HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Freshness & storage - the resting question (22 msgs / 571 lines)
1) From: Sean Sweet
Forgive the nativity of my question (I've been a hot air popper roaster a
year and an iRoast 2 owner a couple days).
I understand roasted beans need to vent CO2 ("rest") for at least 12 hours
(better is perhaps up to 2 days), but my question is do you leave in open
air for the first 12 hours (or other interval) then transfer to an airtight
container, or do you go directly to airtight conditions once cooled to room
temp?
Many thanks,
Sean

2) From: Brian Kamnetz
Sean,
This has been a topic of much discussion. I will try to summarize.
There doesn't seem to be much agreement. Some people say that they
should be covered but not sealed (so CO2 can vent with just a bit of
pressure), others say that if you use the beans within 10 days or so
you can simply leave them in an open bowl for that length of time.
Brian
On 10/24/07, Sean Sweet  wrote:
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3) From: Larry Johnson
I put mine in a 1-quart, wide-mouth glass mason jar and only screw the
lid on enough so that it stays on. IOW, just started engaging the
threads of the lid and the jar. After a couple of days, I screw it
down tight.
On 10/24/07, Sean Sweet  wrote:
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-- 
Larry J

4) From: Sean Cary
I keep mine in vacuum jars after the first 24 hours - then when I am
done making coffee in the morning, I vacuum out the cannister...
Honestly since I have been deployed this year, I have been keeping
mine in the foil vacuum bags, and really have not noticed an great
decrease in freshness over using the pound.  The Vac bags are somewhat
of a PIA when you get to the bottom, hard to get the beans out w/o
making a mess.
I would say how you store depends on how long it takes to consume what
you roasted.
Sean
In Fallujah
Flying in an Osprey tonight...exited and scared all at one big Marine package.
On 10/24/07, Sean Sweet  wrote:
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5) From: Brett Mason
Let me start by saying the I disagree with Mike...
I cool the beans, and then place in a large Mason Jar, with the glass lid,
seal and latch.  I latch it shut.
Each morning, or next pot, I open the lid, enjoy the hiss, and then spoon
out enough beans into my commercial Cory grinder to make a pot.  I try to
not disturb the C02 that covers the beans, because O2 is not my friend...
I noticed that the 3lb load of Colombia Excelso from last week was still
hissing this morning - a full 7 days since I roasted!
Cheers, Hiss!
Brett
On 10/24/07, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

6) From: True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)
Whoo, now there is a ride! I hope all goes well stay safe Sir!

7) From: Rick Copple
Sean Sweet wrote:
<Snip>
I think it says somewhere on Tom's site that one should let it rest a 
minimum of four hours. That allows time for the majority of the gas to 
escape, and gets the twang out of the beans, for the most part. Rest 
times given for specific beans usually are more to say when someone 
things the beans taste the best or have their peak flavors develop, that 
they like anyway. Others will go ahead and brew right after the roast. 
You know it will have that twang to it, but if you're desperate, you go 
for it! Plus, sometimes you find some interesting flavors at that spot 
that disappear after a few hours.
I don't do anything special myself. I use the foil bags from SM with the 
one way degassing valve. But I use my beans up within a week to a week 
and a half. I find that most convenient and the beans always taste good. 
I don't worry about disturbing the co2 either, just dump them out into 
my Zass, grind and brew. Reseal the bag and it goes back on the shelf. 
Don't have to remember to tighten lids or anything.
It seems each person has their storage method, and the work they are 
willing to go to for perceived benefit. So you just have to figure out 
what works for you. :)
-- 
Rick Copple

8) From: Lynne
Never being one who can follow rules, I usually make a cup right after
I roast - and
can never plan ahead well enough to let it rest (I'll roast the day
before - or the very day -
I need coffee.)
Now, my son (who is quickly becoming a homeroast connoseiur) told me
that he likes the coffee right after I roast. I'm sure it depends on
the type (being Ms. Scattered Brain, I still haven't taken notes...)
Recently I've been making French Press pots, although I also have a
couple of Mokapots and a KMB... (don't do espresso - might be
different if I did)
Lynne
On 10/24/07, Rick Copple  wrote:
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9) From: Jeff Bensen
Sean -
My response is similar to the others, with a few minor differences.
I let the beans sit out in a bowl for about an hour after roasting. I 
found that sealing them before they are fully at room temp can 
sometimes produce a difference in flavor that I did not like. I use 
an iRoast, so the beans are still a little warm after the 'cooling' cycle.
In my 3+ years of roasting I've tried many complicated storage 
schemes, but finally settled on something simple that works well. I 
am the only coffee drinker in the house, so I don't go through the 
beans as quickly as some other people do.
To that end I've been using half-pint mason jars, filling each one as 
much as possible to minimize air space. I leave the bands loose for 
about a day, then tighten them. It takes me about two days to use up 
a jar. Four iRoast batches (my normal roast amount) will completely 
fill six half-pint mason jars, which is not unmanageable IMO. When 
I'm opening the final jar of a given roast (around day 10), I'm 
greeted with a gentle whoosh from the escaping CO2 and the beans 
still taste great.
- Jeff Bensen
   Palm Bay, FL
At 01:33 PM 10/24/2007, Sean Sweet  wrote:
<Snip>

