HomeRoast Digest


Topic: why do commercial roasters roast so dark? (59 msgs / 2077 lines)
1) From: Richard Ferguson
I live outside the DC area in Virginia and have stumbled across a few local
roasters.  The trend I have found is they all roast very dark.  At one shop,
the lightest roast they had was a full city+ and the other was probably
vienna.  I have only been roasting for about 6 months but I find the most
flavor/fruitiness at the lighter roasts.  Is this just to please the masses or
am I missing something?
richard

2) From: Brett Mason
Richard, you are missing something...
Look on the corner.  OK, so look on the other corner.  Yep, that's a
Starbucks.  Notice the line of people waiting?
Yeah, they get more than their fair share of business.  So Joe Schmoe opens
Joe Schmoe Joe and notices he only has one customer - Joe Schmoe.  Where are
the others?  Buying dark roasted mediocrafe from Starbucks.
What is Joe Schmoe Joe to do?  Roast a darker Schmoe.
Yeah, it also caramelizes the oils a bit, making a slightly sweeter cup and
muting the dreck attributes of the cheap coffee...
He doesn't know what you know about Specialty Coffee.  And even if he did,
he needs to earn a living - most people don't get it...  See that line of
customers?
Brett
On 10/15/07, Richard Ferguson  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

3) From: Larry Johnson
In my very humble opinion, they are probably:
a.) trying emulate the major player of their field, Starbucks (a.k.a. Charbucks)
b.) hoping to mask any flaws in their inferior beans by roasting out
any flavors inherent in the beans and replacing same with nothing but
'roast' flavor.
c.) assuming a lack of sophistication on the part of the consumer, in
which case they'll probably get rich.
On 10/15/07, Richard Ferguson  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Larry J

4) From: Stephen Carey
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Richard,
I live in the same area you do and have been doing this for about 2 
and a half months now.  I use an IR2, and when I set up good 
profiles, which takes practice I don't get too dark roasts - other 
than once when I turned it off by accident, then tried again.  That 
was just a mess.
But, by keeping my eyes, ears and nose open I have a good idea where 
my beans are at any given cycle.  Some of my profiles go three 
cycles, some go four, one goes five.  What machine are you using?  I 
got mine at SM, and it has worked very well.  It does run hot unless 
I have a dryer hose on it leading to a ceiling fan, turned on.  That 
pulls out not only smoke, but heat, keeping my temperature almost 
right on to what the machine says, maybe off by a degree or two, at the most.
IR2s are known to run hot and will produce a darkened roast if that 
fact isn't figured into the profiles you set up.
You will get lots of information from the group, but my guess is that 
they will need to know what roaster and set up you are using.
Hey, great to have someone in this area roasting.  I live in North Springfield.
Well, I am off on another trip, but will try to be on email to see 
how this thread turns out.  My best suggestion is to give us some 
more information, from the beans you are trying, the amounts in each 
roast, the machine, the profile, something so the real experts here 
can help you out.
All the best.  I am outta here.
At 08:25 AM 10/15/2007, you wrote:
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Richard,
I live in the same area you do and have been doing this for about 2 and a
half months now.  I use an IR2, and when I set up good profiles,
which takes practice I don't get too dark roasts - other than once when I
turned it off by accident, then tried again.  That was just a
mess.
But, by keeping my eyes, ears and nose open I have a good idea where my
beans are at any given cycle.  Some of my profiles go three cycles,
some go four, one goes five.  What machine are you using?  I
got mine at SM, and it has worked very well.  It does run hot unless
I have a dryer hose on it leading to a ceiling fan, turned on.  That
pulls out not only smoke, but heat, keeping my temperature almost right
on to what the machine says, maybe off by a degree or two, at the
most.
IR2s are known to run hot and will produce a darkened roast if that fact
isn't figured into the profiles you set up.
You will get lots of information from the group, but my guess is that
they will need to know what roaster and set up you are using.
Hey, great to have someone in this area roasting.  I live in North
Springfield.
Well, I am off on another trip, but will try to be on email to see how
this thread turns out.  My best suggestion is to give us some more
information, from the beans you are trying, the amounts in each roast,
the machine, the profile, something so the real experts here can help you
out.
All the best.  I am outta here.
At 08:25 AM 10/15/2007, you wrote:
I live outside the DC area in
Virginia and have stumbled across a few local
roasters.  The trend I have found is they all roast very dark. 
At one shop,
the lightest roast they had was a full city+ and the other was
probably
vienna.  I have only been roasting for about 6 months but I find the
most
flavor/fruitiness at the lighter roasts.  Is this just to please the
masses or
am I missing something?
richard
homeroast mailing list
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5) From: Stephen Carey
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Okay, Richard, I missed your title to your post completely.  From 
working all night.  I thought you meant store bought roasters.
Forgive my stupidity.  Truly comes from no sleep and now a show to 
produce.  Plus, the excitement of someone in this area roasting their own.
I swear I read your post as, "Why do the roasters I buy all roast too dark."
I am so out of it.  Good thing I have a car service this morning, for 
I could not drive myself, that is for sure.
Don't think I am as dumb as my post, just as tired as it is off subject.
Still, very excited about having a roaster in this area, I don't feel 
so alone now.
Have a great day.
At 08:25 AM 10/15/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>
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Okay, Richard, I missed your title to your post
completely.  From working all night.  I thought you meant store
bought roasters.
Forgive my stupidity.  Truly comes from no sleep and now a show to
produce.  Plus, the excitement of someone in this area roasting
their own.
I swear I read your post as, "Why do the roasters I buy all roast
too dark."
I am so out of it.  Good thing I have a car service this morning,
for I could not drive myself, that is for sure.
Don't think I am as dumb as my post, just as tired as it is off
subject.
Still, very excited about having a roaster in this area, I don't feel so
alone now.  
Have a great day.
At 08:25 AM 10/15/2007, you wrote:
I live outside the DC area in
Virginia and have stumbled across a few local
roasters.  The trend I have found is they all roast very dark. 
At one shop,
the lightest roast they had was a full city+ and the other was
probably
vienna.  I have only been roasting for about 6 months but I find the
most
flavor/fruitiness at the lighter roasts.  Is this just to please the
masses or
am I missing something?
richard
homeroast mailing list
http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change your personal list settings (digest options, vacations,
unsvbscribes) go to
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6) From: Floyd Lozano
I have a few customers now for my home roast, and I am roasting darker to
serve their tastes.  My goal in roasting for customers is to produce a
product they will buy so I can reduce my stash and buy newer and varied
coffees to try for myself - basically, I am only in it for cost recovery (at
10 bucks a lb, after the cost of beans, shipping, propane, foil bags, lost
bean weight during roast, and of course my time, i'm not making a mint
here!).  I provide samples of lighter roasts to let them see what they
prefer, but if they want to pay for the darker roasts, that's what they get!
-F
At 08:25 AM 10/15/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>

