I run 
a show crew of thirty, we have entertainers and speakers and hosts 
and scripts and videos and all of that, I just can't add the extra 
bandwidth to make my own coffee, plus I need a massive amount while 
at the convention center or other venue, I will be forced to drink 
what is there, usually a $ and at 5:00, after I am dressed and know 
the crew is moving, I am having some of it with a ton of soy to make 
my doctor happy and to cover the taste.  That's just how I am.  I 
hope to find the room to do it, but not now.  I can get it there, 
just ship with everything else we ship, including suites and clothes 
(not all).  That solves that problem.  It comes down to having the 
mental capacity to add anything to the mind and not endangering the show.
Stephen
At 04:25 PM 9/19/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>
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Sandy,
Since my name was brought up, let me make a point here.  I was
speaking of myself.  In this restaurant people walk in with Big
Gulps, coffee, sodas and the like all of the time.  And at the
coffee shop across the street people will come with carry out breakfast
from the restaurant across the street and have coffee and their
breakfast, even though they sell food.  It is a two way, kind of
community thing.  The entire street is that way.  Were I in any
other place I doubt I would do it, I am sure I wouldn't unless I
asked.
My point was that the fact that I did it, disregarding the other people,
now a coffee snob.  To some extent yes.  Coffee is now a very
important part of my meal, as are other things.  So, if I think I am
going to want to end an nice evening out with coffee I will ask all to
make plans to hit one of the coffee shops for dessert or suggest a place
with good coffee.
That was my point, in that place, at that time, had I gone over the
comical side of being a coffee snob, not a boorish snob, and their is a
difference.
As for someone making coffee in a nice place, or even not so nice place
that doesn't have that policy, I don't see it happening, not me. 
I will say that many times I have seen women bring their own tea bags,
usually a specialty brand and put it in hot water.  Once I saw a
lady asked to be charged for the tea, she was not.  I am not
familiar enough with teas to know what is so special about certain types
but I would say it is like coffee to us.  Just a guess.
But I have learned one thing about me for NOW, only for now.  I
can't do the travel routine.  With what I do and how my mornings go,
I can't possibly add anything extra to my morning.  Can't be
done.  One day I may find a way to do it and I will look on this
trip, but I run a show crew of thirty, we have entertainers and speakers
and hosts and scripts and videos and all of that, I just can't add the
extra bandwidth to make my own coffee, plus I need a massive amount while
at the convention center or other venue, I will be forced to drink what
is there, usually a $ and at 5:00, after I am dressed and know the crew
is moving, I am having some of it with a ton of soy to make my doctor
happy and to cover the taste.  That's just how I am.  I hope to
find the room to do it, but not now.  I can get it there, just ship
with everything else we ship, including suites and clothes (not
all).  That solves that problem.  It comes down to having the
mental capacity to add anything to the mind and not endangering the
show.  
Stephen
 
At 04:25 PM 9/19/2007, you wrote:
On Sep 19, 2007, at 2:46 PM, =
gin
wrote:
Who cares what the other patron=
s
are doing at another table. I would much rather smell some great roasted
coffee then smell cigarettes or listen to screaming little, misbehaved
children.Ginny, that wasn't my
point.  One goes into a restaurant to purchase the food and drink
they offer, not to use it as one would a school lunchroom, hospital
cafeteria or picnic ground.   I'm glad that Steve and others on
this list have encountered establishments that are sufficiently laid-back
to not get bent out of shape when patrons consume food there that they
did not buy there, but that is the restaurant's own policy decision to
make; to impose that policy on a restaurant without consulting them
first--i.e., brown-bagging in whole or in part--is boorish.  If you
don't like what's on the menu, you shouldn't order it; and should either
order something else, order nothing for that particular course, or go
somewhere else that either offers what you want, allows you to b.y.o., or
whose intended purpose is to accommodate consuming one's self-provided
refreshments.
As to cigarette smoke and screaming kids, we're talking apples and bunny
rabbits here.  Who *doesn't* like the smell of wonderful coffee, no
matter who provides it? That's beside the point. The behavior I decried
does not offend patrons, it offends and cheats the establishment--and
THAT is why I find it embarrassing:  that one person implicates by
association everyone else in the party (or at least the host) in her or
his improper behavior unless those of us in the party express our
disapproval, which in turn hurts the "offender's" feelings and
is therefore itself inconsiderate.  It thus places everyone who
"plays by the rules" in an uncomfortable position.
I cannot avoid traveling with the person I described--she is a bandmate.
Maybe it's a cultural difference, but flaunting one's thriftiness (she
never fails to vociferously congratulate herself on her
"ingenuity" and "beating the system" when she does
this) is, IMHO, a no-no (and for the record, I belong to an ethnic group
that is often stereotyped as stingy, and she does not!).
In the Brooklyn neighborhood where I grew up (not affluent nor even
middle-income), it was considered extremely gauche to trick-or-treat
outside one's immediate neighborhood, once one had reached young
adulthood (unless for a little child in tow who cannot yet ask for his or
her own stuff), or at stores or other businesses. Here in Chicago, we see
families in SUVs drive on to our block from other neighborhoods, older
teens without so much as masks (never mind costumes) ask for goodies not
just for themselves but for their "baby-momma," and going from
store to store--and the stores and even offices provide candy, expecting
them. So maybe it is a regional cultural difference, but my inner radar
tells me what does and doesn't seem right, wherever you come
from.
Sandy

