HomeRoast Digest


Topic: It's dead, Jim (was Re: +Livia might finally be OK) (6 msgs / 545 lines)
1) From: Sandy Andina
--Apple-Mail-29--928390039
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset-ASCII;
	delsp=yes;
	format=flowed
Well, we're throwing in the towel. Came into the shop right on time,  
and the owner apologized to me for the delay, agreeing he should at  
least have returned my calls and given me progress reports. He showed  
me a raft of commercial machines (mostly superautos and autos) that  
had all come in needing to be fixed right away under service  
contracts. (My machines are for enjoyment, but they're not my bread  
and butter, so I understand).  He plugged my Livia back in to show me  
it was working, turned on the power switch, and.....the pump kicked  
in and water ran out the grouphead.  Back to square one.
He was as exasperated as I was--he showed me everything he had  
troubleshooted and replaced:  touchpad, electronic control box,  
ribbon cable, connectors (and he actually removed and reversed  
connectors in front of me to see if they worked and even tested each  
prong for defects), sensors, OPV, pressurestat, solenoid, even the  
sensor to the reservoir--all to no avail.  The fact that it worked  
yesterday on one circuit but not today on another tells him that the  
problem goes deeper--it'd take testing every wire and dismantling the  
boiler;  he had another Livia 90A come in with a short that totally  
zapped its boiler (HX and all--he showed me that there was a warped  
top disk--I dunno what you'd call it), and he thinks that there might  
be a short somewhere that is sending the wrong signal to the pump and  
boiler--cold water runs out the grouphead as soon as the power is  
turned on.
At this point, he offered to let me take the machine home and refund  
half the $250 I paid (so I could send it to Pasquini to see what they  
could do), leave it there and get my $250 back , pay for another $300  
worth of parts (but no charge for labor) or another alternative:  he  
gets Livia semiautos for $800 and sells them for $1K. He offered to  
take the 90A in trade for its parts (there are several others in the  
shop needing repair) and give me a new Livia semiauto for $500.  I  
did a quick calculation in my head-- those $300 in parts might or  
might not do the trick; it'd cost at least $200 to ship the machine  
to and from L.A., plus Pasquini's parts & labor costs.   The cheapest  
I'd seen a Livia 90 semiauto was $899, and that was with having to  
buy a year's worth of pods I'd have to sell on eBay.  I asked him  
what his setup at home was, and he said he uses a Livia 90 semiauto  
and manually preinfuses before pulling his shots--something I'm doing  
with my Silvia, which is doing yeoman service but can't steam for  
more than 3 trad or 2 American cappas at a time, and has to be surfed  
(assuming I don't want to send it off to be PID'ed--and that still  
wouldn't increase its capacity or allow me to steam simultaneously or  
immediately after pulling a shot).
So I bit the bullet--he says the new Livia 90 will be here by FedEx  
by Tues., and I should call ahead and come and get it--and he agreed  
that I need not pay in advance.
I should've bought the semiauto to begin with--I hardly ever used the  
programmability and often stopped the shots early anyway.  No  
electronics to go blooey. I can always get it PID'ed if I want to,  
but I've developed the instincts to tell me when the temp is right.
BTW, he showed me a $24,000 La Cimbali superauto--it was the third  
time this year it had broken; he has other superautos, all over $2K,  
in for repair that break with depressing regularity.  I saw only two  
semiautos in for repair (both 2-group professional machines)--and  
they were in for basic maintenance and tuneups.
On the one hand, in an ideal universe, I should not have to end up  
shelling out more money to get a functioning machine, especially  
because of the failure to communicate and my inconvenience. But mine  
worked for over 2 years and outlived its warranty;  meanwhile, the  
shop put in way more time in troubleshooting than the $250 I paid  
them, and I will end up with a brand-new, warranted and more robust  
machine, albeit with fewer bells and whistles (which I'd never really  
taken full advantage of anyway--only real convenience of the controls  
was to be able to step away from the machine and not worry about the  
shot running over, and half the time I'd have to watch it anyway to  
make sure it didn't blond).
On Oct 11, 2007, at 7:37 AM, Tom Ulmer wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
--Apple-Mail-29--928390039
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charsetO-8859-1
Well, we're throwing in the towel. Came into the shop right on time, and =
the owner apologized to me for the delay, agreeing he should at least =
have returned my calls and given me progress reports. He showed me a =
raft of commercial machines (mostly superautos and autos) that had all =
come in needing to be fixed right away under service contracts. (My =
machines are for enjoyment, but they're not my bread and butter, so I =
