HomeRoast Digest


Topic: behmor roaster arrival date - design oversights? (21 msgs / 644 lines)
1) From: JD Foster
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I don't think it's quite correct to consider the drum mesh a "design 
oversight", but rather a design decision that was made to accommodate 
*most* roasting situations.  The alternative drum is a recognition that 
there are some situations for which default drum is not ideal.  Each 
consumer has the option of adding the alternative drum should they deem 
it necessary for their situation, while not forcing every consumer to 
pay for it when it may be unnecessary for their operations.  If you want 
the price to be much higher, I'm sure Joe could include all kinds of 
alternative parts for folks who *might* want them.  But that wasn't the 
goal.
JD, another early adopter 
James Raven wrote:
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2) From: True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I have actually seen the Behmor in action and I even got to take the
roast with me and I was Impressed!  I look forward to getting one, first
run or not this roaster has really been put through the paces.  Since it
is a "small" venture I feel that the Behmor has gotten a lot of extra
scrutiny, over something that the "big boys" produce and I am willing to
get a first run of this roaster...  (and I know Joe so I guess that
might weigh a bit in my decision, but that isn't why I want one) I
firmly believe in this, I understand the level of commitment that Joe
has, and this roaster is solid both inside and out.  
The whole small drum big drum, I understand that Joe made the drum to
perform in the majority of roasting scenarios and then to completely
cover the rest, he designed a second drum.  There is nothing, I repeat
NOTHING, wrong with the drum that comes with it and I think everyone
will be happy with it.  The second drum is an add-on that will cover a
small percentage of the coffee and getting it in the future suits me
just fine.  Joe has stated his goal is to one day create a $199.00 Drum
roaster, as he feels that the $200.00 price point will open the market
for home roasting wide open and I have to say that I agree with him on
that.  With the Hottop and Gencafe prices where they are and the RK drum
is a bit more complex and a full set-up still being pricy for beginners.
The Behmor will fill a void that will allow more people into this
passion for a reasonable price and that is our goal to grow and spread
the "gospel" of homeroasting.  I feel that Joe has done the entire
industry a great service with the Behmor and I fully expect a paradigm
shift in the future of homeroasting where we will see more people and of
a greater diversity gain interest in homeroasting.  If we take that
approach then Tom will be able to have better leverage when bidding if
he has a larger customer base this will give all of us more choices and
larger quantities of the beans we all love. 
 
Just IMHO and as always YMMV!
 
Dennis

3) From: Bob Brashear
Looks like I'll have a chance to test one out as my Hottop just died. 
Got a call in to Hottop USA.
Sigh.
Bob

4) From: James Raven
Good luck Bob, hope it does what you need it to. Joe Behm did work on it fo=
r years perfecting it the best he could, some say very minor oversights, ju=
st opinions by people who have had the experience of using it. Lots of avai=
lable beans are fairly small, plus all the peaberry's
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5) From: Bob Brashear
I've been doing software and hardware for about 40 years. I was probably 
around when the "Don't upgrade to a .0" was first coined. In hardware 
and software that would be applicable. Software and hardware companies 
are driven by marketers. They will fix the glitches in a service pack 
release.
Joe doesn't seem to be driven in that manner. From all the reviews I've 
seen (from people on this list that I trust), he has gone through 
several years of design and engineering that has produced a usable 
appliance for home coffee roasters. I will be ordering one.
How many software packages can you truthfully say are useful or even do 
what they are advertised to do out of the box? If the software industry 
actually took Joe's route, we would be light years ahead in software 
development instead of using high powered boxes as glorified typewriters.
Bob