7) From: Rich
By roasting the bean to carbon you have a consistent flavor every time, Kingsford.  No matter what bean 
you stat with.  I believe Tom refers to it as "roasted radish".  This is how all of the big commercial 
roasters manage to get the year to year consistency in the blends.
On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 08:25:29 -0400 (EDT), Richard Ferguson wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings

8) From: Jerry Procopio
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I also have a few customers for my homeroast.  I'm currently selling 
about 30 pounds a month at $10 per pound.  I have one customer that gets 
10 pounds a month and I have to take the roast almost a full minute into 
2nd crack to get the roast dark enough to please him.  I have a customer 
that said one day "The coffee was great, but could you make it a little 
stronger next time?"  I suggested that he grind a little finer and add a 
little more coffee to his filter basket if he wanted it stronger.  He 
replied, "can't you make it strong like Starbucks?"  Another time I had 
over roasted a pound of decaf.  It was on the dark side of Vienna.  
Rather than to toss it, I gave it to my next door neighbor after 
explaining to her that I had burned it.  Two days later she said to me 
"that was the best coffee I have ever tasted, can't I pay you for it?"  
Oh well! (I didn't take her money even though I should have).
When I first started homeroasting about four years ago, I had been a 
Starbucks drinker.  I tried to emulate the dark roast that I was used 
to.  I used to shake my head at all the talk of lighter roasting that I 
was reading about on this list.  It took less than six months to convert 
me over.  Except when a customer requires it, my roasts are C+ to FC 
with an occasional C or FC+, all depending on the coffee bean (and of 
course the rare case of the accidental Vienna when I fail to pay 
attention to what I am doing).
JavaJerry
RK Drum roasting in Chesapeake, VA
Floyd Lozano wrote:
<Snip>

9) From: gin
great post...
ginny
---- Jerry Procopio  wrote: 
<Snip>

10) From: Homeroaster
#1 Shiny beans are pretty
#2 People equate dark with rich and full bodied and ask for it
#3 Dark cuts through 16 ounces of milk and caramel as an acceptable milk 
flavoring
#4 Roasting dark hides flaws in inferior beans.  Roast will taste like 
roast.
more?
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

11) From: Dan Bollinger
At the top of the list I would put that dark roast is equated with high quality. 
Whether correct or not is immaterial. Starbucks has managed to export the 
'Seattle Scorch' roast (coined on this day by Dan!) and people now expect that 
as the new quality standard.  This regional roasting method is not new. There is 
a reason one temperature is named after European countries (French, Italian, 
Spanish), a European city (Vienna), the new world (American), a part of the new 
world (New England).  It is how the market has worked for over a century. Dan
<Snip>

12) From: Mike Koenig
The Starbucks marketing machine has also created the impression that
those who can stomach their charred taste are somehow "better" coffee
drinkers.  When they came out with their "lighter" roasts a few years
ago, the marketing message was basically that they were for people who
weren't yet ready for their normal stuff.
This same thing goes on with micro-brewed beer,  where there are a lot
of crappy microbrews that just load up on the hops to provide "more
flavor" than the budmilloors products.  Yes it certainly has more
flavor, but too much of it is awful.
--mike
On 10/15/07, Dan Bollinger  wrote:
<Snip>

13) From: Justin Marquez
You have made a major discovery as a homeroaster.  "Dark is not always
best."  Read Tom's cupping comments to see where best to roast a given
coffee.
BTW -  "4$" will never change as long as that line of customers continues to
que up in their ignorance for more dark dreck.  Look at the bright side - if
the big guys are buying inferior coffee and roasting it too dark to mask its
true characteristics, that leaves more good coffee for the rest of us buying
green coffee.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On 10/15/07, Richard Ferguson  wrote:
<Snip>

14) From: raymanowen
This is a "Must Read" thread.
To those for whom it would be educational, it's probably too technical!
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Bravo!
On 10/15/07, Mike Koenig  wrote:
<Snip>

15) From: seth Grandeau
I think many of us were so used to to weak taste of the big supermarket cof=
fees (Folgers, Maxwell House, etc), that when Starbucks came out with their=
 darker roasts, we saw darker roast = more flavor.  For flavorless beans,=
 that's surely true.  Thus, it gets set in your mind that darker roast = =
more flavor and that's what you look for when buying a roasted coffee.  I k=
now I'm coming from that perspective and it's been hard to stop my roast at=
 C+.  It just looks so light!  But I am finding new flavors when I do. :)
 
On a side note, I was in my local Whole Foods and was looking at their roas=
ted coffees (they roast right in the store).  Many of their "medium" roasts=
 were nearly black and shiny with oil.  I'm guessing the consistency of the=
 roast may vary a bit. :)
Climb to the top of the charts!  Play Star Shuffle:  the word scramble =
challenge with star power.http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oc=t=

16) From: gin
yet another great post...
g
---- Homeroaster  wrote: 
<Snip>

17) From: gin
I am going to start this over on homeroasters.org as well, before it gets lost, great postings from each off you.
ginny
---- raymanowen wrote: 
<Snip>

18) From: gin
Justin:
the very reason I started to home roast was because "it" all tasted burned.
bottom line I get great tasting coffee that does not all taste the same!!
ginny
---- Justin Marquez  wrote: 
<Snip>

19) From: Ken Schillinger
Gin nailed it on this one!
I also started roasting because the only time I could get good coffee was 
when I was visiting family in Costa Rica. Now I have good flavorful coffee 
every day...
Ken.

