HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Uneven RK Drum roast (46 msgs / 1255 lines)
1) From: DeCambre.Peter
I will be out of the office starting  11/26/2002 and will not return
until 12/02/2002.
I will respond to your message when I return.
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

2) From: Michael I
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Still being pretty new to RK Drum roasting, I’ve had a few problems =
with
roasts coming out unevenly, though the last one I did was by far the =
worst.
 
My set up was pretty much the same as I had been using, but I had the =
heat
on a little bit higher, as getting the grill up to temp and keeping it =
there
proved more difficult in 40 degree windy weather.  So the heat was on
med-high through first crack of 2# of Horse Lot 14659, which occurred at
12:00.  The heat was then dropped to low.
 
First crack rolled through normally, but it sounded like some beans were
hitting second by 15:30, just as others were finishing first.  After =
opening
the hood at 16:00 and seeing the amount of smoke, I pulled it and dumped =
at
16:15.
 
Now I’ve got a mélange roast of ~60% City +, ~20% FC, 20% Vienna =
(fairly
black, oil on the surface).  I know the beans were tumbling well.  =
It’s
possible they weren’t evenly distributed along the length of the drum. =
 The
heat was higher than I usually use, but I’m going to have to do that =
in the
winter, I think.  I can imagine that the beans that were on the =
‘outside’ of
the drum may not be being mixed together with the other beans =
sufficiently,
like stirring a pot only in the middle, without scraping the stuff off =
of
the sides.  Do you guys think that’s possible?  Or is it more likely =
that
the distribution in the drum was uneven?
 
Any other thoughts on other variable I can test, or similar problems =
you’ve
had?
 
Incidentally, the mélange roast turned out very good.  We all know =
this bean
shines at City+ or so, but the addition of the other roast levels adds =
some
complexity to the cup, though it certainly diminishes the brightness
somewhat.  A happy mistake, anyway.
 
-AdkMike

3) From: CoffeeRoastersClub
Regarding uneven drum roast, you may wish to check your flame height 
(if you have dual or triple burners).  Always make sure the flames 
are even height when doing your roasts.  Uneven flame height will 
cause hot spots causing areas above those flames to roast quicker 
than the lower flame heights of other burners.
Len

4) From: Michael I
Len,
That's a good point.  On the roast in question, the settings on all three
burners were identical, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the heat at
the drum was the same.  My temp probe is at one end of the drum.  I will use
it next time to get some more readings from the other side of the drum, as
well as in the middle, to see how greatly it varies.  It is a possibility
that all of my Vienna beans came from one end of the drum.
Thanks,
-AdkMike

5) From: Sue
On 11/14/07, Michael I  wrote:
<Snip>
A couple of quick thoughts I had -
What size was your roast? If it was excessively large it might not have been
able to tumble properly.
Is your rotisserie mounted level - if not the beans may all end up in one
end of the drum!
What motor set-up are you using. You need enough revolutions per minute to
keep it even.
Just a few possibilities.
Sue

6) From: Justin Marquez
Does your grill have some sort of flame diverters or shields under the drum
area?  If not, then the higher flames could have a definite impact on the
eveness (or lack thereof) of the roast.
The wind certainly makes it tricky.  Back when we lived in West Texas, wind
was a real serious issue with the BBQ drum roaster setup.
It may be helpful to re-mount the thermometer in the center of the grill
cover as close to the horizontal centerline of the drum as possible.
What type of thermometer are you using?
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On Nov 14, 2007 11:51 AM, Michael I  wrote:
<Snip>
--

7) From: Michael I
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Sue,
That roast was 2# -- not excessively large, and an amount that I've done
without issue before.   Everything is pretty level.  I've checked bean
distribution across the drum on other roasts at both the start and end of
roast, and it was the same.  That's not to say that on this particular roast
I could have loaded them unevenly.  My motor turns at around 7 rpm, which,
although it's not 50 like Ron's motor, should be sufficient.
-Mike  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Sue
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:57 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Uneven RK Drum roast
A couple of quick thoughts I had - 
What size was your roast? If it was excessively large it might not have been
able to tumble properly.
Is your rotisserie mounted level - if not the beans may all end up in one
end of the drum!
What motor set-up are you using. You need enough revolutions per minute to
keep it even.
Just a few possibilities. 
Sue
 