6) From: James Raven
You're right Bob, please enjoy your new Behmor. all the luck in the world.
PEACE - Jim
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7) From: Rick Copple
JD Foster wrote:
<Snip>
First, I think this sounds like a good roaster, and I'm hoping Christmas 
money will come in to fund the purchase. When your struggling to make 
the mortgage payment, $300 is a lot of money. But, we'll see.
And, I certainly understand that he had to make a decision, and trade 
off this benefit for that restriction, etc.
However, I sort of understand what James is feeling/thinking here. I 
guess for two reasons. One, when it was first mentioned, I think by Tom, 
though maybe he didn't intend it to, it did sound like a design flaw. 
And I think at least in part it came across that way because I've never 
heard of the other drum roasters have this problem, except save one I 
think I recall Tom mentioning on a review that smaller beans tended to 
get stuck in it, a similar type wire mesh drum. But aside from that one 
review, I've not heard of other drum roasters having this issue.
But, it makes me wonder, I've never heard for the need in a Hottop, for 
an example, to have two drums and switch them out. Or any other drum 
roaster to my recollection (doesn't mean they aren't out there, I've 
just not heard about it). What are different about those drums that this 
isn't an issue, and what limitations does those designs have that the 
Behmor won't because it has what it has? I'm asking cause I have no 
idea, not having seen any of them or touched them.
But, I think for me, if it is available when I order it, whenever that 
might be, I'll try and get the other drum with it. Just doesn't make 
sense to me to get a roaster and then know that I can only order these 
types of coffees, but you can't get these over here because they are too 
small. Like, I have five pounds of Batak in my cabinet, will I be able 
to roast those peaberries in it? I don't want to be that limited and I 
can't imagine any other serious home roaster would want to be either. 
There's too many great small beans out there.
I'm not complaining, mind you. What is, is. Can't change the laws of 
physics, but I do recall my first reaction being, partly discouraged 
that I would be limited on what I could roast in it, until I could get 
ahold of another drum, and I guess have to learn when to use it and when 
not too.
But the other great features of this machine will save me time in so 
many other areas, that I'm not that concerned about it. If it does what 
it says it does, and it sounds like it does from everything everyone is 
saying, I'm dying to get one, though I know it won't be right away. Not 
unless relatives give me a lot of cash this Christmas. :) Or my book 
hits the best seller's list (please, please, please!) ;)
-- 
Rick Copple

8) From: James Raven
Good luck on your book Rick, what made you even begin to agree with me? Do =
you know what a risk you are running? Well you are a writer and know better=
 how to put things down in comment form and yet play to both sides, good ab=
ility. I'm sure it's a wonderful machine. Never mind the struggle for money=
, nobody else does. 
You Hava Great Evening.  
Respectively,
Jim
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9) From: Rick Copple
James Raven wrote:
<Snip>
Well, I'm interested in knowing how the other drums stack up. Obviously 
he spent a good amount of time testing to decide with the wire mesh 
drum. Maybe that works best with the type of heat he is using? Were a 
more solid metal works better on a BBQ outside, but like the HT drum, 
I'm not sure what style that is but I'm thinking it is a more solid 
metal if I'm recalling pictures right.
So, I am curious about these different drums, is all. Obviously it isn't 
a design flaw, as such. But, apparently going the wire mesh route has 
its drawbacks in bean handling.
Of course, I've always cooked my chaff with the beans, it gets separated 
when I cool it off. So cool to see that black chaff flying all over the 
kitchen! But I know he was trying to get something that would have a 
final product ready when it was done, so you just dump the beans (not 
too many casual users would want to take their beans outside and blow 
all the chaff into the yard, ya know. So my guess is he went the wire 
mesh route to allow the removal of chaff during the roast, which a solid 
drum wouldn't allow. But that's just my guess.
But I know I would want both drums, and to me, it should come with both. 
Because, while maybe I might not want to have a certain piece of 
equipment with something I bought that might only get used once or 
twice, there are too many small beans to not have it. Not having it 
would be too restrictive on what I can roast.
I mean, the next time Tom comes out with a terrific blueberry Harrar 
that is a small bean size, you bet I don't want to think, "Darn, I can't 
roast that in my roaster." Of course, I could always wok it, but if I've 
got a good roaster, why would I want to do that? Not being able to roast 
certain beans in it would reduce its value, in my eyes.
Anyway, I don't think it is a design flaw. Just a reality due to the 
route he took. But I can't imagine a home roaster saying, "Naw, don't 
add the other drum, I don't ever expect to roast any peaberries again."
-- 
Rick Copple

10) From: miKe mcKoffee
The most beans I ever lost with small peaberries was about a dozen or so
testing the standard Behmor drum with a pound load. 
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
<Snip>