www.sandyandina.com

www.sass-music.com
--=====================_61328062==.ALT--

7) From: W. Simon
I, too, find it offensive.  I have a friend that ordered french fries in a
steak place and proceeded to throw them, one-by-one, on the floor when they
weren't to his satisfaction.  Needless to say, this kind of behavior is
unacceptable to me.  I now decline when the friend requests that we go out
to eat.  He is free to make as big a fool of himself as he likes; it will
simply be in my absence.  I would treat someone in the same manner if they
were to bring their own coffee or make lemonade out of extra lemons.
I know people that would complain if the mint leaf is a little off center
just so that they could negotiate a partially or fully free meal.  This
leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I would not make it a point for them to change their behavior.  Oh no, they
are free to behave any way that they find acceptable to themselves.
However, I would politely decline to join them in the future and I would let
them know why as gently as possible.
Wes
On 9/19/07, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>

8) From: John Brown
you are asking for a service the cafe or restaurant does not normally 
provide. one should  pay for that service and then tip the wait person. 
you want to be paid for your services so do the cafe owners.  it costs 
them to provide the service to you in wages paid and utilities paid. 
and  time taken thus degrading the service offered to the other 
patrons.  bottom line it cost money.
<Snip>

9) From: gin
Sandy:
OK, I clearly understand what you are saying but when you add
<Snip>
I really disagree with you Sandy; so ya got one kinky, eccentric person at your table, get over it. It is not rude to the freaking establishment or they would say something. Your friend thinks she is really getting away with something, so what, pat her on the back and say cool. Perhaps after a few pats on the back about her free lemonade she will not mention it again or you need to get a skin a bit thicker then the lemons she steals!!
In reality Sandy that particular place or any place like it tosses more food away each day then they would/could ever give her in a few lemon slices and they know it. So you guys leave and the waitperson says, did ya check the kinky one and her lemons!!?? So what??
Her thing with not paying for "garden variety drinks" is not taking a thing away from you unless you let it and it seems you do...
places I frequent seem to always have one or two patrons doing their own thing. I have a dear friend who takes her own food and expects it to be cooked to her order!! It gets cooked to her order...
cool down, let these folks brew a few cups at their table. It is not stealing from the place for god sake.
ginny
---- Sandy Andina  wrote: 
<Snip>

10) From: Scot Murphy
On Sep 19, 2007, at 3:28 PM, Sandy Andina wrote:
<Snip>
Perfectly said.
Scot "using the salad fork" Murphy
--
"The term 'free market' is really a euphemism. What the far right  
actually means by this term is 'lawless market.' In a lawless market,  
entrepreneurs can get away with privatizing the benefits of the  
market  (profits), while socializing its costs (like pollution)."
	--Steve Kangas