8) From: Michael I
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
The grill has ceramic rods that go across the flames and serve to diffuse
the heat relatively well.  I'm definitely going to try a couple of other
mounting locations for the thermometer.  It is the digital one with the TC
from SMs.
I'll try my next roast on a calm day, so I can at least eliminate that
variable.
-AdkMike  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Justin Marquez
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 1:01 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Uneven RK Drum roast
Does your grill have some sort of flame diverters or shields under the drum
area?  If not, then the higher flames could have a definite impact on the
eveness (or lack thereof) of the roast.
The wind certainly makes it tricky.  Back when we lived in West Texas, wind
was a real serious issue with the BBQ drum roaster setup.
It may be helpful to re-mount the thermometer in the center of the grill
cover as close to the horizontal centerline of the drum as possible.
What type of thermometer are you using?
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX) 

9) From: Tom Ulmer
I don't use this specific drum but this is similar to results when I =
ramp
the heat took quickly. The effect is more pronounced with smaller beans.

10) From: Justin Marquez
Actually, the drum will redistribute the beans pretty evenly no matter how
you have loaded it - UNLESS the drum is not reasonably level in the
operating condition. Maybe a quick check with a level may help. Is the grill
itself on relatively level ground?  It is worth a quick check.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On Nov 14, 2007 12:03 PM, Michael I  wrote:
<Snip>

11) From: Oaxaca Charly
Michael I  wrote:          st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }                     Still being pretty new to RK Drum roasting, I’ve had a few problems with roasts coming out unevenly, though the last one I did was by far the worst.
   
  My set up was pretty much the same as I had been using, but I had the heat on a little bit higher, as getting the grill up to temp and keeping it there proved more difficult in 40 degree windy weather.  So the heat was on med-high through first crack of 2# of Horse Lot 14659, which occurred at 12:00.  The heat was then dropped to low.
   
  First crack rolled through normally, but it sounded like some beans were hitting second by 15:30, just as others were finishing first.  After opening the hood at 16:00 and seeing the amount of smoke, I pulled it and dumped at 16:15.
   
  Now I’ve got a mélange roast of ~60% City +, ~20% FC, 20% Vienna (fairly black, oil on the surface).  I know the beans were tumbling well.  It’s possible they weren’t evenly distributed along the length of the drum.  The heat was higher than I usually use, but I’m going to have to do that in the winter, I think.  I can imagine that the beans that were on the ‘outside’ of the drum may not be being mixed together with the other beans sufficiently, like stirring a pot only in the middle, without scraping the stuff off of the sides.  Do you guys think that’s possible?  Or is it more likely that the distribution in the drum was uneven?
   
  Any other thoughts on other variable I can test, or similar problems you’ve had?
   
  Incidentally, the mélange roast turned out very good.  We all know this bean shines at City+ or so, but the addition of the other roast levels adds some complexity to the cup, though it certainly diminishes the brightness somewhat.  A happy mistake, anyway.
   
  -AdkMike
  A few guesses, based on my experience.....
 When the wind gets blowing on the grill the thermometer becomes much less trustworthy and I rely more on gas settings and time.. You may well need to raise the gas level more than when it's calm out, but do it conservatively. The roast may take longer than what you're used to but at least you'll be less likely to go racing through first crack too fast. It becomes more instinctive after *much* practice. The beans should be getting moved all around in your RK, with it's well designed paddles.
 Make sure that your grill is on the level. My worst roasts ever happened when my grill was tilted and I didn't notice.
 Harar is one of the trickiest beans to get a completely even roast with, it's a fun challenge.
 Buena suerte!
  Charly
---------------------------------
Get easy, one-click access to your favorites.  Make Yahoo! your homepage.

12) From: Matthew Evans
Michael,
What are you using for a motor.  I had very uneven roasts with the 6 rpm motor from the normal rotisserie setup.  I could do a half-pound but that was it.  Once I got a 60 RPM motor my roasts got wonderfully even and controllable up to 4 pounds.
Cheers,
Matt
Grill roasting up north.... only the strong survive.
---------------------------------
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.