20) From: Sandy Andina
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The average specialty coffee consumer has been indoctrinated with the  
attitude that dark=strong="gourmet."  Ask anyone who feels they've  
graduated from supermarket coffee (but has not yet figured out what  
*we* know) what kind of coffee they prefer. I do all the time when  
friends and house concert hosts remark how they impressed they are  
with my coffees and I ask them what they'd like me to roast for  
them.  Invariably, I'll hear "Strong. Robust. Dark. Sumatra. French.  
espresso *roast*" and the like.  Now, those who are in the know and  
still say "Sumatra" really like the bean's own flavors, and the roast  
degree is secondary. But most who say they prefer that are people who  
have been presented in shops and coffee bars (including at gas  
stations) with Sumatra having been dark-roasted (and in said gas  
stations, the "extra-caffeine" blend has also been dark-roasted,  
perhaps to disguise the robusta that's probably been added); and they  
mistakenly believe that since the coffee tastes darker and bolder, it  
must also be stronger.  Even Krispy Kreme stores play into this-- 
their regular blend, yellow-labeled city roast, is called "Mild;" the  
medium-full city, red label, is "Rich," and the blue-label Vienna-to- 
French is called "Bold." They sell more of the latter than the  
lighter two in cities and suburbs .  Somehow consumers see a  
preference for dark-roast as a preference for strength and thus a  
mark of connoisseurship and even macho---they think they're getting  
more caffeine and that their palates are more sophisticated than the  
hoi polloi "wusses" who prefer a lighter roast or (shudder) have no  
preference.  Finally, as Consumer Reports confirmed, lighter roasts  
strut their savory stuff more efficiently when consumed black and  
unsweetened, whereas the darker roasts (regardless of varietal) were  
at their best when loaded with milk and sugar (which muted their  
harshness but blunted the nuances of the lighter roasts).  Most who  
like the dark stuff, therefore, have either fallen for the  
"dark=connoisseur" (perhaps "real men drink dark-roast black coffee")  
line or load their coffee with milk and sugar (either having  
transitioned from foo-foo specialty milk drinks or "Boston" coffee  
with training wheels).
On Oct 15, 2007, at 7:53 AM, Stephen Carey wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
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The average specialty coffee consumer has been indoctrinated with the =
attitude that dark=strong="gourmet."  Ask anyone who feels they've =
graduated from supermarket coffee (but has not yet figured out what *we* =
know) what kind of coffee they prefer. I do all the time when friends =
and house concert hosts remark how they impressed they are with my =
coffees and I ask them what they'd like me to roast for them. =
 Invariably, I'll hear "Strong. Robust. Dark. Sumatra. French. =
espresso *roast*" and the like.  Now, those who are in the know and =
still say "Sumatra" really like the bean's own flavors, and the roast =
degree is secondary. But most who say they prefer that are people who =
have been presented in shops and coffee bars (including at gas stations) =
with Sumatra having been dark-roasted (and in said gas stations, the =
"extra-caffeine" blend has also been dark-roasted, perhaps to disguise =
the robusta that's probably been added); and they mistakenly believe =
that since the coffee tastes darker and bolder, it must also be =
stronger.  Even Krispy Kreme stores play into this--their regular =
blend, yellow-labeled city roast, is called "Mild;" the medium-full =
city, red label, is "Rich," and the blue-label Vienna-to-French is =
called "Bold." They sell more of the latter than the lighter two in =
cities and suburbs .  Somehow consumers see a preference for =
dark-roast as a preference for strength and thus a mark of =
connoisseurship and even macho---they think they're getting more =
caffeine and that their palates are more sophisticated than the hoi =
polloi "wusses" who prefer a lighter roast or (shudder) have no =
preference.  Finally, as Consumer Reports confirmed, lighter roasts =
strut their savory stuff more efficiently when consumed black and =
unsweetened, whereas the darker roasts (regardless of varietal) were at =
their best when loaded with milk and sugar (which muted their harshness =
but blunted the nuances of the lighter roasts).  Most who like the =
dark stuff, therefore, have either fallen for the "dark=connoisseur" =
(perhaps "real men drink dark-roast black coffee") line or load their =
coffee with milk and sugar (either having transitioned from foo-foo =
specialty milk drinks or "Boston" coffee with training =
wheels).
On Oct 15, 2007, at 7:53 AM, Stephen Carey =
wrote:
Richard, I live in the same area = you do and have been doing this for about 2 and a half months now.  I = use an IR2, and when I set up good profiles, which takes practice I = don't get too dark roasts - other than once when I turned it off by = accident, then tried again.  That was just a mess. But, by = keeping my eyes, ears and nose open I have a good idea where my beans = are at any given cycle.  Some of my profiles go three cycles, some go = four, one goes five.  What machine are you using?  I got mine at SM, = and it has worked very well.  It does run hot unless I have a dryer = hose on it leading to a ceiling fan, turned on.  That pulls out not = only smoke, but heat, keeping my temperature almost right on to what the = machine says, maybe off by a degree or two, at the most. IR2s = are known to run hot and will produce a darkened roast if that fact = isn't figured into the profiles you set up. You will get lots of = information from the group, but my guess is that they will need to know = what roaster and set up you are using. Hey, great to have = someone in this area roasting.  I live in North Springfield. = Well, I am off on another trip, but will try to be on email to see how = this thread turns out.  My best suggestion is to give us some more = information, from the beans you are trying, the amounts in each roast, = the machine, the profile, something so the real experts here can help = you out. All the best.  I am outta here. At 08:25 = AM 10/15/2007, you wrote: I live outside the DC area in = Virginia and have stumbled across a few local roasters.  The trend = I have found is they all roast very dark.  At one shop, the = lightest roast they had was a full city+ and the other was probably = vienna.  I have only been roasting for about 6 months but I find the = most flavor/fruitiness at the lighter roasts.  Is this just to = please the masses or am I missing something? richard = homeroast mailing = list =http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast To = change your personal list settings (digest options, vacations, = unsvbscribes) go to =http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings= Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-66--583219309--

21) From: Sandy Andina
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The late great Winnetka, IL coffee shop Espresso Pacifico used to  
liken drinking it to "sucking on the end of a burnt match."
On Oct 15, 2007, at 10:49 AM, Dan Bollinger wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
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The late great Winnetka, IL coffee shop Espresso Pacifico used to liken =
drinking it to "sucking on the end of a burnt match."
On =
Oct 15, 2007, at 10:49 AM, Dan Bollinger wrote:

 Starbucks has managed to = export the 'Seattle Scorch' roast (coined on this day by = Dan!)

Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-67--583019402--

22) From: James Raven
I totally agree, a little difference in this "All The Same " world we live =
in needs some fresh differences. Coffee is only the beginning. All coffees,=
 especially Starbucks are burned, taste burned, but seem great to those wit=
hout that homeroasting experience that I guess we all take for granted now =
as it has become our norm for however long you have roasted, me 6 years, bu=
t I never take it for granted, justy enjoy it. I even cook my own food and =
grow organic garden spices etc . . . .   so yeah, keep on roasting, tasting=
, and enjoying the differences in life that so many are unaware of and don'=
t care about, that's what's sad!!!!!
From: jeff221
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +why do commercial roasters roast so dark?
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:06:25 -0400
It's a "taste/look/be all the same" world...McDonalds, Wal-Mart, *$$, etc.,=
 etc., etc. I think it's sad.
gin wrote:
Justin:
the very reason I started to home roast was because "it" all tasted burned.
bottom line I get great tasting coffee that does not all taste the same!!
ginny
---- Justin Marquez  wrote:
You have made a major discovery as a homeroaster.  "Dark is not always
best."  Read Tom's cupping comments to see where best to roast a given
coffee.
BTW -  "4$" will never change as long as that line of customers continues t=
o
que up in their ignorance for more dark dreck.  Look at the bright side - i=
f
the big guys are buying inferior coffee and roasting it too dark to mask it=
s
true characteristics, that leaves more good coffee for the rest of us buyin=
g
green coffee.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On 10/15/07, Richard Ferguson  wrote:
I live outside the DC area in Virginia and have stumbled across a few
local
roasters.  The trend I have found is they all roast very dark.  At one
shop,
the lightest roast they had was a full city+ and the other was probably
vienna.  I have only been roasting for about 6 months but I find the most
flavor/fruitiness at the lighter roasts.  Is this just to please the
masses or
am I missing something?
richard

23) From: gin
James:
all the same has NEVER worked for me. when I got up at 4am I had just enoug=
h coffee for a double shot cafe crema; opps, I forgot about myself over thi=
s roasting weekend.
I zipped out and roasted 9oz of (approx) of Rwanda Butare  Bourbon, after a=
 4 minute rest, what a cup!!
ginny
---- James Raven  wrote: 
<Snip>
e in needs some fresh differences. Coffee is only the beginning. All coffee=
s, especially Starbucks are burned, taste burned, but seem great to those w=
ithout that homeroasting experience that I guess we all take for granted no=
w as it has become our norm for however long you have roasted, me 6 years, =
but I never take it for granted, justy enjoy it. I even cook my own food an=
d grow organic garden spices etc . . . .   so yeah, keep on roasting, tasti=
ng, and enjoying the differences in life that so many are unaware of and do=
n't care about, that's what's sad!!!!!
<Snip>
., etc., etc. I think it's sad.
<Snip>
d.
<Snip>
 to
<Snip>
 if
<Snip>
its
<Snip>
ing
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
tp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast To change your person=
al list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go tohttp://swe=etmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings
<Snip>
Stop by today.
<Snip>
OctWLtagline
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings

24) From: gin
Ken:
it is amazing what real coffee tastes like.
I laugh at the fact that my journey started with a Fresh Roast someone gave me 5 plus years ago because I always complained about coffee here after I would return from Paris.
the revelation each day is amazing with new flavors and tastes...
ginny
---- Ken Schillinger  wrote: 
<Snip>

25) From: Rich
A 4 minute rest is an excessively long time for an e=
mergency cupa....
On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:06:15 -0400, gin wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
 at 4am I had just enough coffee for a double 
shot cafe crema; opps, I forgot about myself over this =
roasting weekend.
<Snip>
tare  Bourbon, after a 4 minute rest, what a 
cup!!
<Snip>
<Snip>
he Same " world we live in needs some fresh 
differences. Coffee is only the beginning. All coffees, es=
pecially Starbucks are burned, taste burned, 
but seem great to those without that homeroasting experien=
ce that I guess we all take for granted 
now as it has become our norm for however long you h=
ave roasted, me 6 years, but I never take it for 
granted, justy enjoy it. I even cook my own food and =
grow organic garden spices etc . . . .   so yeah, =
keep on roasting, tasting, and enjoying the differences in=
 life that so many are unaware of and don't 
care about, that's what's sad!!!!!
<Snip>
k?
<Snip>
Wal-Mart, *$$, etc., etc., etc. I think it's sad.
<Snip>
 "it" all tasted burned.
<Snip>
t all taste the same!!
<Snip>
"Dark is not always
<Snip>
st to roast a given
<Snip>
ine of customers continues to
<Snip>
ook at the bright side - if
<Snip>
it too dark to mask its
<Snip>
the rest of us buying
<Snip>
tumbled across a few
<Snip>
st very dark.  At one
<Snip>
the other was probably
<Snip>
nths but I find the most
<Snip>
t to please the
<Snip>
vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
 list http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change yo=
ur personal list settings 
(digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
 Messenger Café. Stop by today.
<Snip>
ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline=
__
<Snip>
vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
cations, unsvbscribes) go to http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings

26) From: Woody DeCasere
you all have very high opinions of yourselves an your coffee roasting
abilities, it gets really thick in here with the i praise myself attitudes.
Have you ever considered walking into the shop and talking to the roaster
instead of bitching on here? There are a lot of great commercial roasters
who do an amazing job with their coffee, and a lot of home roasters drinkin=
g
their crap everyday and calling it great.
We are all in the process, none of us has become coffee roaster nirvana, no
matter what you may think. Stop and think before you judge.
On 10/15/07, gin  wrote:
<Snip>
ver
<Snip>
me
<Snip>
own
<Snip>
ng,
<Snip>
k
<Snip>
top
<Snip>
OctWLtagline
<Snip>
-- 
"And we'd better not risk another frontal assault, that rabbit's dynamite!!=
"http://www.decasere.blogspot.com/