10) From: Sean Sweet
Thanks all for the replies and advice.  One thing I wanted to seek
clarification on is if 'rest' = in the open air.
What I've seen is one suggestion to go directly into an airtight container
after cooling and another to rest for 4 hours - I assume the latter means to
keep in open air for 4 hours, then switch to a storage container.
With a popcorn popper over the past 12 months, I've been keeping the beans
out to breathe for 12 hours, then transferring to an airtight coffee
canister I picked up in Japan.  I'll try shortening the open air phase.  Of
course, with both popcorn popper and the iRoast 2, my roasted volumes are
only 3 to 5 days' worth anyway, but I did want to ask how long to leave
newly roasted beans out in the open.
Thanks again,
Sean

11) From: raymanowen
I have no time delay between End Of Roast and cold beans. First, I measure
out 24g into a sandwich ZipLoc baggie and exclude the air- just press it
flat. Then into the freezer for a few minutes while I seal the rest of the
beans in a Mason(R) fruit jar, and label it.
I put the beans on top of the ice cube maker, and if the cabinet fan is
running, it blows right down on the ice maker. With the beans lying there,
they're flash frozen in a short time. I just grind and brew a Steinway test
mug. With the hard surface, the beans tend to fracture more easily. Must be
the SM's beans offset my roasting errors. Actually, I suspect the grinder
makes a Major difference-
Resting refers to the passage of time since roasting. Fresh roasted beans
emit CO2 on the decomposition of  organic acid. The
roasted beans are a hydrocarbon Disneyland, the likes of a Tijuana Cat House
to O2 molecules. Good that the O2 is displaced by the more dense CO2 that's
evolving.
Don't age them on an open cookie sheet where the CO2 can't displace all the
fresh O2 in air that diffuses the beans. A closed sealed jar is fine, just
don't open the jar and pour the beans out. You'll be pouring out all the
CO2, to be replaced by your friend, O2.
The Brazil Fazenda Ipamena begged for an espresso brew when I mugged it.
Last night, at seven days post roast, I rolled a strike with the Capresso
Luxe thingy.What a phenomenal 15 sec shot. BUFF set to 20. 30# tamp,
probably. Part of my coffee bar will be a Sharper Image glass platen scale
so I always know my tamp pressure.
I hit the Go! button until I heard the pressure build up and let it pump for
another second or so. After a 5sec pause, I let her rip for another 15sec,
during which time heavy crema was pouring out of both spouts. That's
abnormal for me and the Compresso thingy, and I got agreement from my Celtic
Critic honey.
My Celtic Critic universally despises coffee, especially at night, but
termed it "Pure Nectar, Ray!"  Who am I to argue? I have too many wires
crossed to be very descriptive, but what flavor. All's good near Denver
town. Can I repeat it tonight and in the morning?
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
On 10/24/07, Sean Sweet  wrote:
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12) From: Rick Copple
Sean Sweet wrote:
<Snip>
Nope. I guess some do that. However, most people consider O2 the enemy. 
Since I throw them into the valve bags, the CO2 that comes out pushes 
the O2 out the valve. So it is beneficial for me to get them in the bag 
right after roasting. They'll sit out for as long as it takes me to 
clean the bag, put masking tape on it to label what I'm putting in there 
and the date of roast, and then pop the beans in.
<Snip>
I think most allow some way for the gas to escape. If in a jar, they 
leave the lid not tight and then tighten it down after a day or so. 
That's mostly to allow the CO2 to push the O2 out. But I got tired of 
trying to remember to do that, so I just went with the bags, easier. Put 
it in and don't worry about it. All depends on preference and how fast 
you use them. Since I roast two pounds at a time, I find my method 
helpful. While my son drinks a cup every now and then, I usually use 
them up in just over a week by making a pot a day.
-- 
Rick Copplehttp://www.rlcopple.com/

13) From: James Raven
There is a beer sold on the open market and I think it's called Groltch? I =
might be off on th spelling but only a letter or two backwards. Anyway, the=
y come in those real nice bottles (large for standard 12 - 14 oz bottles, a=
nd they have a wonderful rubber top that has the wire setup for resealing l=
ike other old bottles and they work great for holding coffee beans, Plus yo=
u get to enjoy a top notch beer first!!!!  Thought tossed into the pile.
Jim
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettingsHelp yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café. Stop =
by today.http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Oc=tWLtagline=

