HomeRoast Digest


Topic: espresso equipment question relevant to homeroasters (38 msgs / 2015 lines)
1) From: Michael Jordan
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consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to 
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Dear Homeroast group: I have been homeroasting for a couple of years 
(SC/TO)  and  now (suddenly and inexplicably) I have the urge to get
into espresso.  I have been shopping carefully and  have an equipment
question which is best posed to home roasters.  I am trying to decide
between several very nice HX/E61 machines and the Expobar Brewtus II,
which has an adjustable temp double boiler.  I am intrigued by the
ability to adjust shot temperatures for different  types of beans/roasts
because I expect to roast a wide variety of beans.  How important or
useful do you think the ability to pull shots at different (precise)
temps would be for a home roaster?   Thanks!- Mike J (feel free to
respond off list, if you want to)

2) From: miKe mcKoffee
The ability to pull shots at accurate temps is critical whether home roast
or not. FWIW while a dual boiler machine like BII is easier to change temp
via pushing buttoms, with an HX machine shot temp is managed on the fly just
as accurately via flush and timing. It does take more experience to easily
nail any shot temp on demand between 196 to 206f +or- <0.5f variance, yet
very doable. With the advent of tools like Eric's E61 digital group
thermometer even easier than counting from flash.
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
www.mcKonaKoffee.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/	From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Michael Jordan
	Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 6:28 AM
	
	Dear Homeroast group: I have been homeroasting for a couple of years
(SC/TO)  and  now (suddenly and inexplicably) I have the urge to get into
espresso.  I have been shopping carefully and  have an equipment question
which is best posed to home roasters.  I am trying to decide between several
very nice HX/E61 machines and the Expobar Brewtus II, which has an
adjustable temp double boiler.  I am intrigued by the ability to adjust shot
temperatures for different  types of beans/roasts because I expect to roast
a wide variety of beans.  How important or useful do you think the ability
to pull shots at different (precise) temps would be for a home roaster?
Thanks!- Mike J (feel free to respond off list, if you want to)

3) From: Brian Kamnetz
I for one would be interested in seeing the responses to this request.
Brian
On 10/23/07, Michael Jordan  wrote:
<Snip>

4) From: Mike Koenig
Michael,
There are certainly people on the list with far more expertise
regarding adjusting shot temp. for different beans, but I'll give you
my point of view:
I'm using a PID'd Silvia, so I do have very precise control over
boiler temp.  However, there are so many other variables to control
(degree of roast, grind, tamp, dose etc..) that I don't think I could
detect small differences in temperature in the face of the other
variables without a statistically HUGE number of blind tastings of
shots.  Since I become somewhat intolerable to be near after > 4 shots
in a short time, due to too much caffeine, this is not something I've
been willing to undertake.  So I prefer to leave my temp setting at a
"midpoint" that I've found by measuring temperature, adjusting and
finding the points that produce defective shots, and then leaving it
in the middle of that range.
I also only occasionally dabble with SO espresso, primarily sticking
to Tom's blends.
So, my humble opinion is that I would put other factors ahead of quick
adjustability of shot temp in machine selection.  I'd be more
concerned with having a machine with high temp stability, both during
a shot, and shot-to-shot.  Also, If you pull multiple shots in a row
(for guests, etc) the HX will avoid the wait for the boiler to
recycle.
--mike
On 10/23/07, Michael Jordan  wrote:
<Snip>

5) From: James Raven
If I were to avail myself of an Andreja Premium, doesn't that unit have bui=
lt in thermometers in the face housing? Would those be used to monitor the =
water temp and ther coffee temp upon arrival? Just looking for Information.=
 I would love to acquire an Achille lever shot unit plus they are totally c=
ool looking but wouldn't an Andreja be a little more relivant of a long ter=
m purchase for more uses? Again info searching?? Got some info for me mike?=
 Thanks,
Jim
<Snip>
t
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p
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ust
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the advent of tools like Eric's E61 digital group
<Snip>
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ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettingsWindows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook – together at last.  =
Get it now.http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=CL10062=6971033=

6) From: James Raven
Hey Michael, nice shot in the 93 championship.(couldn't resist, too easy an=
d I'm feeling lazy today)  Anyway, I have much the same exact info search g=
oing on right now and want to know if you'll share any private off list res=
ponses you get with me, I would certainly appreciate it. Yeah I bet you can=
't live one day without hearing some inane reference to the name huh? sorry=
, I'm just a smart ass sometimes, no harm,  no foul intended! Thanks,
Jim
From: Michael.Jordan
To: homeroast
Subject: +Re: espresso equipment question relevant to homeroasters
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 09:27:47 -0400
Dear Homeroast group: I have been homeroasting for a couple of years  (SC/T=
O)  and  now (suddenly and inexplicably) I have the urge to get into espres=
so.  I have been shopping carefully and  have an equipment question which i=
s best posed to home roasters.  I am trying to decide between several very =
nice HX/E61 machines and the Expobar Brewtus II, which has an adjustable te=
mp double boiler.  I am intrigued by the ability to adjust shot temperature=
s for different  types of beans/roasts because I expect to roast a wide var=
iety of beans.  How important or useful do you think the ability to pull sh=
ots at different (precise) temps would be for a home roaster?   Thanks!- Mi=
ke J (feel free to respond off list, if you want to)
Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café. Stop =
by today.http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Oc=tWLtagline=

7) From: Barry Luterman
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Probably the most important variable for pulling successful shots is =
consistent temperature and temp control. With the Brewtus temp control =
is perfect and done for you.The machine is easy to master and seldom =
offers less than a perfect shot. On the other hand a HX machine is able =
to give the same performance but, and it's a big but, the operator has =
to be experienced and alert while pulling the shot. For me and my needs =
I much prefer a double boiler to a HX machine. As far as I am concerned =
the only advantage to a HX machine is a slightly lower price.