13) From: CoffeeRoastersClub
Michael,
Even though the knobs on your BBQ may be set the same, you may also 
wish to visually inspect the flame height also.  I find that on my 
BBQ the knobs may be set the same, however one of the burners still 
has a higher flame height than the other (resulting in an uneven 
roast unless I adjusted it appropriately).
Len

14) From: raymanowen
"...problems with roasts coming out unevenly, though the last one I did was
by far the worst... it sounded like some beans were hitting second by 15:30=
,
just as others were finishing first."
 The drum I have is 12in long- I would guess you had a convection heat draf=
t
that was:
a.) - Intense due to the cool weather and consequent higher flame settings-
b.) - Concentrated on one end of the drum, or the middle-
Hence, the hot end was getting well into Second Crack as the cool end was
drifting lazily through First.
I think the fact that the beans do not tend to exchange from end-to-end
during the tumbling means that an uneven or small heat source will always
get the hot end , or center, to a more advanced roast level.
Quick and dirty is a diffuser, that will even out the heat source and reduc=
e
hot drafts. I'm building a "muffle" that will capture and retain most of th=
e
heat, and minimize heat flow with a contained afterburner system and
adjustable vents.
Peoria Lake is a wide spot in the Illinois River, and is the same level as
the river. Devil's Lake, in Baraboo, WI, had spillways that could maintain
the depth, and that's about what I'm designing into the muffle with vents.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Always designing and building mock-ups. When the Eagle returns, I'll
build...
On Nov 14, 2007 9:46 AM, Michael I  wrote:
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15) From: Michael I
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Ray,
I think that you, as well as Len and the others that have hinted around the
same thing, are probably right, and my heat is uneven.  I will do a little
more work to study how the grill heats from side to side.
I also may experiment with the IR heater that's specifically for the
rotisserie.  I haven't used that, yet, but, being that it's one burner, it
should provide a pretty even heat.  The difference between high and low on
it, though, may not be enough to control a roast sufficiently.  I'd try it
on some 'waste' beans, but unfortunately, I don't have any of those.
-AdkMike  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of
raymanowen
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 2:47 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Uneven RK Drum roast
"...problems with roasts coming out unevenly, though the last one I did was
by far the worst... it sounded like some beans were hitting second by 15:30,
just as others were finishing first."
 The drum I have is 12in long- I would guess you had a convection heat draft
that was:
a.) - Intense due to the cool weather and consequent higher flame settings- 
b.) - Concentrated on one end of the drum, or the middle-
Hence, the hot end was getting well into Second Crack as the cool end was
drifting lazily through First.
I think the fact that the beans do not tend to exchange from end-to-end
during the tumbling means that an uneven or small heat source will always
get the hot end , or center, to a more advanced roast level. 
Quick and dirty is a diffuser, that will even out the heat source and reduce
hot drafts. I'm building a "muffle" that will capture and retain most of the
heat, and minimize heat flow with a contained afterburner system and
adjustable vents. 
Peoria Lake is a wide spot in the Illinois River, and is the same level as
the river. Devil's Lake, in Baraboo, WI, had spillways that could maintain
the depth, and that's about what I'm designing into the muffle with vents. 
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Always designing and building mock-ups. When the Eagle returns, I'll
build...

16) From: Brian Mitchell
Just another observation, what is the roast size you are doing in the drum?
If you roast too much in a single batch, compared to the drum volume, it
will also easily cause an uneven roast. You would not get enough circulation
of the beans. Just a thought. Maybe try dropping the size of your roast.
Brian

17) From: JanoMac
Only one other person has mentioned it before this, but the Harrars (and
most other Ethiopian coffees) are notoriously "uneven roasters."
I love these coffees for their intense and often wild flavors, but it took
me a while to understand that I would ALWAYS have some beans that looked the
color of Spanish peanuts - even if I tried to take the entire roast into 2nd
crack. Some folks roast to the "average" and then remove the light beans in
an effort to even out the flavor or even make the bag/jar of roasted beans
look "pretty." Not me! Those lighter beans are part of the experience of the
Ethiopian coffees. Some of the "wildness" comes from those very beans.
All the heating/grill questions aside, you should expect the Ethiopian
coffees to be a bit uneven.
Kirk

18) From: Neil Atwood
Can I add my 2c worth and emphasise that the slow rotation speed of your
drum is going to make a difference.
While I was waiting for the motor to arrive from Ron, I used a 'standard'
rotisserie motor, and could only do 500g or so in a batch at that speed.
Moving to the higher speed allowed me to move up to 1300g on that particular
grill.
Cheers
Neil Atwood http://ministrygrounds.net.au/