14) From: Rich
The Europeans call those 1/2L snap cap bottles.  they =
are available in several sizes.
On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 07:58:58 -0700, James Raven wrote:
<Snip>
 it's called Groltch? I might be off on th spelling =
but only a letter or two backwards. Anyway, they come =
in those real nice bottles (large for standard 12 
- 14 oz bottles, and they have a wonderful rubber top =
that has the wire setup for resealing like other 
old bottles and they work great for holding coffee beans=
, Plus you get to enjoy a top notch beer first!!!!  =
Thought tossed into the pile.
<Snip>
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ion
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ot air popper roaster
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 for at least 12
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uestion is do you leave
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erval) then transfer to
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rtight conditions once
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should let it rest a
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ority of the gas to
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the most part. Rest
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say when someone
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flavors develop, that
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ht after the roast.
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you're desperate, you go
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vors at that spot
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bags from SM with the
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thin a week to a week
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eans always taste good.
<Snip>
dump them out into
<Snip>
es back on the shelf.
<Snip>
the work they are
<Snip>
 have to figure out
<Snip>
vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
essenger Café. Stop by today.
<Snip>
ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline=
__
<Snip>
cations, unsvbscribes) go to http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings

15) From: Larry Williams
I've been saving 4 Grolsch bottles (checked the spelling on the bottle) 
to give to my nieces husband who makes home brew, but heck, using them 
for coffee would be cool.
Larry
James Raven wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.10/1091 - Release Date: 10/24/2007 2:31 PM

16) From: Michael I
It's Grolsch to which you're referring. It's made in the Netherlands, and
comes in a swing top bottle (as do many other beers).  I wouldn't exactly
call it a top notch beer, but it's an OK European lager.  The bottles are
often used by homebrewers, since they're easier to cap than "regular"
bottles.  
I guess you'd need a funnel to get the beans in there.  However, you'd have
to invert the bottle to get the beans out, thereby allowing O2 in, which is
just what you don't want.
-AdkMike

17) From: Sean Cary
What a ride - it is an amazing aircraft!  I had the last seat on the
starboard side, right on the ramp, which the door gunner had open.
The plane has some getup!  Flew from Fallujah to a few different
points and then to Ramadi, and it was FAST!
Hoping I get to move back to Fallujah in the same manner, beats a
CH-46 or 47 hands down!
All of us got off the '22 and were like a bunch of kids - it was funny.
Sean
In Ramadi - what a nasty place!
On 10/24/07, True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)  wrote:
<Snip>

18) From: True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)
Yes but did you take a cup of joe with ya on the trip?
Dennis

19) From: Larry Johnson
There ya go, Dennis. Keep him focused. ;-)
On 10/26/07, True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Larry J

20) From: Sean Cary
negative, travel in Iraq is a bit to arduous for that...  I travel as
light as possible, an overnight backpack - with enough t-shits, socks
etc for the duration plus one day and a sleeping bag strapped to that.
 Stuff in my cammies since I am allowed to fly in (and GREATLY prefer)
a flight suit and away I go.
I live on Rip It when I travel, like Red Bull but MUCH better tasting
- keeps my heart moving along with generous quantities of Diet Coke...
Amazing place - Ramadi is like 30 miles from here - and you have to
fly, or take a convoy.  Safety and security are things NOT to be taken
lightly, and back in CONUS we are thankfully blissfully unaware what
true danger is.  These kids who run convoys every night are STUDS,
unabashed freaking, hardcore warriors...even the Sea Bees :-).  These
kids are  in their early 20's staring danger down every night, that
takes huge cajones.
Sean
Back in Fallujah and in awe of a great generation of kids in the military.
On 10/26/07, Larry Johnson  wrote:
<Snip>

21) From: Brett Mason
Amen to these heroes!
Brett
On 10/27/07, Sean Cary  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

22) From: James Raven
I'm glad they weren't FORCED TO GO but pity them for being there for no rea=
l good reason yet again, Politics gets the innocent killed. Pity but ADMIRE=
 THEM!!!!!  I Neeeded to clear up my opinion. 
no more politics. Sorry.
Jim
From: homeroast
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Freshness & storage - the resting question
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 07:30:45 -0500
Amen to these heroes!
Brett
On 10/27/07, Sean Cary  wrote:
negative, travel in Iraq is a bit to arduous for that...  I travel as
light as possible, an overnight backpack - with enough t-shits, socks
etc for the duration plus one day and a sleeping bag strapped to that.
Stuff in my cammies since I am allowed to fly in (and GREATLY prefer)
a flight suit and away I go.
I live on Rip It when I travel, like Red Bull but MUCH better tasting
- keeps my heart moving along with generous quantities of Diet Coke...
Amazing place - Ramadi is like 30 miles from here - and you have to
fly, or take a convoy.  Safety and security are things NOT to be taken
lightly, and back in CONUS we are thankfully blissfully unaware what
true danger is.  These kids who run convoys every night are STUDS,
unabashed freaking, hardcore warriors...even the Sea Bees :-).  These
kids are  in their early 20's staring danger down every night, that
takes huge cajones.
Sean
Back in Fallujah and in awe of a great generation of kids in the military.
On 10/26/07, Larry Johnson < lilboybrew> wrote:
<Snip>
cribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>


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