8) From: Les
I would suggest that you spend a few hours on the home-barista
website.  They have tons of information on machines, techniques and
all of your questions as well as many questions you have not asked
will be answered.
Les
On 10/23/07, James Raven  wrote:
<Snip>
and I'm feeling lazy today)  Anyway, I have much the same exact info search=
 going on right now and want to know if you'll share any private off list r=
esponses you get with me, I would certainly appreciate it. Yeah I bet you c=
an't live one day without hearing some inane reference to the name huh? sor=
ry, I'm just a smart ass sometimes, no harm,  no foul intended! Thanks,
<Snip>
/TO)  and  now (suddenly and inexplicably) I have the urge to get into espr=
esso.  I have been shopping carefully and  have an equipment question which=
 is best posed to home roasters.  I am trying to decide between several ver=
y nice HX/E61 machines and the Expobar Brewtus II, which has an adjustable =
temp double boiler.  I am intrigued by the ability to adjust shot temperatu=
res for different  types of beans/roasts because I expect to roast a wide v=
ariety of beans.  How important or useful do you think the ability to pull =
shots at different (precise) temps would be for a home roaster?   Thanks!- =
Mike J (feel free to respond off list, if you want to)
<Snip>
p by today.
<Snip>
OctWLtagline
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>

9) From: Leo Zick
ive seen more negative reviews about the bII than positive.  while its a
great machine with a great concept (double boiler) it has more than its fai=
r
share of problems, and WLL doesnt seem to be easy to work with for repairs.
On 10/23/07, James Raven  wrote:
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10) From: Barry Luterman
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
The main problem with the machine has been the p-stat. Expobar uses a =
cheap p-stat. It lasts between 1 and 2 years. It is easy to replace and =
should be replaced by the Jaeger p-stat sold by Chris Coffee. After that =
no problems. Had mine 2 years it's on 14 hours per day  7 days a week. =
Only down time was when the p-stat went. It took a half hour for me to =
replace it and I am notorious for having 10 thumbs.

11) From: Gary Townsend
 Michael Jordan wrote:
<Snip>
Mike,
I got bit hard by the espresso bug soon after learning how to homeroast over
3 years ago.
No matter what you roast at home, a quality espresso machine is going to
amplify the good and bad in all your roasts!
Figure on spending $1,500 for a machine, and another $500. to $800. for a
real grinder.
Also figure on roasting 2 X the amount of beans that you are currently
roasting.
Figure 3 X that amount when your new 'friends' drop by...
I bought a slightly used Livia 90S 2  years ago, and she's doing great.
But, on Sat I drove 400 miles to pick up a '92 Faema S-87 2 group commercial
machine for my winter restoration project.
I plan on building a true wet bar in my pool room, just to showcase it...
Maybe this machine would look nice at your place?
Andreja
Gary

12) From: Sandy Andina
--Apple-Mail-77-141373004
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I have read complaints about the Teflon coating flaking off the  
Brewtus' and Office's (non-e61) group and getting into the water,  
much the same as the metal plating flaking off various parts in the  
Livia and Isomac Téa and finding its way into the brew water and hot- =
water tap. Wonder if all three mfrs. subbed out the plating work to  
the same company?
On Oct 23, 2007, at 7:41 PM, Leo Zick wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
--Apple-Mail-77-141373004
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I have read complaints about the Teflon coating flaking off the Brewtus' =
and Office's (non-e61) group and getting into the water, much the same =
as the metal plating flaking off various parts in the Livia and Isomac =
Téa and finding its way into the brew water and hot-water tap. Wonder =
if all three mfrs. subbed out the plating work to the same =
company?On Oct 23, 2007, at 7:41 PM, Leo Zick =
wrote:
ive seen more negative reviews about the bII than = positive.  while its a great machine with a great concept (double = boiler) it has more than its fair share of problems, and WLL doesnt seem = to be easy to work with for repairs. = Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-77-141373004--

13) From: Floyd Lozano
Given the recent science (or scare reporting, you pick) I would shun
anything with Teflon in or on it for food use.  Whatever happened to good
old cast iron?  Or bronze.  Progress?  Bah!
-F
On 10/23/07, Sandy Andina  wrote:
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 and
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e
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air
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s.
<Snip>

14) From: Barry Luterman
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
No Teflon on the Brewtus that I know of. The new Brewtus has non-stick =
frother. That may be coated internally with Teflon. I know they say not =
to clean the new frother tube only the tips.

15) From: Sandy Andina
--Apple-Mail-91-192214443
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I hear Chris' Coffee is doing a land-office business buffing the  
chrome plating off customers' groupheads and PFs.  I have Silverstone- =
lined pans with which I use only wood or plastic utensils, but I  
mostly use anodized aluminum, stainless, or cast iron--and either  
season them like crazy, use some oil, or resign myself to scouring.
On Oct 24, 2007, at 9:16 AM, Floyd Lozano wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
--Apple-Mail-91-192214443
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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	charsetO-8859-1
I hear Chris' Coffee is doing a land-office business buffing the chrome =
plating off customers' groupheads and PFs.  I have Silverstone-lined =
pans with which I use only wood or plastic utensils, but I mostly use =
anodized aluminum, stainless, or cast iron--and either season them like =
crazy, use some oil, or resign myself to scouring.
On Oct =
24, 2007, at 9:16 AM, Floyd Lozano wrote:
Given = the recent science (or scare reporting, you pick) I would shun anything = with Teflon in or on it for food use.  Whatever happened to good old = cast iron?  Or bronze.  Progress?  Bah! = -F   On 10/23/07, = Sandy Andina <sandraandina> = wrote: I have read complaints about the Teflon = coating flaking off the Brewtus' and Office's (non-e61) group and = getting into the water, much the same as the metal plating flaking off = various parts in the Livia and Isomac Téa and finding its way into the = brew water and hot-water tap. Wonder if all three mfrs. subbed out the = plating work to the same company? On = Oct 23, 2007, at 7:41 PM, Leo Zick wrote: ive seen more negative reviews about the bII than = positive.  while its a great machine with a great concept (double = boiler) it has more than its fair share of problems, and WLL doesnt seem = to be easy to work with for repairs. =   Sandy = www.sandyandina.com www.sass-music.com Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-91-192214443--

