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Topic: Behmor, RoHS Concerns (13 msgs / 469 lines)
1) From: True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
First Randy, Welcome back!
 
now everyone please excuse my ingorance but what is RoHS?
Dennis

2) From: Sean Cary
Use of toxic metals to preclude their entry into landfills - can tend
to shorten the lifespan of an end item...
And sailors call Marines dumb...
Sean
I googled it...
On 10/30/07, True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)  wrote:
<Snip>

3) From: True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)
I never called Marines Dumb, just very easily amused...(Ooooo, pretty
shiny thing, can I shoot it?)
And thanks for the info great research (for a Marine)
Dennis

4) From: Alchemist John
Voicing a concern is great, but I have to say I would have waited 
until hearing back from Joe before stirring the pot.  There are 
numerous exceptions written into the RoHS regulations that allow for 
waivers.  Maybe Joe has one.  Maybe the circuity is not fine enough 
to have whiskering be a concern.
At 11:24 10/28/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

5) From: Alchemist John
Hey folks,  I touched base with Joe this morning and here in his 
response.  Mostly, IMO, it doesn't sound like it is a big 
issue.  Lifetime has been taken into account, and it appears the 
other electronic based roasters on the market have the same "issue".
<Snip>
At 05:58 10/30/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

6) From: W. Simon
Expect EVERY electronic device to follow this standard.  If a company wants
to sell in Europe, they have to do it.  It's simply life in this day and
age.  I doubt that you can find many electronic products these days that
aren't RoHS compliant.
On 10/30/07, Alchemist John  wrote:
<Snip>

7) From: Jason
I'll stir the pot just slightly.  Simon, there are TONS of systems out
there, that are not RoHS compliant.  To get certified, it is not really a
fast process either, even if you should be exempt.  Then you must comply
with shipping standards, then you must have your customs paperwork.... there
are several hurdles here.
I make no claims to anything related to the Behmor or where they are, might
be, or will be in this process.
On 10/30/07, Alchemist John  wrote:
<Snip>

8) From: Sean Cary
trust me - it doesn't have to be shiny for a Marine to shoot it!
Gotta get my Navy shots in whenever possible.
Sean
almost, ALMOST a double digit midget...
On 10/30/07, True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)  wrote:
<Snip>

9) From: John Brown
1978 USS Monticello LSD 35, i was standing on the starboard wing wall 
watching the Marines play with their amphibs.  a Marine LTC was standing 
close by observing also.
he yelled down to the well deck trying to get the attention of the 
driver of one.  there was so much noise there was no way the grunt could 
have heard. the LTC climbs down the rung ladder on the side of the wing 
wall grabs a large piece of wood laying on the deck he then make a 
running jump and whacks the marine driver up side of his helmet, this 
gets his attention.  the LTC then climbs back up the wing wall and 
returns to  watching.  me a PO1 tells the LTC i had always heard that 
was the best way to get a Marines attention but had never believed until 
his demonstration.  it made a good tale in the first class mess latter, 
even the staff sargents laughed.
i will take a Marine to stand beside me any day.
Sean Cary wrote:
<Snip>

10) From: Jason
For more info on RoHS:http://www.rohs.gov.uk/

11) From: raymanowen
"...I was very interested to hear about your product, and fully intended to
buy one from Sweet Maria's when it came available [until] I learned it was
RoHS compliant.  What a disappointment.  I wonder if you know that this will
likely reduce the useful life of your products due to tin whiskering and
brittleness?  It saddens me to see this folly..."
Note that the American Land Barges have been on an RoHS-compliant diet (Lead
free gas) since the early 70's. The exclusion of Pb from the fuel has
reduced the formation of stalactites and stalagmites in the combustion
chambers and piston tops, but my driving habits never precipitated the
deposits, anyway.
Lucent was not RoHS- compliant in their local (Westminster, CO.)
manufacturing. They had a cavalcade of other ways to induce failures from
manufacturing one-down-manship processes.
The tin whiskers associated with RoHS compliance seems to have been
mitigated in computers, copiers and even the lowly remote control, where SMT
pin spacing is commonly 0.025in. BGA chips may have more or less space.
I just hate to think of the pain I'll have to cause if some booby decides my
mercury amalgam tooth fillings were not RoHS-compliant. Maybe they weren't,
but the mercury is no longer in the free state. Think "Alloy" like any
steel.
One could be concerned with the explosive Hydrogen in water or the poisonous
Sodium and Chlorine in table salt.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Sweat not, lest ye be known as a sweater...
On 10/28/07, astro < astro> wrote:
<Snip>

12) From: Mejia, Carlos
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I work in a large high tech company that has been driving toward 100%
RoHS compliance for the last 2 years.  My 'specialty' is the printed
circuit board and I've worked in this industry for about 30 yrs now.
Most of the changes to comply with RoHS have been to change from a
primarily solder coated board to either immersion silver or immersion
tin. There is also a large amount of boards that use an organic coating
over the copper circuitry instead of plating them.  It seems that for
some reason, most of the US companies have chosen immersion silver while
EU customers are using immersion tin.  I don't know what type of board
the Behmor has in it.  
 