27) From: Jim Gundlach
I agree, but I bet she cheated.  Rest does not start until the coffee  =
is cooled to room temperature.  The couple of times I have roasted in  =
the morning for my first cup, I let it cool enough to grind but  
resting had not officially started yet.
      pecan jim
On Oct 15, 2007, at 3:15 PM, Rich wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
 
<Snip>
<Snip>

28) From: Brett Mason
I certainly have a pretty high opinion of myself as a home roaster.
I have talked to the two roasters in town who roast their own.  They do a
good job with cheap coffee beans.  I bought some of their beans, and was
able to do the same job with their cheap coffee beans.
When I took my beans in, they really liked them...
The roasters who take their beans very dark do not seem to understand their
roasts, and so they go with the cheaper beans...
I agree about not judging (the Jesus thing, I know.)  But He DID say you ca=
n
tell a tree by its fruit.  Apparently those trees have scorched fruits...
Crispily yours,
Brett
On 10/15/07, Woody DeCasere  wrote:
<Snip>
s.
<Snip>
ing
<Snip>
 over
<Snip>
to
<Snip>
, me
<Snip>
y own
<Snip>
ting,
<Snip>
of
<Snip>
s
<Snip>
n
<Snip>
e
<Snip>
ttings
<Snip>
t
<Snip>
M_OctWLtagline
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

29) From: Homeroaster
and...
#5 Dark is trendy
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

30) From: Homeroaster
It kind of sounds like your attitude puts you above those you're criticizing 
for being 'high and mighty'.
I've never met a roaster that I didn't like.  So, yes, I enjoy talking to 
other roasters, both homeroasters and commercial roasters.  If I see a 
roaster in a shop, I'll at least seek out the person who does the roasting.
It's very difficult to homeroast beans purchased from Sweetmarias and not 
get something better and more enjoyable than what you get from most 
coffeeshops.  Occasionally you find a commercial roaster who actually has 
training and experience to understand the finer nuances of roasting great 
coffee, but usually, it's someone who bought a roaster and started turning 
beans brown.  Now they are calling themselves a master roaster, and buying 
all their beans from the 'C' list sight unseen.  The local roaster has his 
standard offerings, and an occasional unique bean, but try to get a Panama 
Geisha or some other Cup of Excellence winner at your local coffeeshop.
If I could get them somewhere else better, I'd do it.  If I could get the 
variety I have available in greens at a local roaster, I'd do it.  It's just 
not there.  Roasting is enjoyable, but I'm not an idiot.  If it tastes bad 
and I don't know how to make it taste good, then I get it somewhere else. 
I'm not going to drink bad coffee on principle.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

31) From: James Raven
Ginny:
What you roasted sure sounded good, too bad it couldn't rest a little longe=
r. I hope you have some of that batch stashed for another day. What type of=
 roaster do you use? CURIOSITY!!  
Enjoy your day, Rawanda Butare Bourbon, never had it, is it a heavy creamy =
type or just strong and smooth?
I had to use up the last of my Nicaraguan COE La Esperanza. I need to order=
, what's best available now? What others do you hold , roast, enjoy?? More =
CURIOSITY.  
PS - are you a Northwesterner?
hava good, - Jim
From: decasere
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +why do commercial roasters roast so dark?
CC: rvnrdr
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:20:45 -0400
you all have very high opinions of yourselves an your coffee roasting abili=
ties, it gets really thick in here with the i praise myself attitudes. Have=
 you ever considered walking into the shop and talking to the roaster inste=
ad of bitching on here? There are a lot of great commercial roasters who do=
 an amazing job with their coffee, and a lot of home roasters drinking thei=
r crap everyday and calling it great.
We are all in the process, none of us has become coffee roaster nirvana, no=
 matter what you may think. Stop and think before you judge.
On 10/15/07, gin  wrote:
James:
all the same has NEVER worked for me. when I got up at 4am I had just enoug=
h coffee for a double shot cafe crema; opps, I forgot about myself over thi=
s roasting weekend.
I zipped out and roasted 9oz of (approx) of Rwanda Butare  Bourbon, after a=
 4 minute rest, what a cup!!
ginny
---- James Raven  wrote:
<Snip>
e in needs some fresh differences. Coffee is only the beginning. All coffee=
s, especially Starbucks are burned, taste burned, but seem great to those w=
ithout that homeroasting experience that I guess we all take for granted no=
w as it has become our norm for however long you have roasted, me 6 years, =
but I never take it for granted, justy enjoy it. I even cook my own food an=
d grow organic garden spices etc . . . .   so yeah, keep on roasting, tasti=
ng, and enjoying the differences in life that so many are unaware of and do=
n't care about, that's what's sad!!!!!
<Snip>
., etc., etc. I think it's sad.
<Snip>
d.
<Snip>
 to
<Snip>
 if
<Snip>
its
<Snip>
ing
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
tp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast To change your person=
al list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go tohttp://swe=etmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings
<Snip>
p by today.
<Snip>
OctWLtagline
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings

32) From: Tom Ulmer
It seems we agree that the train of thought should find sublimation. 
I enjoy fine dining so I learned to prepare foods. Likewise, my =
appreciation
of coffee has found me spending time and effort in pursuit of my tastes. =
I
would hardly complain to a chef in a fine dining establishment that =
there
was too much tarragon in a béarnaise for my taste and I don't feel =
that I
would be compelled to disparage roast levels or profiles with a =
professional
roaster. My occasion to drink crap coffee brewed from my home roasts is
quite happily at a minimum as I don't believe I could continue to muster =
the
time and effort otherwise.

33) From: Zara Haimo
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
One of the guys who used to be in my aikido class is a professional =
roaster.  We would talk about roasting before/after class and he sounded =
as if he really knew his stuff, so one day I dropped by his cafe on a =
day he was roasting.  He used a thief repeatedly every few seconds in =
the last couple minutes of the roast to check the doneness of the beans =
and stopped the roast well short of charbucks.  I don't think his green =
beans were as good as what we get, but he definitely knew how to bring =
out the best in them.  He said he plans his roast schedule so the =
roasted beans in the shop are never more than a few days old and has =
different profiles for different beans.  There are some good boutique =
roasters out there.