11) From: Rich
Well, Sandy, that was the way I was raised also.  I concur with your analysis, just boorish behavior.
--Original Message Text---
From: Sandy Andina
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 14:28:17 -0500
Sorry, but that's where I draw the line.  To me, asking for hot water (presumably for free) and 
then making my own drink with my own supplies at the table is not snobbish, it's just plain 
poor manners.  I have a friend and sometimes traveling companion who prides herself on 
avoiding having to pay for any cold beverage but instead asks the waitress for some lemon 
wedges for her water.  Now, as many places will put a citrus slice in the tapwater as an 
amenity anyway, they usually graciously comply with her request at no charge. But then when 
the server leaves, she squeezes a bunch of lemon slices into her water, pulls out several 
packets of Splenda and makes her own lemonade--without paying a cent. (I usually want to 
sink into the floor if anyone notices at that point). To me, that's like declining to order an 
appetizer and then asking for hot water and ketchup to make tomato soup at table, or hauling 
lunchmeat or peanut butter out of one's purse and putting it between slices of bread from the 
breadbasket to make a freebie sandwich when there is a menu available. 
No, if the freshness of the establishment's coffee is unacceptable, the proper thing to do 
would be to decline to order coffee--and then either make your own off-site if and when you 
have access to a water-heating source or, if you don't have that access, purchase your 
coffee drink at an establishment that meets your standards.   
To do otherwise is not, IMHO, snobbish, it's arguably boorish--and gives the impression of 
proud parsimony.  It's akin to insisting on drinking your own wine in a non-BYOB restaurant 
that does not normally provide for that with a corkage fee. 
Sorry for playing Emily Post here, but that's how my mom brought me up. 
On Sep 18, 2007, at 10:06 AM, Jim Gundlach wrote: 
I sometimes tote a basic coffee making setup with me and when the wait person asks me if I 
want coffee, I will ask when were the beans roasted.  When they  they don't know, I will ask 
for hot water and pull out the Aeropress and Zass.   
      pecan jim 
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com

12) From: jim jordan
Pecan Jim wrote "Someday, I hope to be able to go to a decent restaurant an=
d get a decent cup of coffee to accompany dessert.  Until then, I am not go=
ing to have an incomplete dining experience just to please some little miss=
 manners."
I was eating last week in a truly exceptional restaurant in=
 Chicago, Alinea, rated the best restaurant in the country this year by Gou=
rmet magazine.  Came time for the last few desserts (its a very good place)=
 and they asked if we wanted coffee.  I said "sure" and the waiter asked wh=
at kind I wanted, they had  Guatamalan, Ethiopian and several others.  I se=
ttled for a Tres Ritos Columbian.  The waiter knew about the different coff=
ees and characteristics. It was from Intellegencia Roasters and they brough=
t a full sized French Press pot (lovely silver) to our table.  I don't reca=
ll ever being given a choice of premium coffee before at a top ranked resta=
urant.  It cost $24 for the pot (did I mention that Alinea, in addition to =
being a wonderful restaurant , is a bit pricey?) but when one is spending $=
500 bucks for a dinner for two, who counts another twenty bucks or so?  Nic=
e finish to an incredible meal.
Be well
Jim Jordan
=
----- Original Message ----
From: Jim Gundlach =
To: homeroast
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 200=
7 2:35:37 PM
Subject: Re: +Re: BYO Joe to restaurants?
On Sep =
19, 2007, at 2:28 PM, Sandy Andina wrote:
Sorry, but that's where I=
 draw the line.  To me, asking for hot water (presumably for free) and then=
 making my own drink with my own supplies at the table is not snobbish, it'=
s just plain poor manners.
Your presumption is wrong.  And even if =
they do charge for the water I leave a supplemental tip under the hot water=
 container just so the wait person .  If I am going out and spend $50 to $7=
0 for an excellent meal, I don't want to ruin it with bad coffee.  Someday,=
 I hope to be able to go to a decent restaurant and get a decent cup of cof=
fee to accompany dessert.  Until then, I am not going to have an incomplete=
 dining experience just to please some little miss manners.
      p=
ecan jim

13) From: Brett Mason
Sounds awesome...  I don't ever expect I will spend such money for a meal
for two....
Gunna settle for a side of beef, organic corn fed, 4H raised, converted into
235lb of steaks, ribs, roasts & ground....  alas, it'll be more like $700,
but will last longer...
I bet yours was tastier!
...but not the second night, the third night, the fourth... the hundredth
night... and I'll have a little left still...
Cheers,
Brett
On 9/19/07, jim jordan  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

14) From: Barry Luterman
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I had a Thanksgiving turkey like that I think it was a 200 lb. bird. I =
think it was Dorothy Parker who once said, "Eternity is defined as two =
people and a ham."