The immersion tin chemistries are not nearly as susceptible to
'whiskers' as they used to be because alloys have been developed which
resist the whisker growth.  Also, the environment (high humidity) plays
a large part in the formation of tin whiskers.   Bottom line, I think
it's extremely over reactive to say you were going to buy the Behmor
until you heard it was RoHS!  
 
I've cursed RoHS a lot over the last two years, but at the same time I
feel it's a necessary move to stop the poisoning of our planet.
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of
raymanowen
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 3:00 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Behmor, RoHS Concerns
 
"...I was very interested to hear about your product, and fully intended
to buy one from Sweet Maria's when it came available [until] I learned
it was RoHS compliant.  What a disappointment.  I wonder if you know
that this will likely reduce the useful life of your products due to tin
whiskering and brittleness?  It saddens me to see this folly..."
Note that the American Land Barges have been on an RoHS-compliant diet
(Lead free gas) since the early 70's. The exclusion of Pb from the fuel
has reduced the formation of stalactites and stalagmites in the
combustion chambers and piston tops, but my driving habits never
precipitated the deposits, anyway. 
Lucent was not RoHS- compliant in their local (Westminster, CO.)
manufacturing. They had a cavalcade of other ways to induce failures
from manufacturing one-down-manship processes.
The tin whiskers associated with RoHS compliance seems to have been
mitigated in computers, copiers and even the lowly remote control, where
SMT pin spacing is commonly 0.025in. BGA chips may have more or less
space.
I just hate to think of the pain I'll have to cause if some booby
decides my mercury amalgam tooth fillings were not RoHS-compliant. Maybe
they weren't, but the mercury is no longer in the free state. Think
"Alloy" like any steel. 
One could be concerned with the explosive Hydrogen in water or the
poisonous Sodium and Chlorine in table salt.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Sweat not, lest ye be known as a sweater... 
On 10/28/07, astro < astro
 > wrote:
Hey All,
Life got busy with things other than coffee, so I have just been in lurk
mode for the past year or so.  Hi to all who remember me from my past
life.
What brought me out of lurk was the Behmor, I was truly intrigued by it
until I discovered it was RoHS compliant.  Rather than re-invent the
wheel I will post below the contents of my email to Behmor on the
subject, but I think this is a factor to consider in making a purchase
decision.  
Here is my email to Behmor:
"As a home roaster of coffee, I was very interested to hear about your
product, and fully intended to buy one from Sweet Maria's when it came
available.  
Then I learned it was RoHS compliant.  What a disappointment.  I wonder
if you know that this will likely reduce the useful life of your
products due to tin whiskering and brittleness?  It saddens me to see
this folly.  In an effort to r educe a metal's (lead) presence in
landfill in a form which isn't really all that problematic, we are
condemning millions of items to an early death, greatly increasing the
volume of all materials being introduced to landfills, some of which
will likely be more deleterious than lead based solder would ever be.  
Please re-think this position, and offer a non-RoHS compliant model for
those who believe that the best way to protect the environment is to
build equipment which will last a lifetime, or in some cases,
generations.  I have many items in my household which are used on a
regular basis, and which are 75 or more years old.  
That may be unrealistic for a modern coffee roaster, but I would like to
do better than the 3 or 4 years I expect your machines to last if they
are to be RoHS compliant.  Not everything politicians and activists
advocate for the environment is truly what is best for the environment.
Congratulations on what is otherwise a very promising product."
Still living off my coffee stash,
Randy

13) From: Robert Yoder
Thanks for your thoughtful and informed post, Carlos!
 
robert
Subject: RE: +Behmor, RoHS ConcernsFrom: carlos.mejia: homeroas=
t: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 18:32:20 -0700
I work in a large high tech company that has been driving toward 100% RoHS =
compliance for the last 2 years.  My ‘specialty’ is the printed circuit=
 board and I’ve worked in this industry for about 30 yrs now.  Most of th=
e changes to comply with RoHS have been to change from a primarily solder c=
oated board to either immersion silver or immersion tin. There is also a la=
rge amount of boards that use an organic coating over the copper circuitry =
instead of plating them.  It seems that for some reason, most of the US com=
panies have chosen immersion silver while EU customers are using immersion =
tin.  I don’t know what type of board the Behmor has in it.  
 