16) From: James Raven
what is an "HX" machine and who makes the best double boiler machine?
jim
From: lutermanb001
To: homeroast
Subject: +Re: espresso equipment question relevant to homeroasters
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:28:43 -1000
Probably the most important variable for pulling successful shots is consis=
tent temperature and temp control. With the Brewtus temp control is perfect=
 and done for you.The machine is easy to master and seldom offers less than=
 a perfect shot. On the other hand a HX machine is able to give the same pe=
rformance but, and it's a big but, the operator has to be experienced and a=
lert while pulling the shot. For me and my needs I much prefer a double boi=
ler to a HX machine. As far as I am concerned the only advantage to a HX ma=
chine is a slightly lower price.

17) From: Sandy Andina
--Apple-Mail-110-292889800
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HX means heat exchanger--a tube that runs through the boiler and  
carries clean water that is heated by conduction by the boiler water-- 
the water in the tube is used for brewing and hot water while the  
boiler water is used for steam.  It lets you steam and brew either  
simultaneously or one immediately after the other.  AFAIK, there are  
only four companies making single-group home double boilers--Kitchen  
Aid (okay, but not really up to the standards of the best HX  
machines, especially its amateurish steam wand which makes too-frothy  
foam), Expobar (Brewtus and Brewtus II--good bang for the buck,  
Spanish-made, e61 groups, but early models had electronics issues and  
there are latter-day reports of Teflon flaking from the steam wands),  
LaSpaziale (robust, rotary pump, but expensive, requires higher  
voltage and plumbing in, and the portafilters are a non-standard  
52mm), and LaMarzocco (if you have to ask you can't afford it, even  
for a one-group model, and it must be plumbed in).
On Oct 25, 2007, at 4:26 PM, James Raven wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
--Apple-Mail-110-292889800
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charsetO-8859-1
HX means heat exchanger--a tube that runs through the boiler and carries =
clean water that is heated by conduction by the boiler water--the water =
in the tube is used for brewing and hot water while the boiler water is =
used for steam.  It lets you steam and brew either simultaneously or =
one immediately after the other.  AFAIK, there are only four companies =
making single-group home double boilers--Kitchen Aid (okay, but not =
really up to the standards of the best HX machines, especially its =
amateurish steam wand which makes too-frothy foam), Expobar (Brewtus and =
Brewtus II--good bang for the buck, Spanish-made, e61 groups, but early =
models had electronics issues and there are latter-day reports of Teflon =
flaking from the steam wands), LaSpaziale (robust, rotary pump, but =
expensive, requires higher voltage and plumbing in, and the portafilters =
are a non-standard 52mm), and LaMarzocco (if you have to ask you can't =
afford it, even for a one-group model, and it must be plumbed =
in).
On Oct 25, 2007, at 4:26 PM, James Raven =
wrote:
what is an = "HX" machine and who makes the best double boiler machine?jimFrom: lutermanb001<= /div>To: homeroast= s.comSubject: +Re: espresso equipment = question relevant to homeroastersDate: Tue, 23 = Oct 2007 12:28:43 -1000 Probably the most important = variable for pulling successful shots is consistent temperature and temp = control. With the Brewtus temp control is perfect and done for you.The = machine is easy to master and seldom offers less than a perfect shot. On = the other hand a HX machine is able to give the same performance but, = and it's a big but, the operator has to be experienced and alert while = pulling the shot. For me and my needs I much prefer a double boiler to a = HX machine. As far as I am concerned the only advantage to a HX machine = is a slightly lower price.----- = Original Message -----From: Michael = JordanTo: homeroast= s.comSent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 = 3:27 AMSubject: +Re: espresso equipment = question relevant to homeroasters Dear Homeroast group: I have = been homeroasting for a couple of years  (SC/TO)  and  now (suddenly and = inexplicably) I have the urge to get into espresso.  I have been shopping = carefully and  have an = equipment question which is best posed to home roasters.  I am trying to decide between = several very nice HX/E61 machines and the Expobar Brewtus II, which has = an adjustable temp double boiler. = I am intrigued by the ability to adjust shot temperatures for = different  types of = beans/roasts because I expect to roast a wide variety of beans.  How important or useful do = you think the ability to pull shots at different (precise) temps would = be for a home roaster?   = Thanks!- Mike J (feel free to respond off list, if you want = to) Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! = Try Windows Live OneCare!http://onec=are.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews=homeroast mailing listhttp://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change your personal list settings (digest = options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings = Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-110-292889800--

18) From: Bryan Wray
HX= Heat exchanger.  Basically it is a machine with one boiler that is used for both water for brewing the espresso and for producing steam.  A P-Stat monitors the pressure in the boiler to adjust/keep temperature consistent.  Someone correct me/add to what I said if something is wrong/missing.  That was a lot of "/" in one post.
I personally (opinions are going to vary widely on this) think that the best commercial double boiler machine out there is a Synesso Cyncra, with the La Marazoccos closely behind.  Best home machine?  If no budget, then single group Cyncra or LM GS/3 would suit you just fine :0).  More realistically, check out some of the HX machines over on www.chriscoffee.com.  He has some great machines.  I'm personally fond of the Quickmill line.
-Bry
 