34) From: Richard Ferguson
Its not a problem with my roasts.. I love my roasts.  I was just curious why I
see what I see at the local roaster.
richard
<Snip>

35) From: Edward Bourgeois
Just got 3 roasted samples from a new Roaster with a wood fired
roaster. He wants some opinions of his product. Problem is one was
full city++ spotted with oil the other two were totally oily. They
were still fresh. But not much to be able to judge. Been a long time,
like years since I have brewed and drank something so dark.
On 10/15/07, Richard Ferguson  wrote:
<Snip>

36) From: DJ Garcia
And it probably also runs along similar reasons as to "Why do dairy
corporations sell chocolate milk?" ...

37) From: gin
woody:
my making comments about my coffee being great is not a bad thing, your mak=
ing  comments about my coffee not being great is!!
relax dude, sure we all know there are a few good commercial roasters out t=
here 
(name 1) twist around the other way before your neck snaps off!!!
ginny
---- Woody DeCasere  wrote: 
<Snip>
s.
<Snip>
ing
<Snip>
no
<Snip>
 over
<Snip>
er
<Snip>
to
<Snip>
, me
<Snip>
y own
<Snip>
ting,
<Snip>
of
<Snip>
s
<Snip>
n
<Snip>
de
<Snip>
ask
<Snip>
e
<Snip>
ly
<Snip>
t
<Snip>
©. Stop
<Snip>
M_OctWLtagline
<Snip>
!!"
<Snip>

38) From: gin
no I did not cheat, the rest was the time to cool and get into the kitchen =
and pour dem beans into the hopper...
so I did cheat, the no rest beans would have been closer to the truth.
g
---- Jim Gundlach  wrote: 
<Snip>
_ 
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings

39) From: miKe mcKoffee
<Snip>
  
<Snip>
Depends on the locale. Very easy to do just that across the Colubmia river
in Portland at Stumptown, you know that place that sometimes buys the exact
same auctions lots with Tom, and will be on this side of the Columbia in
Vancouver next month. 
The generalizations are the problem in this type of thread.
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
www.mcKonaKoffee.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/

40) From: Les
Woody,
You are spot on when you say, "you all have very high opinions of
yourselves an(sp) your coffee roasting abilities."  There are some
really good commercial roasters out there.  I just finished two really
good roasts from Klatch Coffee.  I have had excellent coffee from
Stumptown, Blue Bottle, and Intellencia, and Bare Foot Roasters.  That
said, I have sampled well over 100 poor commercially roasted coffee.
Most of these people never have learned how to roast.  Someone on the
list recently said, "It is easy to turn beans brown (or black), but
difficult to roast."  I have gone into many shops and talked to the
owners and roasters.  Most of the time they don't want to talk or
listen.  Two examples.  One roasting the other dealing with espresso.
I was in Albuquerque, New Mexico and walked into a small shop that had
a very nice Probat in the corner.  I ordered a ristretto.  The barista
asked, "What is a ristretto?"  I knew I was in trouble.  I then asked
the baristia, "well do you mind if I show you?"  She said she didn't
mind.  So I pulled a very nice ristretto.  The blend wasn't too bad.
I then pulled her a ristretto.  She said, "I never knew espresso could
be so thick and sweet."  I then asked her if she knew much about
pulling shots.  The owner had just walked in and he said, "Oh they
dropped the equipment off and said anyone could learn."  Since I was
at a week long conference and my seminars didn't start until 10:30, he
said I could have free coffee and a free breakfast if I would show
them some of the tricks.  All was going well and on Thursday he
decided to roast.  Well, he didn't know anything about profiles, 1st
crack or 2nd crack.  He simply pulled the beans with the tyre and
roasted by color.  I helped him with a basic profile on 4 roasts.  He
said, that the Brazil, Ethiopian, and El Salvador  espresso blend that
I did for him was too light.  I told him that on Saturday I would pull
the best espresso shot he had ever had, or I would pay for all the
free breakfasts.  Well, I pulled him a beautiful 90% Crema double shot
that was heavenly.  Using the LM Linea was very fun indeed!   The sad
story is that business picked up and got so good he sold the shop last
year.  The other story was with my daughter and wife.  We were in
Bend, OR and my daughter told me she had a coffee shop she just loved.
 My wife and daughter both ordered milk drinks.  I passed and began to
enjoy the ambiance.  I was watching the barista and she was good.  So
I thought, "what the heck!"  I walked up to her and said, "I would
like a ristretto."  I watched the whole process and she did it
perfect!  The shot looked perfect.  It was served in the right kind of
cup.  The first sip was sour.  I mean really sour.  I asked her at
what temp she pulled the shot.  She said 195 degrees.  I said to her,
if you raise that temp 6-8 degrees it will be a much better shot.  The
owner was back and she came out and said, "Who the He!! do you think
you are?"  I answered her politely, "I am a coffee snob."  She then
said, our roaster says the ideal temperature on this blend is 195.  I
said, to her, "Well I have been pulling shots for years and I know
this would be much better at a higher temperature."  She gave me a
dirty look and went to the back.  About 20 minutes latter, the barista
brought me another ristretto.  She said, "the boss just went to the
store and will be gone for at least an hour.  I raised the temp on the
machine and tried one at 202 and it was just as you said.  Here is a
great tasting ristretto on me."  It was smooth, rich, not a touch of
sourness.  Yes another good commercial roast, but why put a
temperature on it?  Yes we are snobs.  I ground through over eight
pounds of coffee on Saturday testing a Conical burr grinder against a
Flat burr grinder.  Yes, I am a snob, I have two grinders at my house
right now that are worth almost $2,000.00.  Yes, I am a snob, I drank
coffee this morning that I paid over $15.00 a pound for the greens.  I
am sorry Woody, there are a few good commercial roasters out there,
not a lot.  I wish you were right.  Oh and by the way, I have had some
of Ginny's homeroast, it was superb!
Les
On 10/15/07, Woody DeCasere  wrote:
<Snip>