understand).  He plugged my Livia back in to show me it was working, =
turned on the power switch, and.....the pump kicked in and water ran out =
the grouphead.  Back to square one. 
He was as exasperated as I = was--he showed me everything he had troubleshooted and replaced: =  touchpad, electronic control box, ribbon cable, connectors (and he = actually removed and reversed connectors in front of me to see if they = worked and even tested each prong for defects), sensors, OPV, = pressurestat, solenoid, even the sensor to the reservoir--all to no = avail.  The fact that it worked yesterday on one circuit but not today = on another tells him that the problem goes deeper--it'd take testing = every wire and dismantling the boiler;  he had another Livia 90A come = in with a short that totally zapped its boiler (HX and all--he showed me = that there was a warped top disk--I dunno what you'd call it), and he = thinks that there might be a short somewhere that is sending the wrong = signal to the pump and boiler--cold water runs out the grouphead as soon = as the power is turned on.  
At this point, he offered = to let me take the machine home and refund half the $250 I paid (so I = could send it to Pasquini to see what they could do), leave it there and = get my $250 back , pay for another $300 worth of parts (but no charge = for labor) or another alternative:  he gets Livia semiautos for $800 = and sells them for $1K. He offered to take the 90A in trade for its = parts (there are several others in the shop needing repair) and give me = a new Livia semiauto for $500.  I did a quick calculation in my head-- = those $300 in parts might or might not do the trick; it'd cost at least = $200 to ship the machine to and from L.A., plus Pasquini's parts & = labor costs.   The cheapest I'd seen a Livia 90 semiauto was $899, and = that was with having to buy a year's worth of pods I'd have to sell on = eBay.  I asked him what his setup at home was, and he said he uses a = Livia 90 semiauto and manually preinfuses before pulling his = shots--something I'm doing with my Silvia, which is doing yeoman service = but can't steam for more than 3 trad or 2 American cappas at a time, and = has to be surfed (assuming I don't want to send it off to be PID'ed--and = that still wouldn't increase its capacity or allow me to steam = simultaneously or immediately after pulling a shot). 
So I bit the bullet--he = says the new Livia 90 will be here by FedEx by Tues., and I should call = ahead and come and get it--and he agreed that I need not pay in = advance.
I = should've bought the semiauto to begin with--I hardly ever used the = programmability and often stopped the shots early anyway.  No = electronics to go blooey. I can always get it PID'ed if I want to, but = I've developed the instincts to tell me when the temp is = right.
BTW, = he showed me a $24,000 La Cimbali superauto--it was the third time this = year it had broken; he has other superautos, all over $2K, in for repair = that break with depressing regularity.  I saw only two semiautos in = for repair (both 2-group professional machines)--and they were in for = basic maintenance and tuneups.
On the one hand, in an = ideal universe, I should not have to end up shelling out more money to = get a functioning machine, especially because of the failure to = communicate and my inconvenience. But mine worked for over 2 years and = outlived its warranty;  meanwhile, the shop put in way more time in = troubleshooting than the $250 I paid them, and I will end up with a = brand-new, warranted and more robust machine, albeit with fewer bells = and whistles (which I'd never really taken full advantage of = anyway--only real convenience of the controls was to be able to step = away from the machine and not worry about the shot running over, and = half the time I'd have to watch it anyway to make sure it didn't = blond).On Oct 11, 2007, at 7:37 AM, Tom Ulmer = wrote:
You're dealing with scoundrels. = File the complaint.Just the same, I hope Livia = returns to her dutiful position soon. -----Original = Message-----From: homeroast-admin= s.sweetmarias.com[mailto:homeroast-adm= in] On Behalf Of Sandy AndinaSent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 7:12 PMTo: homeroast= s.comSubject: +Livia might finally be = OK After three months (two of which were full of = constant unanswered phonecalls and = e-mails), I finally hinted I might have to call in the city'sDept. of Consumer Affairs.  Just got an e-mail saying to = "come pick up yourfixed espresso machine at = 11:30 tomorrow." We shall see just how "fixed" itis. If it still doesn't work, I'm either taking it = to another shop (in ElkGrove = Village) or biting the bullet and paying for UPS to ship it back = toPasquini. Still fries me that I'd already paid = $250 and the shop cashed the www.sandyandina.comwww.sass-music.com homeroast mailing listhttp://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change your personal list settings (digest = options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings = Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-29--928390039--