Bryan Wray
NaDean's Coffee Place
Kalamazoo, MI
"It is my hope that people realize that coffee is more than just a caffeine delivery service, it can be a culinary art"- Chris Owens.
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19) From: Tom Murray
"LaSpaziale (robust, rotary pump, but expensive, requires higher voltage 
and plumbing in, and the portafilters are a non-standard 52mm)"
Sandy
The LaSpaziale does not require higher voltage. it runs on 120V. It has 
an internal switch to run on either 15 or 20 amps. Set for 15 amps only 
one boiler can run at a time. Set it for 20 amps and both can run at the 
same time.
portafilters are 53 mm, still non standard but it works the same as a 
58. It really only come to be a problem if you have a big collection of 
Thor tampers. It also can be run off a flow jet with an accumulator
Tom
Sandy Andina wrote:
<Snip>

20) From: James Raven
hey gary, i know it would look great at my place, let me know about you car=
rying on that tradition.
Jim
From: garybt3
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Re: espresso equipment question relevant to homeroasters
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:48:47 -0500
 Michael Jordan wrote:
 I have the urge to get into espresso.  I have been shopping carefully and =
 have an equipment question which is best posed to home roasters.  I am try=
ing to decide between several very nice HX/E61 machines and the Expobar Bre=
wtus II, which has an adjustable temp double boiler.  I am intrigued by the=
 ability to adjust shot temperatures for different  types of beans/roasts b=
ecause I expect to roast a wide variety of beans.  How important or useful =
do you think the ability to pull shots at different (precise) temps would b=
e for a home roaster?
Mike,
I got bit hard by the espresso bug soon after learning how to homeroast ove=
r 3 years ago.
No matter what you roast at home, a quality espresso machine is going to am=
plify the good and bad in all your roasts!
Figure on spending $1,500 for a machine, and another $500. to $800. for a r=
eal grinder.
Also figure on roasting 2 X the amount of beans that you are currently roas=
ting.
Figure 3 X that amount when your new 'friends' drop by...
I bought a slightly used Livia 90S 2  years ago, and she's doing great.
But, on Sat I drove 400 miles to pick up a '92 Faema S-87 2 group commercia=
l machine for my winter restoration project.
I plan on building a true wet bar in my pool room, just to showcase it...
Maybe this machine would look nice at your place? Andreja
Gary
Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café. Stop =
by today.http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Oc=tWLtagline=

21) From: Les
Sandy,
The LaSpaziale takes a 53.25mm tamper and it is an odd size.
Les
On 10/25/07, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>

22) From: James Raven
Bry -
what about the Andreja Premium, how does that stand up IYO, just curious an=
d am looking for several opinions from many a different people with a wide =
variety of experience with several types of machines. So please feel free t=
o tell me your EXACT opinion without sparring feelings or product connectio=
ns, looking for the price of around 1200 - 1500 bucks as that is my savings=
 for this buy. I'm trying to do the best on a low budget. The other half, w=
ould rather i get a Miss sylvia, I think she likes the name, ya know?
Thanks for whatever you can give me straight up. 
Mucho Appreciation,
Jim
From: bwray_thatcoffeeguy
Subject: RE: +Re: espresso equipment question relevant to homeroasters
To: homeroast
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 18:17:25 -0700
HX= Heat exchanger.  Basically it is a machine with one boiler that is us=
ed for both water for brewing the espresso and for producing steam.  A P-St=
at monitors the pressure in the boiler to adjust/keep temperature consisten=
t.  Someone correct me/add to what I said if something is wrong/missing.  T=
hat was a lot of "/" in one post.
I personally (opinions are going to vary widely on this) think that the bes=
t commercial double boiler machine out there is a Synesso Cyncra, with the =
La Marazoccos closely behind.  Best home machine?  If no budget, then singl=
e group Cyncra or LM GS/3 would suit you just fine :0).  More realistically=
, check out some of the HX machines over on www.chriscoffee.com.  He has so=
me great machines.  I'm personally fond of the Quickmill line.
-Bry
Bryan Wray
NaDean's Coffee Place
Kalamazoo, MI
"It is my hope that people realize that coffee is more than just a caffeine=
 delivery service, it can be a culinary art"- Chris Owens.
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection aroundhttp://mail.yahoo.comHelp yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café. Stop =
by today.http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Oc=tWLtagline=

23) From: Sandy Andina
--Apple-Mail-1-316162322
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I'm not Bry but I'll try.  I own a Silvia.  She is a fine machine,  
but Andreja can do more, especially the Premium:  fully articulating  
steam wand for different size pitchers, e61 group for greater  
stability, heat exchanger so you can steam and brew in quick  
succession or even simultaneously.  All that sexy shiny stainless  
steel too. But the Andreja is bigger, so you might have a tight  
squeeze under cabinets when you fill 'er up; and that e61 group is  
exposed and HOT--so you can inadvertently burn yourself if you're not  =
careful (and so can curious pets or kids).
On Oct 25, 2007, at 10:50 PM, James Raven wrote
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<Snip>
 