41) From: Brett Mason
I have had Ginny's homeroast as well - and agree...
Woody, there's something in your brain that equates this bunch of
homeroasters with "amateur" status...  Wish I knew why....
Brett
On 10/15/07, Les  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

42) From: Robert Gulley
Les
Great stories! I'd love to hear more from the group like that!
Robert RG
At 11:40 PM 10/15/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>
"I have measured out my life with coffee spoons."  ~T.S. Eliot  

43) From: Brett Mason
Why do commercial roasters roast so dark?
Because they haven't seen the light...
OK, so before now, I thought this was a serious thread.  I apologize - it
was merely a joke.
Does my answer win?
Brett
On 10/15/07, Richard Ferguson  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

44) From: Floyd Lozano
Now I want some of Ginny's home roast!
On 10/16/07, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>

45) From: Eddie Dove
Great read, Les!
I'll have to concur.  Ginny roasted and shipped to me some Guatemala
Huehue FTO - Asasapne Coop and the spice in the cup really made one
take note.
Eddie
On 10/15/07, Les  wrote:
<Snip>
[SNIP]
<Snip>

46) From: David Martin
On 10/15/07, Les  wrote:
...
<Snip>
...
ROTFL
Les, you're my hero!

47) From: Brian Kamnetz
On 10/15/07, Les  wrote:
<Snip>
Once again, theory triumphs over observation.
Brian

48) From: Erik Snapper
If you live in the area try Murky Coffee in Arlington (or D.C.). I visited
it while in the area and definitely enjoyed it. I think it's well worth
seeking out quality commercial operations to compare home-roasting results
with. They don't all char their coffee.
The majority of commercial operations are not all that great, sure, but you
can say the same thing about the majority of restaurants, grocery stores,
etc. Personally, I don't mind one bit that it's so easy to home roast great
coffee!
On 10/15/07, Richard Ferguson  wrote:
<Snip>

49) From: Sandy Andina
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I thought Murky didn't roast (at least not the last time I was there  
in August) but instead used Counter Culture Coffee from Cary, NC.  
(Great stuff wherever it comes from).
On Oct 16, 2007, at 3:01 PM, Erik Snapper wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
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I thought Murky didn't roast (at least not the last time I was there in =
August) but instead used Counter Culture Coffee from Cary, NC. (Great =
stuff wherever it comes from).
On Oct 16, 2007, at 3:01 PM, =
Erik Snapper wrote:
If = you live in the area try Murky Coffee in Arlington (or D.C.). I visited = it while in the area and definitely enjoyed it. I think it's well worth = seeking out quality commercial operations to compare home-roasting = results with. They don't all char their coffee. The majority = of commercial operations are not all that great, sure, but you can say = the same thing about the majority of restaurants, grocery stores, etc. = Personally, I don't mind one bit that it's so easy to home roast great = coffee! On 10/15/07, Richard Ferguson <coffee> = wrote: I live = outside the DC area in Virginia and have stumbled across a few = local roasters.  The trend I have found is they all roast very = dark.  At one shop, the lightest roast they had was a full city+ = and the other was probably vienna.  I have only been roasting for = about 6 months but I find the most flavor/fruitiness at the lighter = roasts.  Is this just to please the masses or am I missing = something? richard= homeroast mailing list http://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast To change your = personal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to = http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings = Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-90--490345348--

50) From: Larry Johnson
Counter Culture roasts for the shop I like in Athens, even though they
(Aromas) are right across the street from a Jittery Joe's, who roasts
right here in town. Counter Culture's coffee is at least as good as
Joe's, from my experience, and Aromas pulls a much better shot than
Joe's in my opinion. Not sure if it's the beans or the baristas. Of
course, I don't know squat about espresso, so I may be wrong about the
shot quality.......but I don't think so.
Going to Aromas tonight, as a matter of fact. They've got a new beer
on tap that I need to try - Loose Cannon's Heavy Seas. I bet I'll
enjoy my morning cup tomorrow a little more than usual.
On 10/16/07, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Larry J

51) From: Sandy Andina
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First time I ever tried Counter Culture was in May '05 at Pheasant  
Creek Coffee in Apex, NC (my duo was playing there enroute from  
WIlmington, NC to the MD and VA DC suburbs). Greg brewed me up a  
presspot of Peru that was so good I kept wanting to reach behind me  
for a cup *while* I was singing; afterward, he pulled me a God shot  
of CC's Toscana blend, made on a brand-new PID'd LaMarzocco. Ooooh!
On Oct 16, 2007, at 3:32 PM, Larry Johnson wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
--Apple-Mail-91--488079002
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	charset-ASCII
First time I ever tried Counter Culture was in May '05 at Pheasant Creek =
Coffee in Apex, NC (my duo was playing there enroute from WIlmington, NC =
to the MD and VA DC suburbs). Greg brewed me up a presspot of Peru that =
was so good I kept wanting to reach behind me for a cup *while* I was =
singing; afterward, he pulled me a God shot of CC's Toscana blend, made =
on a brand-new PID'd LaMarzocco. Ooooh!
On Oct 16, 2007, at =
3:32 PM, Larry Johnson wrote:
Counter Culture roasts for the shop I like in = Athens, even though they(Aromas) are = right across the street from a Jittery Joe's, who roastsright here in town. Counter Culture's coffee is at = least as good asJoe's, from my experience, and = Aromas pulls a much better shot thanJoe's in my = opinion. Not sure if it's the beans or the baristas. Ofcourse, I don't know squat about espresso, so I may = be wrong about theshot quality.......but I = don't think so.Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-91--488079002--

52) From: Robert Gulley
At 04:01 PM 10/16/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>
I agree - since I started cooking seriously (another engrossing 
hobby) I find it harder and harder to find a good meal out. Recently 
my wife and I spent $100 on a dinner (a true rarity) because she 
wanted us to go some place special for my birthday. I had steak, she 
had salmon. While our meals were good - they were not THAT good - and 
I have made equally good if not better meals at home. The more you 
get used to high quality to harder it is to pay for lessor quality. 
Thus, we eat most meals at home. As Erik said, I don't mind one bit 
that it's so easy to roast great coffee at home, nor that it's so 
easy to make exceptional food at home!
Robert RG
"I have measured out my life with coffee spoons."  ~T.S. Eliot  

53) From: Robert Gulley
Out of curiosity, Sandy - what's a "God shot?" Sounds heavenly! 
(Being new to all this I don't know if that is a technical term or not?)
Robert RG
At 04:44 PM 10/16/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>
"I have measured out my life with coffee spoons."  ~T.S. Eliot  

54) From: Michael I
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Sandy,
 
You’re correct – I go to Murky pretty regularly and that’s what =
they use,
and they don’t use anything after 14 days post roast.  They are =
capable of
making some very, very good shots, though, as with all places, it =
depends a
lot on the barista.
 