19) From: Homeroaster
7 RPM is not sufficient.  You will get uneven roasts using a large drum like 
the RK.  It's not uneven bean distribution, uneven heat, or anything else. 
It's a slow spin.
Guaranteed.
There may be other factors making it worse, but I couldn't get an uneven 
roast from my drum at 57RPM if I tried.  Go at least 30 RPM if you want 
consistently even drum roasts.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

20) From: RK
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
snip: Michael I
<Snip>
with roasts coming out unevenly, though the last one I did was by far =
the worst.
You have received quite a few good logical reasons that would cause an =
uneven roast and some very good suggestions for you to try.
I roasted many lbs testing the RK Drum using a 5 rpm motor and although =
challenging and even roast is achievable with the slower cooking =
rotisserie motors.
Recommended 2 lbs or less with this motor.
A metal plate as a diffuser will help even out the heat 12 to 14 gauge =
sheet metal will work just fine. Slower ramps up and thru first crack =
and lower the heat as first gets going abit.
You will get lots of smoke with 2 lb batches don't let it scare you go =
by sound of cracks and smell and always stop the roast 15 to 20 sec. =
before target finish as it will take you that long to get it the cooler.
Try doing just 1lb and shoot for first crack at 10 to 12 min.
If you get there quicker try lower start temps the next time and if you =
get there later try a bit higher start temps the next time. Lower the =
heat about 20 degrees as first gets going and let it coast thru first. =
shoot for a 4 min time from the start of first to the finish of your =
roast.
Its all about the heat so Check to see that your gill is level and then =
check to see that the mounted drum is level. check your burners to see =
if they are burning at the same height and adjust them if not make a =
little mark on each one 
Use a sharpie pen and make a line on the grill where each burner is when =
you get the flames even. This should stay the same (not always) when you =
adjust the heat up and down and the marks will give you a good visual.
.Windy days make it more challenging try shielding your grill from the =
wind.
Harrar is notorious for roasting uneven to begin with and 2 lbs will =
make it stand out even more.
Try some Columbian or Mexican to get your temps and times down before =
going to the more difficult beans like Harrar, Yemenis, or peaberries.
Practice and notes help and as tough as it seems now it will get much =
better. New grills and new drums take time to temper and season, after =
they do the temps even out and become more stable allowing you to get =
repeatable. times with your batch roasting
Keep roasting
RK

21) From: RK
snip: ED Needham:
 It's a slow spin.
<Snip>
Good point Ed
Faster is better, but with a bit of finesse and smaller batches you can get
a even roast with as slow as 5 rpm but the faster motor makes it a chinch
and is the way to go for the optimum drum roaster set up, and is a must for
even roasts of 3 or more pounds.
I agree at least 30 rpm I use 50 rpm on my motor assmblies
RK

22) From: Homeroaster
But with 'no' finesse and a faster motor, you always get an even roast.  My 
roaster sits 1 1/2" out of level due to the faster motor spinning beans out 
the open end of my drum and even that much unevenness of distribution and 
flame height does not affect the evenness.  Just finished a 5 pound batch. 
Absolutely no unevenness at 57RPM.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

23) From: RK
Touché ED
RK

24) From: Michael I
Ron, Ed, et al,
Thanks for all of the suggestions/diagnoses. I realize that with a 7 rpm
motor, an uneven roasting bean, and still-insufficient knowledge of my
grill's hot zones, I was asking for trouble.
But I'm sure that I can get a good 2# roast out of it, which is really all
that I'm looking for (and I've gotten several previous to this one).
Putting another motor on the grill isn't really an option, as I don't want
to modify the mounts.  So I'm stuck with the stock motor (and it's not your
typical cheesy motor that comes with a Weber, I've had two 10 lb. turkeys on
there without a problem), but I'm confident I can make it work for me.
I'm not going to go the diffuser plate route, yet.  The ceramic rods do a
very good job of evening out the heat for the burner.  But, I need to
determine how hot the burners are relative to each other.
I'll work on that, and report back after the next couple of roasts on my
results.
Thanks again for all of the feedback.
-AdkMike