15) From: Homeroaster
I had some great homeroast already brewed and it was tasting really good, 
but I wanted to go into a local coffeehouse to work on some paperwork.  I 
took my own brew in, but let the worker know I had my own and would be 
putting the equivalent of the cost of a coffee and a tip in his tip jar.  He 
was very OK with that, and I got to drink better coffee.  So the only one 
out was the shop owner.  Not so.  I was a good enough customer that the 
owner really just needed to take a little loss that day to keep me happy. 
He'll get it back from me many times over in the years to come.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

16) From: Robert Yoder
A friend of mine had a restaurant for awhile.  He reported that a group too=
k a table, ordered glasses of house wine and then refilled them from a scre=
w-top bottle of wine they had brought in, concealed in an oversize purse on=
e carried, and kept under the table.  He wanted to charge them for Screwage=
.
 
robert yoder
From: rich-mail: homeroast: Re: =
+Re: BYO Joe to restaurants?Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 18:52:16 -0500Well, Sand=
y, that was the way I was raised also. I concur with your analysis, just bo=
orish behavior.--Original Message Text---From: Sandy AndinaDate: Wed, 19 Se=
p 2007 14:28:17 -0500Sorry, but that's where I draw the line. To me, asking=
 for hot water (presumably for free) and then making my own drink with my o=
wn supplies at the table is not snobbish, it's just plain poor manners. I h=
ave a friend and sometimes traveling companion who prides herself on avoidi=
ng having to pay for any cold beverage but instead asks the waitress for so=
me lemon wedges for her water. Now, as many places will put a citrus slice =
in the tapwater as an amenity anyway, they usually graciously comply with h=
er request at no charge. But then when the server leaves, she squeezes a bu=
nch of lemon slices into her water, pulls out several packets of Splenda an=
d makes her own lemonade--without paying a cent. (I usually want to sink in=
to the floor if anyone notices at that point). To me, that's like declining=
 to order an appetizer and then asking for hot water and ketchup to make to=
mato soup at table, or hauling lunchmeat or peanut butt er out of one's pur=
se and putting it between slices of bread from the breadbasket to make a fr=
eebie sandwich when there is a menu available. No, if the freshness of the =
establishment's coffee is unacceptable, the proper thing to do would be to =
decline to order coffee--and then either make your own off-site if and when=
 you have access to a water-heating source or, if you don't have that acces=
s, purchase your coffee drink at an establishment that meets your standards=
. To do otherwise is not, IMHO, snobbish, it's arguably boorish--and gives =
the impression of proud parsimony. It's akin to insisting on drinking your =
own wine in a non-BYOB restaurant that does not normally provide for that w=
ith a corkage fee. Sorry for playing Emily Post here, but that's how my mom=
 brought me up. On Sep 18, 2007, at 10:06 AM, Jim Gundlach wrote: I sometim=
es tote a basic coffee making setup with me and when the wait person asks m=
e if I want coffee, I will ask when were the beans roasted. When they they =
don't know, I will ask for hot water and pull out the Aeropress and Zass. p=
ecan jim Sandywww.sandyandina.comwww.sass-music.com
Can you find the hidden words?  Take a break and play Seekadoo!http://club.live.com/seekadoo.aspx?icid=seek_wlmailtextlink=

17) From: Brett Mason
Sounds like an absolutely correct assessment...
Don't get me wrong - I like the idea of a fine coffee after dinner.  Perhaps
a more appropriate method might be to talk to the manager prior, asking
whether a pot of hot water might be ordered in order to brew some homeroast
coffee at the table....  At such point, there's no surprise and everything
is above board...
To me the issue has to do with expectations and presumption, and recognition
that the restaurant is someone else's venue...
OK, so just my 2cents...
Brett
On 9/19/07, Robert Yoder  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