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
www.sass-music.com
--Apple-Mail-1-316162322
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charsetO-8859-1
I'm not Bry but I'll try.  I own a Silvia.  She is a fine machine, =
but Andreja can do more, especially the Premium:  fully articulating =
steam wand for different size pitchers, e61 group for greater stability, =
heat exchanger so you can steam and brew in quick succession or even =
simultaneously.  All that sexy shiny stainless steel too. But the =
Andreja is bigger, so you might have a tight squeeze under cabinets when =
you fill 'er up; and that e61 group is exposed and HOT--so you can =
inadvertently burn yourself if you're not careful (and so can curious =
pets or kids).
On Oct 25, = 2007, at 10:50 PM, James Raven wrote
Bry = - what about the Andreja Premium, how does that stand = up IYO, just curious and am looking for several opinions from many a = different people with a wide variety of experience with several types of = machines. So please feel free to tell me your EXACT opinion without = sparring feelings or product connections, looking for the price of = around 1200 - 1500 bucks as that is my savings for this buy. I'm trying = to do the best on a low budget. The other half, would rather i get a = Miss sylvia, I think she likes the name, ya know?Thanks for whatever you can give me straight = up. Mucho Appreciation, From: bwray_thatcoffeeguy= mSubject: RE: +Re: espresso = equipment question relevant to homeroastersTo: homeroast= s.comDate: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 18:17:25 = -0700 HX= Heat exchanger.  Basically it is a machine = with one boiler that is used for both water for brewing the espresso and = for producing steam.  A = P-Stat monitors the pressure in the boiler to adjust/keep temperature = consistent.  Someone = correct me/add to what I said if something is wrong/missing.  That was a lot of "/" in one = post. I personally (opinions are going to vary widely on = this) think that the best commercial double boiler machine out there is = a Synesso Cyncra, with the La Marazoccos closely behind.  Best home machine?  If no budget, then single = group Cyncra or LM GS/3 would suit you just fine :0).  More realistically, check out = some of the HX machines over on www.chriscoffee.com.  He has some great = machines.  I'm personally = fond of the Quickmill line. -Bry Bryan = WrayNaDean's Coffee PlaceKalamazoo, MI "It is my hope that people = realize that coffee is more than just a caffeine delivery service, it = can be a culinary art"- Chris Owens. Do You Yahoo!?Tired of = spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection aroundhttp://mail.yahoo.comHelp yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the = Messenger Café. Stop by today.http:/= /www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLta= glinehomeroast mailing listhttp://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change your personal list settings (digest = options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings = Sandywww.sass-music.com
= = --Apple-Mail-1-316162322--

24) From: Les
JIm,
As Pecan Jim says, "The espresso machine is an accessory to the grinder, no=
t
the other way around."  If I had $1500.00 to spend, I would buy the Expobar
Office Control and a Mazzer Mini.  Once you get good then I would upgrade m=
y
grinder to a MACAP Conical.  It is a much more forgiving grinder than my
Mazzer Major.   I have an Expobar Control.  I like the electronic controls.
I like the modified E-61 grouphead.  After learning the HX dance I have ver=
y
good tempature control.  I think they are one of the best values for the
dollar out there.
The most important thing is to learn your machine!  The machine is only a
tool.  Some tools are easier to use than others, but it is the barista that
is pulling the shot, not the machine.
Les
On 10/25/07, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>
nd
<Snip>
ger
<Snip>
l
<Snip>
ght
<Snip>
oup
<Snip>
ide
<Snip>
 to
<Snip>
ns,
<Snip>
or
<Snip>
d
<Snip>
p
<Snip>
OctWLtagline
<Snip>

25) From: James Raven
Thank you Les for all your opinions, advice, and knowledge on this topic. I=
 TRULY do appreciate it all from all with their experienced knowledge. I ne=
ed to make a purchase soon as I'm down to basics now and am just barely get=
ting by with the stashed equipment I have been forced to accept for savings=
 purposes. But I keep ordering coffee. I am getting a Mazzer mini to start =
with, heard to much good about them to not get one. I do understand the gri=
nd does make the diffeence, as I've herd the coffee advisers all say so in =
thei own ways. Just ant the best machine for the buck and really just don't=
 want to screw with it except for standard maintenance. What part of the go=
od ole US OF A are you from Les? Northwesterner aren't ya?
thanks again,
Jim
From: les.albjerg
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Re: espresso equipment question relevant to homeroasters
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 22:01:02 -0700
JIm,
As Pecan Jim says, "The espresso machine is an accessory to the grinder, no=
t the other way around."  If I had $1500.00 to spend, I would buy the Expob=
ar Office Control and a Mazzer Mini.  Once you get good then I would upgrad=
e my grinder to a MACAP Conical.  It is a much more forgiving grinder than =
my Mazzer Major.   I have an Expobar Control.  I like the electronic contro=
ls.  I like the modified E-61 grouphead.  After learning the HX dance I hav=
e very good tempature control.  I think they are one of the best values for=
 the dollar out there.
The most important thing is to learn your machine!  The machine is only a t=
ool.  Some tools are easier to use than others, but it is the barista that =
is pulling the shot, not the machine.
Les
On 10/25/07, Sandy Andina  wrote:
I'm not Bry but I'll try.  I own a Silvia.  She is a fine machine, but Andr=
eja can do more, especially the Premium:  fully articulating steam wand for=
 different size pitchers, e61 group for greater stability, heat exchanger s=
o you can steam and brew in quick succession or even simultaneously.  All t=
hat sexy shiny stainless steel too. But the Andreja is bigger, so you might=
 have a tight squeeze under cabinets when you fill 'er up; and that e61 gro=
up is exposed and HOT--so you can inadvertently burn yourself if you're not=
 careful (and so can curious pets or kids).
On Oct 25, 2007, at 10:50 PM, James Raven wrote
Bry -
what about the Andreja Premium, how does that stand up IYO, just curious an=
d am looking for several opinions from many a different people with a wide =
variety of experience with several types of machines. So please feel free t=
o tell me your EXACT opinion without sparring feelings or product connectio=
ns, looking for the price of around 1200 - 1500 bucks as that is my savings=
 for this buy. I'm trying to do the best on a low budget. The other half, w=
ould rather i get a Miss sylvia, I think she likes the name, ya know?
Thanks for whatever you can give me straight up.
Mucho Appreciation,
Jim
From: bwray_thatcoffeeguy
Subject: RE: +Re: espresso equipment question relevant to homeroasters
To: homeroast
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 18:17:25 -0700
HX= Heat exchanger.  Basically it is a machine with one boiler that is us=
ed for both water for brewing the espresso and for producing steam.  A P-St=
at monitors the pressure in the boiler to adjust/keep temperature consisten=
t.   Someone correct me/add to what I said if something is wrong/missing.  =
That was a lot of "/" in one post.
I personally (opinions are going to vary widely on this) think that the bes=
t commercial double boiler machine out there is a Synesso Cyncra, with the =
La Marazoccos closely behind.  Best home machine?   If no budget, then sing=
le group Cyncra or LM GS/3 would suit you just fine :0).  More realisticall=
y, check out some of the HX machines over on www.chriscoffee.com.  He has s=
ome great machines.  I'm personally fond of the Quickmill line.
-Bry
Bryan Wray
NaDean's Coffee Place
Kalamazoo, MI
"It is my hope that people realize that coffee is more than just a caffeine=
 delivery service, it can be a culinary art"- Chris Owens.
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection aroundhttp://mail.yahoo.comHelp yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café. Stop =
by today.http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Oc=tWLtagline