The immersion tin chemistries are not nearly as susceptible to ‘whiskers=
’ as they used to be because alloys have been developed which resist the =
whisker growth.  Also, the environment (high humidity) plays a large part i=
n the formation of tin whiskers.   Bottom line, I think it’s extremely ov=
er reactive to say you were going to buy the Behmor until you heard it was =
RoHS!  
 
I’ve cursed RoHS a lot over the last two years, but at the same time I fe=
el it’s a necessary move to stop the poisoning of our planet.
 
 
 
From: homeroast-admin [mailto:homeroast-admin=
weetmarias.com] On Behalf Of raymanowen: Tuesday, October 30,=
 2007 3:00 PMTo: homeroast: Re: +Behmor, RoHS =
Concerns
 
"...I was very interested to hear about your product, and fully intended to=
 buy one from Sweet Maria's when it came available [until] I learned it was=
 RoHS compliant.  What a disappointment.  I wonder if you know that this wi=
ll likely reduce the useful life of your products due to tin whiskering and=
 brittleness?  It saddens me to see this folly..."Note that the American La=
nd Barges have been on an RoHS-compliant diet (Lead free gas) since the ear=
ly 70's. The exclusion of Pb from the fuel has reduced the formation of sta=
lactites and stalagmites in the combustion chambers and piston tops, but my=
 driving habits never precipitated the deposits, anyway. Lucent was not RoH=
S- compliant in their local (Westminster, CO.) manufacturing. They had a ca=
valcade of other ways to induce failures from manufacturing one-down-manshi=
p processes.The tin whiskers associated with RoHS compliance seems to have =
been mitigated in computers, copiers and even the lowly remote control, whe=
re SMT pin spacing is commonly 0.025in. BGA chips may have more or less spa=
ce.I just hate to think of the pain I'll have to cause if some booby decide=
s my mercury amalgam tooth fillings were not RoHS-compliant. Maybe they wer=
en't, but the mercury is no longer in the free state. Think "Alloy" like an=
y steel. One could be concerned with the explosive Hydrogen in water or the=
 poisonous Sodium and Chlorine in table salt.Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa=
!Sweat not, lest ye be known as a sweater... 
On 10/28/07, astro < astro> wrote:
Hey All,Life got busy with things other than coffee, s=
o I have just been in lurk mode for the past year or so.  Hi to all who rem=
ember me from my past life.What brought me out of lurk was the Behmor, I wa=
s truly intrigued by it until I discovered it was RoHS compliant.  Rather t=
han re-invent the wheel I will post below the contents of my email to Behmo=
r on the subject, but I think this is a factor to consider in making a purc=
hase decision.  Here is my email to Behmor:"As a home roaster of coffee, I =
was very interested to hear about your product, and fully intended to buy o=
ne from Sweet Maria's when it came available.  Then I learned it was RoHS c=
ompliant.  What a disappointment.  I wonder if you know that this will like=
ly reduce the useful life of your products due to tin whiskering and brittl=
eness?  It saddens me to see this folly.  In an effort to r educe a metal's=
 (lead) presence in landfill in a form which isn't really all that problema=
tic, we are condemning millions of items to an early death, greatly increas=
ing the volume of all materials being introduced to landfills, some of whic=
h will likely be more deleterious than lead based solder would ever be.  Pl=
ease re-think this position, and offer a non-RoHS compliant model for those=
 who believe that the best way to protect the environment is to build equip=
ment which will last a lifetime, or in some cases, generations.  I have man=
y items in my household which are used on a regular basis, and which are 75=
 or more years old.  That may be unrealistic for a modern coffee roaster, b=
ut I would like to do better than the 3 or 4 years I expect your machines t=
o last if they are to be RoHS compliant.  Not everything politicians and ac=
tivists advocate for the environment is truly what is best for the environm=
ent.  Congratulations on what is otherwise a very promising product."Still =
living off my coffee stash,Randy homeroast mailing list http=
://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast To change your personal=
 list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go tohttp://sweet=marias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings
Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook – together at last.  =
Get it now.http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=CL10062=6971033=


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