18) From: Sandy Andina
--Apple-Mail-62--642267513
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset-ASCII;
	delsp=yes;
	format=flowed
It IS an amazing place, isn't it? I've followed its chef Grant Achatz  
since he ran the kitchen at Trio in Evanston and took cutting-edge  
experimental cuisine to the next level. A sad irony is that he was  
recently diagnosed with oral (tongue, I think) cancer, an awful thing  
for any gastronome, much less the best young chef in America.
On Sep 19, 2007, at 8:52 PM, jim jordan wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
--Apple-Mail-62--642267513
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charsetO-8859-1
It IS an amazing place, isn't it? I've followed its chef Grant Achatz =
since he ran the kitchen at Trio in Evanston and took cutting-edge =
experimental cuisine to the next level. A sad irony is that he was =
recently diagnosed with oral (tongue, I think) cancer, an awful thing =
for any gastronome, much less the best young chef in =
America.
On Sep 19, 2007, at 8:52 PM, jim jordan =
wrote:
Pecan Jim = wrote "Someday, I hope to be able to go to a decent restaurant and = get a decent cup of coffee to accompany dessert.  Until then, I am = not going to have an incomplete dining experience just to please some = little miss manners." I was eating = last week in a truly exceptional restaurant in Chicago, Alinea, rated = the best restaurant in the country this year by Gourmet magazine.  = Came time for the last few desserts (its a very good place) and they = asked if we wanted coffee.  I said "sure" and the waiter asked what = kind I wanted, they had  Guatamalan, Ethiopian and several others.  = I settled for a Tres Ritos Columbian.  The waiter knew about the = different coffees and characteristics. It was from Intellegencia = Roasters and they brought a full sized French Press pot (lovely = silver) to our table.  I don't recall ever being given a choice of = premium coffee before at a top ranked restaurant.  It cost $24 for the = pot (did I mention that Alinea, in addition to being a wonderful = restaurant , is a bit pricey?) but when one is spending $500 bucks for = a dinner for two, who counts another twenty bucks or so?  Nice finish = to an incredible meal. Be = wellJim Jordan  ----- Original Message = ---- From: Jim Gundlach <pecanjim> T= o: homeroast= s.com Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 2:35:37 PM Subject: = Re: +Re: BYO Joe to restaurants? On Sep 19, 2007, at 2:28 PM, Sandy Andina = wrote:
Sorry, but that's where I draw the line.  To me, asking for hot = water (presumably for free) and then making my own drink with my own = supplies at the table is not snobbish, it's just plain poor = manners. Your presumption is wrong.  And even if they do = charge for the water I leave a supplemental tip under the hot water = container just so the wait person .  If I am going out and spend $50 = to $70 for an excellent meal, I don't want to ruin it with bad coffee.  = Someday, I hope to be able to go to a decent restaurant and get a = decent cup of coffee to accompany dessert.  Until then, I am not = going to have an incomplete dining experience just to please some little = miss manners.
     =  pecan jim
Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-62--642267513--

19) From: miKe mcKoffee
Jeeze, I HATE to agree with Brett!-) But that is exactly what I've done on
multiple special occasion dinners out at multiple fine dining establishments
over the years. Call ahead and discuss it. I do the same checking for
alcohol free Ariel wine being carried or for BYOB. 
I also always send a cup to the chef and/or owner, most often receiving rave
thank-yous. On more than one occasion also ended up making additional pots
for people at other tables with the establishments blessings!
One chef/owner I did this with has since taken up home roasting. Two fine
dining restaurants now offer a selection of alcohol free Ariel wines.
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
www.mcKonaKoffee.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/	From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Brett Mason
	Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 9:48 PM
	
	Sounds like an absolutely correct assessment...
	
	Don't get me wrong - I like the idea of a fine coffee after dinner.
Perhaps a more appropriate method might be to talk to the manager prior,
asking whether a pot of hot water might be ordered in order to brew some
homeroast coffee at the table....  At such point, there's no surprise and
everything is above board... 
	
	To me the issue has to do with expectations and presumption, and
recognition that the restaurant is someone else's venue...
	