26) From: Brett Mason
James you rock!  Mazzer Mini is an incredibly smart start - you won't be
disappointed!
Brett
On 10/26/07, James Raven  wrote:
<Snip>
to
<Snip>
ay
<Snip>
st
<Snip>
er
<Snip>
ce
<Snip>
ues
<Snip>
at
<Snip>
nd
<Snip>
ger
<Snip>
l
<Snip>
ght
<Snip>
oup
<Snip>
ide
<Snip>
 to
<Snip>
ns,
<Snip>
or
<Snip>
d
<Snip>
n
<Snip>
p
<Snip>
OctWLtagline
<Snip>
mailnews
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

27) From: James Raven
Thanks Brett, 
I'm hoping it all works out to do the brew  for two. I want to actually ope=
n a shop much like Mike has, in my dreams I know but dreams are what drive =
us, Right? 
Hava Good Safe Trip Everyone Lucky Enough to Make it to Oakland.  Brett, Th=
ey ROCK!!!!!
Ordering my Mazzer Mini Tomorrow with a cup of Misty Valley. 
Jim At Home Dreaming The Dream!!  :-)
From: homeroast
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Re: espresso equipment question relevant to homeroasters
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 18:04:19 -0500
James you rock!  Mazzer Mini is an incredibly smart start - you won't be di=
sappointed!
Brett
On 10/26/07, James Raven < rvnrdr> wrote:
Thank you Les for all your opinions, advice, and knowledge on this topic. I=
 TRULY do appreciate it all from all with their experienced knowledge. I ne=
ed to make a purchase soon as I'm down to basics now and am just barely get=
ting by with the stashed equipment I have been forced to accept for savings=
 purposes. But I keep ordering coffee. I am getting a Mazzer mini to start =
with, heard to much good about them to not get one. I do understand the gri=
nd does make the diffeence, as I've herd the coffee advisers all say so in =
thei own ways. Just ant the best machine for the buck and really just don't=
 want to screw with it except for standard maintenance. What part of the go=
od ole US OF A are you from Les? Northwesterner aren't ya?
thanks again,
Jim
From: les.albjerg
To: homeroast 
Subject: Re: +Re: espresso equipment question relevant to homeroasters
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 22:01:02 -0700
JIm,
As Pecan Jim says, "The espresso machine is an accessory to the grinder, no=
t the other way around."  If I had $1500.00 to spend, I would buy the Expob=
ar Office Control and a Mazzer Mini.  Once you get good then I would upgrad=
e my grinder to a MACAP Conical.  It is a much more forgiving grinder than =
my Mazzer Major.   I have an Expobar Control.  I like the electronic contro=
ls.  I like the modified E-61 grouphead.  After learning the HX dance I hav=
e very good tempature control.  I think they are one of the best values for=
 the dollar out there.
The most important thing is to learn your machine!  The machine is only a t=
ool.  Some tools are easier to use than others, but it is the barista that =
is pulling the shot, not the machine.
Les
On 10/25/07, Sandy Andina < sandraandina> wrote:
I'm not Bry but I'll try.  I own a Silvia.  She is a fine machine, but Andr=
eja can do more, especially the Premium:  fully articulating steam wand for=
 different size pitchers, e61 group for greater stability, heat exchanger s=
o you can steam and brew in quick succession or even simultaneously.  All t=
hat sexy shiny stainless steel too. But the Andreja is bigger, so you might=
 have a tight squeeze under cabinets when you fill 'er up; and that e61 gro=
up is exposed and HOT--so you can inadvertently burn yourself if you're not=
 careful (and so can curious pets or kids).
On Oct 25, 2007, at 10:50 PM, James Raven wrote
Bry -
what about the Andreja Premium, how does that stand up IYO, just curious an=
d am looking for several opinions from many a different people with a wide =
variety of experience with several types of machines. So please feel free t=
o tell me your EXACT opinion without sparring feelings or product connectio=
ns, looking for the price of around 1200 - 1500 bucks as that is my savings=
 for this buy. I'm trying to do the best on a low budget. The other half, w=
ould rather i get a Miss sylvia, I think she likes the name, ya know?
Thanks for whatever you can give me straight up.
Mucho Appreciation,
Jim
From: bwray_thatcoffeeguy 
Subject: RE: +Re: espresso equipment question relevant to homeroasters
To: homeroast
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 18:17:25 -0700
HX= Heat exchanger.  Basically it is a machine with one boiler that is us=
ed for both water for brewing the espresso and for producing steam.  A P-St=
at monitors the pressure in the boiler to adjust/keep temperature consisten=
t.   Someone correct me/add to what I said if something is wrong/missing.  =
That was a lot of "/" in one post.
I personally (opinions are going to vary widely on this) think that the bes=
t commercial double boiler machine out there is a Synesso Cyncra, with the =
La Marazoccos closely behind.  Best home machine?   If no budget, then sing=
le group Cyncra or LM GS/3 would suit you just fine :0).  More realisticall=
y, check out some of the HX machines over on www.chriscoffee.com.  He has s=
ome great machines.  I'm personally fond of the Quickmill line.
-Bry
Bryan Wray
NaDean's Coffee Place
Kalamazoo, MI
"It is my hope that people realize that coffee is more than just a caffeine=
 delivery service, it can be a culinary art"- Chris Owens.
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection aroundhttp://mail.yahoo.comHelp yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café. Stop =
by today.http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Oc=tWLtagline