I’ve also had good luck at a place called the Java Green Café on =
19th near
L, which was a pleasant surprise for me  And the new Illy Café in the
Renaissance M St. Hotel (M & New Hampshire) can make a good shot, too, =
as
you might expect (or hope).
 
-AdkMike  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Sandy Andina
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 4:07 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +why do commercial roasters roast so dark?
 
I thought Murky didn't roast (at least not the last time I was there in
August) but instead used Counter Culture Coffee from Cary, NC. (Great =
stuff
wherever it comes from).
On Oct 16, 2007, at 3:01 PM, Erik Snapper wrote:
If you live in the area try Murky Coffee in Arlington (or D.C.). I =
visited
it while in the area and definitely enjoyed it. I think it's well worth
seeking out quality commercial operations to compare home-roasting =
results
with. They don't all char their coffee. 
The majority of commercial operations are not all that great, sure, but =
you
can say the same thing about the majority of restaurants, grocery =
stores,
etc. Personally, I don't mind one bit that it's so easy to home roast =
great
coffee! 
 

55) From: Sandy Andina
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	charsetNDOWS-1252;
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	format=flowed
My sister lives on the border of Arlington & McLean, and back in 2005  =
I turned her on to Murky, after having read Nick Cho's posts on  
CoffeeGeek and tasted Counter Culture's Toscana blend.  She has  
become a regular at the Arlington location (preferring to stay out of  =
the District except when I'm in town and we can go restaurant-hopping  =
or pen-shopping at Fahrney's).  They have very high standards, pour  
great shots and exquisitely gorgeous latte art; and the law students  
who hang out all day wi-fi surfing are very courteous about making  
room for us old farts to sit and sip (especially when it's too darn  
hot to sit outside on the patio).  It's always a highlight of my  
visits to Arlington.
On Oct 16, 2007, at 4:24 PM, Michael I wrote:
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Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
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My sister lives on the border of Arlington & McLean, and back in =
2005 I turned her on to Murky, after having read Nick Cho's posts on =
CoffeeGeek and tasted Counter Culture's Toscana blend.  She has become =
a regular at the Arlington location (preferring to stay out of the =
District except when I'm in town and we can go restaurant-hopping or =
pen-shopping at Fahrney's).  They have very high standards, pour great =
shots and exquisitely gorgeous latte art; and the law students who hang =
out all day wi-fi surfing are very courteous about making room for us =
old farts to sit and sip (especially when it's too darn hot to sit =
outside on the patio).  It's always a highlight of my visits to =
Arlington.
On Oct 16, 2007, at 4:24 PM, Michael I =
wrote:
Sandy, You’re correct – I go to Murky = pretty regularly and that’s what they use, and they don’t use = anything after 14 days post roast.  They are capable of making some = very, very good shots, though, as with all places, it depends a lot on = the barista. I’ve also had good luck at a = place called the Java Green Café on 19th near L, which was a pleasant = surprise for me  And the new Illy Café in the Renaissance M St. = Hotel (M & New Hampshire) can make a good shot, too, as you might = expect (or hope). -AdkMike From: homeroast-admin= s.com [mailto:homeroast-adm= in] On Behalf Of Sandy = Andina Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 4:07 = PM To: homeroast= s.com Subject: Re: +why do commercial = roasters roast so dark? I thought Murky didn't roast = (at least not the last time I was there in August) but instead used = Counter Culture Coffee from Cary, NC. (Great stuff wherever it comes = from).On Oct 16, = 2007, at 3:01 PM, Erik Snapper = wrote: If you live in the area try Murky Coffee in Arlington (or D.C.). I visited it while = in the area and definitely enjoyed it. I think it's well worth seeking = out quality commercial operations to compare home-roasting results with. = They don't all char their = coffee.The majority = of commercial operations are not all that great, sure, but you can say = the same thing about the majority of restaurants, grocery stores, etc. = Personally, I don't mind one bit that it's so easy to home roast great = coffee!  Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-95--484970084--

56) From:
I met a guy on vacation this summer who buys unground *$ beans at the groce=
ry store, takes them home, and roasts them even more in his oven!  He was p=
roud to say he was a homeroaster too.  I just grinned and changed the subje=
ct.
Tim
---- seth Grandeau  wrote: 
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offees (Folgers, Maxwell House, etc), that when Starbucks came out with the=
ir darker roasts, we saw darker roast = more flavor.  For flavorless bean=
s, that's surely true.  Thus, it gets set in your mind that darker roast =
= more flavor and that's what you look for when buying a roasted coffee. =
 I know I'm coming from that perspective and it's been hard to stop my roas=
t at C+.  It just looks so light!  But I am finding new flavors when I do. =
:)
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asted coffees (they roast right in the store).  Many of their "medium" roas=
ts were nearly black and shiny with oil.  I'm guessing the consistency of t=
he roast may vary a bit. :)
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cramble challenge with star power.
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oct

57) From: James Raven
what type of roaster do you use? does it roast more than 1/2 lb. ?
jim
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5.
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ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettingsBoo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare=
!http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotma=ilnews=

58) From: Les
Jim,
I use a RK drum.  I roast 1-1.25 pounds of coffee per batch.  I have roasted
from 1 bean to 4 pounds.
Les
On 10/17/07, James Raven  wrote:
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59) From: Floyd Lozano
I'm a chef!  I just went to Mario Batali's restaurant, got a 7 course meal,
brought it home and microwaved it!!11!!
-F
On 10/16/07, thirddayhomeroaster <
thirddayhomeroaster> wrote:
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HomeRoast Digest