	OK, so just my 2cents...
	Brett

20) From: Jeff Anderson
In an atmosphere like Stephen describes I don't see a problem, but in a 
more traditional restaurant setting it seems boorish to me.
A friend went to dinner with a couple he knows. After the food arrived 
she complained until they agreed to bring her another dinner. When they 
started to take the first one away, she asked for a doggie bag "since 
you're just going to throw it away anyway." They don't have a dog. She 
takes it home and eats it later. He said she does this on a regular basis.
miKe mcKoffee wrote:
<Snip>

21) From: Brett Mason
Wow - if I were the owner, I would execute on my reserved right to serve
refuse...  SURPRISE in your doggie bag!  Fifi doesn't mind the snif, it's
Millie ya gotta wonder about...
Brett
  Any particular agreement with Mike is merely an accident, and does not
represent collusion by either party!
On 9/20/07, Jeff Anderson  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

22) From: Rich
I would be surprised if any business would turn you down flat on a request to bring your own coffee, 
regardless of whether or not they actually approved.  It is the nature of people in the service industry 
to be accommodating, even when they would rather not.
On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 23:32:23 -0400, Homeroaster wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings

23) From: Rich
Yep, screwage. good idea.  That should be listed right on the menu along with the ill mannered child 
tax.  The ill mannered child tax applies regardless of the age.  Then there is the phone booth charge.
--Original Message Text---
From: Robert Yoder
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:33:31 -0700
.hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } 
A friend of mine had a restaurant for awhile.  He reported that a group took a table, ordered glasses of 
house wine and then refilled them from a screw-top bottle of wine they had brought in, concealed in 
an oversize purse one carried, and kept under the table.  He wanted to charge them for Screwage.
robert yoder
From: rich-mail
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Re: BYO Joe to restaurants?
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 18:52:16 -0500
Well, Sandy, that was the way I was raised also. I concur with your analysis, just boorish behavior.
--Original Message Text---
From: Sandy Andina
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 14:28:17 -0500
Sorry, but that's where I draw the line. To me, asking for hot water (presumably for free) and 
then making my own drink with my own supplies at the table is not snobbish, it's just plain 
poor manners. I have a friend and sometimes traveling companion who prides herself on 
avoiding having to pay for any cold beverage but instead asks the waitress for some lemon 
wedges for her water. Now, as many places will put a citrus slice in the tapwater as an 
amenity anyway, they usually graciously comply with her request at no charge. But then when 
the server leaves, she squeezes a bunch of lemon slices into her water, pulls out several 
packets of Splenda and makes her own lemonade--without paying a cent. (I usually want to 
sink into the floor if anyone notices at that point). To me, that's like declining to order an 
appetizer and then asking for hot water and ketchup to make tomato soup at table, or hauling 
lunchmeat or peanut butt er out of one's purse and putting it between slices of bread from 
the breadbasket to make a freebie sandwich when there is a menu available. 
No, if the freshness of the establishment's coffee is unacceptable, the proper thing to do 
would be to decline to order coffee--and then either make your own off-site if and when you 
have access to a water-heating source or, if you don't have that access, purchase your 
coffee drink at an establishment that meets your standards. 
To do otherwise is not, IMHO, snobbish, it's arguably boorish--and gives the impression of 
proud parsimony. It's akin to insisting on drinking your own wine in a non-BYOB restaurant 
that does not normally provide for that with a corkage fee. 
Sorry for playing Emily Post here, but that's how my mom brought me up. 
On Sep 18, 2007, at 10:06 AM, Jim Gundlach wrote: 
I sometimes tote a basic coffee making setup with me and when the wait person asks me if I 
want coffee, I will ask when were the beans roasted. When they they don't know, I will ask for 
hot water and pull out the Aeropress and Zass. 
pecan jim 
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
Can you find the hidden words?  Take a break and play Seekadoo! Play now! 