28) From: Brett Mason
The grinder is the secret to best brew...  Roasting is the secret to best
beans...
You've just saved yourself from several stupid cheap purchases - and went
straight to quality - that's what ROCKS!
Check out my car - it rocks too...
Brett
 http://homeroast.freeservers.comOn 10/26/07, James Raven  wrote:
<Snip>
to
<Snip>
ay
<Snip>
st
<Snip>
er
<Snip>
ce
<Snip>
ues
<Snip>
at
<Snip>
nd
<Snip>
ger
<Snip>
l
<Snip>
ght
<Snip>
oup
<Snip>
ide
<Snip>
 to
<Snip>
ns,
<Snip>
or
<Snip>
d
<Snip>
n
<Snip>
p
<Snip>
OctWLtagline
<Snip>
mailnews
<Snip>
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

29) From: David
Jim,
Check craigslist and other classifieds, after all we
live in the center of the coffee universe.  There was
a nice La Pavoni Zip grinder recently on CL for $400
and a Sylvia/Rocky combo for $695.  I got a Rossi RR45
for $150, it is not "mini" at all, but I just got new
burrs for it and it is awesome, thing is built like a
tank.  
--- James Raven  wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast<Snip>http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>">http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocidT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline<Snip>http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast<Snip>http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
<Snip>http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast<Snip>http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>">http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews<Snip>http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast<Snip>http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
=== message truncated ===
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

30) From: raymanowen
"I have been homeroasting for a couple of years..."
You do that for the same reason you want to control all aspects of your
brewing. You control the roast, so why abdicate the control of brewing the
shot to a pushbutton?
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
On 10/23/07, Michael Jordan  wrote:
<Snip>

31) From: miKe mcKoffee
Ray, you're off base on that one. The world's top rated espresso machines'
brew temps are controlled very accurately electronically by the push of a
button. Why? Because accurate brew temperature is that important. Equally as
important as the grinder. Equally important as the quality of the green.
Equally important as the roast of the green.
 
Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
www.mcKonaKoffee.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/	From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of
raymanowen
	Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 7:48 PM
	
	"I have been homeroasting for a couple of years..."
	
	You do that for the same reason you want to control all aspects of
your brewing. You control the roast, so why abdicate the control of brewing
the shot to a pushbutton? 
	
	Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
	
	Got Grinder?

32) From: James Raven
Thanks for the knowledge on acquiring the grinder at reasonable price range=
, how bad off were your burs? 
Jim
<Snip>
OctWLtagline
<Snip>
mailnews
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettingsWindows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook – together at last.  =
Get it now.http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=CL10062=6971033=

33) From: James Raven
I've been roasting under a stove top fan for 6 years, well actually the fir=
st 2 were out in the open collecting chaff with a well placed deep metal bo=
wl and the poppcorn achine set on an angled adjustable wooden base I built.=
 So all this new info is really cool to inquire about, learn from, and then=
 make all the right purchases. Yeah, that part does ROCK and when i pull my=
 first shot from a truly good machine ground with the upscale grinder it wi=
ll be heaven and I look forward to it a lot. Thanks to everyone who has hel=
ped me to better understand some of the unrealized qualities of roasting, g=
rinding, and brewing the grounds your responsible for making perfect. I do =
have good feel for it all and have a quick learning curve and also, all goo=
d things are learned the hard way, BY EXPERIENCE, TRIAL & ERROR.
Hava Good Evening Brett, what kind of car do you own? One with a dashboard =
HXe61 head ready to brew for long road trips?
Jim
From: homeroast
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Re: espresso equipment question relevant to homeroasters
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 19:39:24 -0500
The grinder is the secret to best brew...  Roasting is the secret to best b=
eans...
You've just saved yourself from several stupid cheap purchases - and went s=
traight to quality - that's what ROCKS!
Check out my car - it rocks too...
Brett
 http://homeroast.freeservers.comOn 10/26/07, James Raven < rvnrdr> wrote:
Thanks Brett,
I'm hoping it all works out to do the brew  for two. I want to actually ope=
n a shop much like Mike has, in my dreams I know but dreams are what drive =
us, Right?
Hava Good Safe Trip Everyone Lucky Enough to Make it to Oakland.  Brett, Th=
ey ROCK!!!!!
Ordering my Mazzer Mini Tomorrow with a cup of Misty Valley.
Jim At Home Dreaming The Dream!!  :-)
From: homeroast
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Re: espresso equipment question relevant to homeroasters
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 18:04:19 -0500
James you rock!  Mazzer Mini is an incredibly smart start - you won't be di=
sappointed!
Brett
On 10/26/07, James Raven < rvnrdr> wrote:
Thank you Les for all your opinions, advice, and knowledge on this topic. I=
 TRULY do appreciate it all from all with their experienced knowledge. I ne=
ed to make a purchase soon as I'm down to basics now and am just barely get=
ting by with the stashed equipment I have been forced to accept for savings=
 purposes. But I keep ordering coffee. I am getting a Mazzer mini to start =
with, heard to much good about them to not get one. I do understand the gri=
nd does make the diffeence, as I've herd the coffee advisers all say so in =
thei own ways. Just ant the best machine for the buck and really just don't=
 want to screw with it except for standard maintenance. What part of the go=
od ole US OF A are you from Les? Northwesterner aren't ya?
thanks again,
Jim
From: les.albjerg
To: homeroast 
Subject: Re: +Re: espresso equipment question relevant to homeroasters
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 22:01:02 -0700
JIm,
As Pecan Jim says, "The espresso machine is an accessory to the grinder, no=
t the other way around."  If I had $1500.00 to spend, I would buy the Expob=
ar Office Control and a Mazzer Mini.  Once you get good then I would upgrad=
e my grinder to a MACAP Conical.  It is a much more forgiving grinder than =
my Mazzer Major.   I have an Expobar Control.  I like the electronic contro=
ls.  I like the modified E-61 grouphead.  After learning the HX dance I hav=
e very good tempature control.  I think they are one of the best values for=
 the dollar out there.
The most important thing is to learn your machine!  The machine is only a t=
ool.  Some tools are easier to use than others, but it is the barista that =
is pulling the shot, not the machine.
Les
On 10/25/07, Sandy Andina < sandraandina> wrote:
I'm not Bry but I'll try.  I own a Silvia.  She is a fine machine, but Andr=
eja can do more, especially the Premium:  fully articulating steam wand for=
 different size pitchers, e61 group for greater stability, heat exchanger s=
o you can steam and brew in quick succession or even simultaneously.  All t=
hat sexy shiny stainless steel too. But the Andreja is bigger, so you might=
 have a tight squeeze under cabinets when you fill 'er up; and that e61 gro=
up is exposed and HOT--so you can inadvertently burn yourself if you're not=
 careful (and so can curious pets or kids).
On Oct 25, 2007, at 10:50 PM, James Raven wrote
Bry -
what about the Andreja Premium, how does that stand up IYO, just curious an=
d am looking for several opinions from many a different people with a wide =
variety of experience with several types of machines. So please feel free t=
o tell me your EXACT opinion without sparring feelings or product connectio=
ns, looking for the price of around 1200 - 1500 bucks as that is my savings=
 for this buy. I'm trying to do the best on a low budget. The other half, w=
ould rather i get a Miss sylvia, I think she likes the name, ya know?
Thanks for whatever you can give me straight up.
Mucho Appreciation,
Jim
From: bwray_thatcoffeeguy 
Subject: RE: +Re: espresso equipment question relevant to homeroasters
To: homeroast
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 18:17:25 -0700
HX= Heat exchanger.  Basically it is a machine with one boiler that is us=
ed for both water for brewing the espresso and for producing steam.  A P-St=
at monitors the pressure in the boiler to adjust/keep temperature consisten=
t.   Someone correct me/add to what I said if something is wrong/missing.  =
That was a lot of "/" in one post.
I personally (opinions are going to vary widely on this) think that the bes=
t commercial double boiler machine out there is a Synesso Cyncra, with the =
La Marazoccos closely behind.  Best home machine?   If no budget, then sing=
le group Cyncra or LM GS/3 would suit you just fine :0).  More realisticall=
y, check out some of the HX machines over on www.chriscoffee.com.  He has s=
ome great machines.  I'm personally fond of the Quickmill line.
-Bry
Bryan Wray
NaDean's Coffee Place
Kalamazoo, MI
"It is my hope that people realize that coffee is more than just a caffeine=
 delivery service, it can be a culinary art"- Chris Owens.
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection aroundhttp://mail.yahoo.comHelp yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café. Stop =
by today.http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Oc=tWLtagline