11) From: James Raven
No maybe you can't hear a homeroaster saying that but I sure can hear a bus=
iness man saying "O'll just charge them a little extra for the other drum" =
Makes sense to me in that arena of life, and years spent designing and busi=
ness planning. Oh well, life goes on. It is what it is, Simplicity for home=
 users. 
Hava good Rick,
Respectfully,
Jim
<Snip>
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12) From: James Raven
Seeing how many roasts you must do and have hopefully put your Behmor to th=
e test, I would imagine you would have complete results. Thanks for sharing=
. Are you selling the Behmor also as others who have chimed in are? Just cu=
rious Mike. Some of the opinions have been sales oriented, not necessarily =
true or in the best intrest of the basic consumer, As I'm sure you know.
Have a Good mike and Best wishes on all your businesses,
Jim
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re.
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13) From: Aaron Scholten
Thre's a real simple solution.
Those who doubt the machine's sturdiness or performance abilities, or 
motives behind it,  don't buy it... Wait for others who will buy t to 
report back what it does and does not do.
After 6 or 7months, or a year, or two, or 5... if you are sufficiently 
satisfied with the ongoing performance of the machine, then get one.
Aaron

14) From: gin
the perfect solution Aaron, thanks ...
I want one now!!
g
---- Aaron Scholten  wrote: 
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15) From: Joseph Robertson
Right on Aaron,
If you can't wait that long do what I did on my last camping trip. I
took along a cast iron pot, put in on some red hot coals on the camp
fire and roasted coffee. My buddies loved the taste. Not a bad batch
of Sumatra. It beats burning up his alternator on his truck, ahh
almost, when I tried to run my espresso machine off an inverter last
year.
You can't beat the smell of roasting coffee in the wide open fresh mountain air.
Ahhhh,
JoeR
On Nov 8, 2007 3:00 AM, Aaron Scholten  wrote:
<Snip>

16) From: Alchemist John
I considered writing this off list, but decided to go for on.  If you 
don't care to hear a minor rant, continue on with the next post now....
Jim, you may say "respectfully", but I have to say, you are being 
anything but that.  What you are implying is a more than a bit rude 
about Joe Behm (and others), and basically untrue, and I will say 
again, bloody unrespectful.  You don't appear to have a clue why he 
is not including both drums and this guessing and pot stirring isn't 
helping anyone.  You might think you are "getting the truth out 
there" with this approach, but you could just ASK.  Funny what might 
happen then.
Likewise, asking McGuiness if he will be selling the Behmor, "as 
others who have chimed in" is not right.   I was going to ask who 
said they were selling (because it isn't right), but it is NOT 
appropriate on THIS list.  It is the Sweet Maria's list and you don't 
talk completing businesses on Tom's dime.  Just because YOU read 
Mike's or other peoples information posts as "sales oriented, not 
necessarily true or in the best interest of the basic consumer" 
posts, doesn't make them so.  Man, get a grip. You are calling people 
LIARS here.  WTF?  Not everyone in the world does something nice JUST 
to make a buck, lies to get ahead or puts other people down to feel 
superior (and YES, I AM implying something here).  Some people are 
nice and helpful JUST to be nice and helpful.
....done now.
At 22:26 11/7/2007, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

17) From: miKe mcKoffee
Negative, not selling any home roasting appliances as part of our business
at this time or the near future.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
<Snip>
<Snip>

18) From: Rick Copple
miKe mcKoffee wrote:
<Snip>
Good to know, Mike. So, I guess what's recommended not to use are pretty 
small beans.
Well, when I'm able to finally get one, I guess I'll find out. :)
-- 
Rick Copple

19) From: miKe mcKoffee
I'd say it's recommended not to use the standard drum for very small beans
unless a minuscule loss is acceptable. I mean we're talking well less than
1% loss. OR buy the very reasonably priced optional finer mesh drum for very
small beans. (Option, as in many things I've purchased don't come with
optional accessories.)
Hmmm, our $12k shop roaster only comes with one drum, wonder if I should
complain...
FWIW the HotTop only comes with one drum and yes beans do get stuck in it,
but none fall through. Wish they did! It's pain in the butt to have to
remove 4 screws to remove the HT drum though usually can get stuck beans out
just removing the front plate. 
(Not necessarily directed to you Rick, rather elements of the general thread
tone.)
Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
www.mcKonaKoffee.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
 
<Snip>

20) From: Tom Ulmer
By the way, how do you like roasting with the shop unit? What type of drum
does it have?

21) From: Homeroaster
Now Ron Kyle can enter a new market, constructing aftermarket stainless, 
perforated drums that fit into a Behmor.  Ron?
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************


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