2) From: Barry Luterman
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Hang in there I don't think you will regret the decision. May want to =
PID in the future any way. Mazel Tov on your new addition

3) From: Sue
HI Sandy, Sorry to hear about all of your troubles! The frustration of all
that would have nearly killed me I think!
Speaking of dead espresso machines................
My almost 2 1/2 year old Andreja Premium had to be shut down last week. I
haven't been able to spend any real time looking at it yet. I'm not very
good at diagnosing and fixing these kind of things, so I don't know if I'll
be able to fix it myself. I went to pull a shot and noticed a wet counter
and overflowing drip tray! The water just runs out of the tube that goes
into the drip tray whenever the machine is turned on. I'm not even sure who
to call yet.  The only thing I do know is there isn't any repair shops in
Traverse City Michigan! I hope it ends up being something simple.........
and inexpensive! ....................does anyone have any advice?
Sue
On 10/11/07, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>

4) From: Sandy Andina
--Apple-Mail-34--922895879
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset-ASCII;
	delsp=yes;
	format=flowed
Hi, Sue,
Sounds like it could be a stuck solenoid valve (scale or corrosion),  
the one that sucks excess water back up out of the grouphead after  
pulling a shot so you can disengage the portafilter without getting  
scalded, and allows you to knock out a firm non-soupy puck. If the  
water were coming out the bottom of the machine but not the little  
spigot into the drip tray, I'd say a leaky pressurestat.  Even though  
it's probably out of warranty, I would go ahead and call the vendor  
from which you bought it for their suggestions as to repair  
facilities. (I called Pasquini--the vendor, Trishops.com, is just a  
virtual warehouse; and the warranty facility, Cafe West, referred me  
back to Pasquini, which gave me the names of two repair shops in the  
Chicago area).  I'm sure there are more adventurous folks on this  
list who'd order the part and install it themselves, but anything  
more sophisticated than replacing a pressurestat is beyond my grasp  
(and even for that I had to be walked through it step-by-step over  
the phone).  You can also Google "Michigan espresso machine service."
BTW, I'll be performing in Traverse City (Horizon Books) with the  
SASS! Trio Sat. Nov. 3. We can talk espresso machines during the  
break between sets.
On Oct 11, 2007, at 2:41 PM, Sue wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
--Apple-Mail-34--922895879
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charsetO-8859-1
Hi, Sue,Sounds like it could be a stuck solenoid valve (scale or =
corrosion), the one that sucks excess water back up out of the grouphead =
after pulling a shot so you can disengage the portafilter without =
getting scalded, and allows you to knock out a firm non-soupy puck. If =
the water were coming out the bottom of the machine but not the little =
spigot into the drip tray, I'd say a leaky pressurestat.  Even though =
it's probably out of warranty, I would go ahead and call the vendor from =
which you bought it for their suggestions as to repair facilities. (I =
called Pasquini--the vendor, Trishops.com, is just a virtual warehouse; =
and the warranty facility, Cafe West, referred me back to Pasquini, =
which gave me the names of two repair shops in the Chicago area).  I'm =
sure there are more adventurous folks on this list who'd order the part =
and install it themselves, but anything more sophisticated than =
replacing a pressurestat is beyond my grasp (and even for that I had to =
be walked through it step-by-step over the phone).  You can also =
Google "Michigan espresso machine service."
BTW, I'll be performing in = Traverse City (Horizon Books) with the SASS! Trio Sat. Nov. 3. We can = talk espresso machines during the break between = sets. On Oct 11, 2007, at 2:41 PM, Sue = wrote:
HI Sandy, Sorry to hear about all of your troubles! = The frustration of all that would have nearly killed me I think! =     Speaking of dead espresso = machines................ My almost 2 1/2 year old Andreja = Premium had to be shut down last week. I haven't been able to spend any = real time looking at it yet. I'm not very good at diagnosing and fixing = these kind of things, so I don't know if I'll be able to fix it myself. = I went to pull a shot and noticed a wet counter and overflowing drip = tray! The water just runs out of the tube that goes into the drip tray = whenever the machine is turned on. I'm not even sure who to call yet.  = The only thing I do know is there isn't any repair shops in Traverse = City Michigan! I hope it ends up being something simple......... and = inexpensive! ....................does anyone have any advice? =     = Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-34--922895879--

5) From: Sue
Wow, I can't believe you'll be performing up here! It looks like I'll
actually be home that weekend. We'll have to walk downtown to see you!
Thanks for the advice on the espresso machine. I received it as a gift that
was purchased from SM. I might do that  - give Tom and call and see who he
recommends. There isn't much of a manual that came with it - more of flyer
I'd say. I don't even know what the parts are - or where they are. I thought
maybe I could do more if there were a good manual - with pictures!
On 10/11/07, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>

6) From: Paul Goelz
At 09:01 PM 10/11/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>
Wow, looks like you'll be in my back yard Oct. 26th too!  I didn't 
realize that you were on the bill with Cooper/Nelson/Early!  Cool!
Paul
Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI
paul at pgoelz dot comhttp://www.pgoelz.com


HomeRoast Digest