34) From: David
They were not that bad, not a real consistent grind, I
got by with them until I got the new ones today, the
burrs were only $26.  
Cheers,
David
--- James Raven  wrote:
<Snip>
=== message truncated ===
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

35) From: MichaelB
The push button turns the pump on or off, it doesn't control pressure. It's
all or nothing. Now a manual lever espresso machine gives the experienced
user control over shot pressure - something no push button machine is
capable of doing. So the ability of levers to produce world class shots
without controlling those aspects of shot production so important to push
button machines shows that there are alternatives to careful control of
variables. IMO it shows just the opposite of what you might expect - the
more you remove the experienced user manual control, the more you need
precisely engineered control to compensate.
On 10/26/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
--
MichaelB

36) From: James Raven
"That Sounds Logical"
              cartoon lion
From: espressoperson
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Re: espresso equipment question relevant to homeroasters
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:30:14 -0400
The push button turns the pump on or off, it doesn't control pressure. It's=
 all or nothing. Now a manual lever espresso machine gives the experienced =
user control over shot pressure - something no push button machine is capab=
le of doing. So the ability of levers to produce world class shots without =
controlling those aspects of shot production so important to push button ma=
chines shows that there are alternatives to careful control of variables. I=
MO it shows just the opposite of what you might expect - the more you remov=
e the experienced user manual control, the more you need precisely engineer=
ed control to compensate.
On 10/26/07, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
Ray, you're off base on that one. The world's top rated espresso machines'
brew temps are controlled very accurately electronically by the push of a
button. Why? Because accurate brew temperature is that important. Equally a=
s
important as the grinder. Equally important as the quality of the green.
Equally important as the roast of the green.
Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
www.mcKonaKoffee.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before=
.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/From: homeroast-admin
[mailto: homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of
raymanowen
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 7:48 PM
"I have been homeroasting for a couple of years..."
You do that for the same reason you want to control all aspects of
your brewing. You control the roast, so why abdicate the control of brewing
the shot to a pushbutton?
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?

37) From: Robert Joslin
Jim
  The upper gauge on the Andreja displays boiler pressure, lower displays
brew pressure.  No temp display on unit.   Josh.
On 10/23/07, James Raven  wrote:
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38) From: Ross
James,
Also not Bry, but have Silvia and have decided she's a keeper.  Because I 
have figured out/learned from others how to work around the limitations well 
enough to get good results.   If your just doing espresso for home Silvia is 
a great lower cost compromise.  Brew temp is the biggest issue I have 
noticed, you must decide if having to temp surf and not get exactly what you 
want every time is worth the cost difference of moving up to the next level. 
As has been mentioned, espresso brew temp is VERY important.  If you are 
thinking PID,  you are at the cost where you might as well just move up to 
the next level.  For milk drinks, letting the espresso shots sit in the 
prewarmed cups while waiting for the boiler to come up to steam temp is not 
really a show stopper, but that is the other disadvantage vs a HX machine or 
double boiler machine.  If I was starting over I would move up but I'm not 
going to trade up for a long time, Silvia is good enough once you get used 
to her.
Ross


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