24) From: Rich
I agree with Mike McK that this is the proper way to handle bringing something special into a 
restaurant.
On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 22:45:19 -0700, miKe mcKoffee wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings

25) From: Rich
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 05:21:34 -0400, Jeff Anderson wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>

26) From: Rich
oops, twitchy SEND finger.
The sad thing here is the "friend" would see nothing at all wrong with this behavior if she was 
challenged on it.
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 05:21:34 -0400, Jeff Anderson wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>

27) From: Justin Marquez
Been a while since we had a good food fight in here....
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)

28) From: Les
Wow,  Jim said, "It cost $24 for the pot (did I mention that Alinea, in
addition to being a wonderful restaurant , is a bit pricey?) but when one is
spending $500 bucks for a dinner for two, who counts another twenty bucks or
so?"    And people complain about the cost of a grinder?  I think the next
time I would take her to McDonald's and spend the rest on a good grinder!
Les
On 9/20/07, Jeff Anderson  wrote:
<Snip>

29) From: Brett Mason
Naw - go drop a C-note at a nice restaurant, and see what you can buy for
$424....
Brett
On 9/20/07, Les  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

30) From: TERRY TITSWORTH
On 9/20/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
Only thing I've taken to a restaurant is a bag of homegrown peppers for my
steak in a Mexican place. I always brought enough to share with the cook and
owner.
TerryT
       From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Brett Mason
       Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 9:48 PM
       Sounds like an absolutely correct assessment...
       Don't get me wrong - I like the idea of a fine coffee after dinner.
Perhaps a more appropriate method might be to talk to the manager prior,
asking whether a pot of hot water might be ordered in order to brew some
homeroast coffee at the table....  At such point, there's no surprise and
everything is above board...
       To me the issue has to do with expectations and presumption, and
recognition that the restaurant is someone else's venue...
       OK, so just my 2cents...
       Brett-- 
Start HOT and work your way Down...
Peppers AND Coffee.
[|:{O....[|:{U...
(I'm the tall guy in the middle)

31) From: Angelo
If it's really about having a great cup of coffee with your meal, 
just pay for a cup of coffee, tell them to hold the coffee and bring 
the cup. Now, pour your home-brewed coffee into the cup and everyone is happy.
As to the people who think they are getting over on the restaurants, 
I wonder how much they enjoy the taste of the cook/wait-staff's 
spittle in their food...  I, personally, wouldn't take that chance.
A
<Snip>

32) From: True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
A few on this list may remember that while I was in Cyprus Last October
I sat  down out side a local Starbucks (outdoor cafe style) and just
ordered hot water from inside when it came I proceded to use my
Aeropress to make a cup of coffee from my stach that I had roasted a few
days before.. -ok here is where the story gets good- the manager came
out to inquire as to what I was doing, I proceded to explain that about
how I roasted my own coffee and I was making a cup I offered a cup to
him he gladly accepted and after just one taste agreed that my coffee
was better than anything he had ever tasted and much better than what
*$'s was selling I stayed there or close by most of the afternoon and
didn't have any problems at all.  
Dennis 
AKA 
FC1(SW/AW) Dennis W. True 
Safety Dept 
USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69) 
FPO AE 09532-2830 
 
 
	 
	Only thing I've taken to a restaurant is a bag of homegrown
peppers for my steak in a Mexican place. I always brought enough to
share with the cook and owner.
	 
	TerryT
	
	       From: homeroast-admin
	[mailto:homeroast-admin ] On Behalf Of
Brett Mason
	       Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 9:48 PM
	
	       Sounds like an absolutely correct assessment...
	
	       Don't get me wrong - I like the idea of a fine coffee
after dinner. 
	Perhaps a more appropriate method might be to talk to the
manager prior,
	asking whether a pot of hot water might be ordered in order to
brew some
	homeroast coffee at the table....  At such point, there's no
surprise and 
	everything is above board...
	
	       To me the issue has to do with expectations and
presumption, and
	recognition that the restaurant is someone else's venue...
	
	       OK, so just my 2cents...
	       Brett-- 
	Start HOT and work your way Down...
	Peppers AND Coffee. 
	[|:{O....[|:{U...
	
	(I'm the tall guy in the middle) 

33) From: Lynne Biziewski
Spew alert!!! Ha!
Lynne
A friend of mine had a restaurant for awhile.  He reported that a group took
<Snip>

34) From: Lynne Biziewski
Wow - two things. First, it's awful that Starbucks has spread to a beautiful
place like Cyprus. But on the other hand,
it sounds like you ended up having a wonderful experience (and showed the
manager that everyone in the US doesn't
live off of Starbucks!)
Lynne
On 9/20/07, True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)  wrote:
<Snip>


HomeRoast Digest