25) From: Jim De Hoog
Mike,
If you have a cordless variable speed drill, you can also use it to turn your drum.  I use mine to turn my "Ice Bucket drum roaster"  I use a plastic zip tie to hold the trigger and have the drill on the slow speed setting and then adjust the zip tie to have it spin at 60rpms.  You can check it with a timer.  I am using an 18v Rigid hammer drill driver.  I had a Craftsman 18v drill until the batteries expired.  I then use the drill to assist in moving the drum from the BBQ to dumping in my bean cooler.  A great way to use a power tool that might set around waiting to be used.
Jim "Ice Bucket Roaster" De Hoog
----- Original Message ----
From: Michael I 
To: homeroast
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 8:15:54 AM
Subject: RE: +Uneven RK Drum roast
Ron, Ed, et al,
Thanks for all of the suggestions/diagnoses. I realize that with a 7 rpm
motor, an uneven roasting bean, and still-insufficient knowledge of my
grill's hot zones, I was asking for trouble.
But I'm sure that I can get a good 2# roast out of it, which is really all
that I'm looking for (and I've gotten several previous to this one).
Putting another motor on the grill isn't really an option, as I don't want
to modify the mounts.  So I'm stuck with the stock motor (and it's not your
typical cheesy motor that comes with a Weber, I've had two 10 lb. turkeys on
there without a problem), but I'm confident I can make it work for me.
I'm not going to go the diffuser plate route, yet.  The ceramic rods do a
very good job of evening out the heat for the burner.  But, I need to
determine how hot the burners are relative to each other.
I'll work on that, and report back after the next couple of roasts on my
results.
Thanks again for all of the feedback.
-AdkMike

26) From: Dennis Ryan
--Apple-Mail-1--62340340
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	delsp=yes;
	format=flowed
How about cobbling together a hand crank for it? You may not want to  
do this long term, but it would help determine if a higher rpm is a  
solution to your problem.
Perhaps increasing the number of vanes inside the drum will increase  
the agitation enough so it will work better with low rpm's?
On Nov 15, 2007, at 9:15 AM, Michael I wrote:
<Snip>
--Apple-Mail-1--62340340
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charsetO-8859-1
How about cobbling together a =
hand crank for it? You may not want to do this long term, but it would =
help determine if a higher rpm is a solution to your problem.
Perhaps increasing the = number of vanes inside the drum will increase the agitation enough so it = will work better with low rpm's?
On Nov 15, = 2007, at 9:15 AM, Michael I wrote:

Putting another motor on the = grill isn't really an option, as I don't want

to modify the mounts.  So I'm stuck with the stock = motor (and it's not your

typical cheesy motor that comes with a Weber, I've had two 10 = lb. turkeys on

there without a problem), but I'm confident I can make it = work for me.

= = --Apple-Mail-1--62340340--

27) From: Michael I
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I think I like the idea of the drill better than the hand crank.  I get
enough exercise with my Zass.  :-)
I really believe that the beans are agitated plenty, and it's the side to
side heat that's the problem.  If I get to the point that I'm satisfied with
the evenness of the heat, and I'm still getting problems, then I'll figure
out a way to speed up the drum.  One variable at a time.
-AdkMike  
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Dennis Ryan
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 10:32 AM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +Uneven RK Drum roast
How about cobbling together a hand crank for it? You may not want to do this
long term, but it would help determine if a higher rpm is a solution to your
problem.
Perhaps increasing the number of vanes inside the drum will increase the
agitation enough so it will work better with low rpm's?

28) From: CoffeeRoastersClub
Ed,
At the high RPM of 57, do you ever notice a pulverization of the 
coffee beans?  I ask because of the issue of the interior fins 
whacking the bean mass at the high rpm and wonder if that may cause such.
Len

29) From: Brett Mason
I use the same motor - have never had a damaged bean from the fins, rivets
or acts-of-God inside the drum...
Brett
On 11/15/07, CoffeeRoastersClub  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

30) From: Homeroaster
I have never noticed a problem with that.  It's really not any higher than 
commercial roaster RPM's.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

31) From: Homeroaster
"No beans were harmed in the roasting of this coffee"

32) From: Tom Ulmer
This conjures images of beans in character portraying the epic tragedies of
third crack...

33) From: True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)
Ok I know I am a bit (OK way late) on getting in on this I have had 1 =
roast come out uneven as described I'm not sure what happened other than =
I did inadvertently carry the roast a bit too far but when I pulled it I =
honestly thought that I would be ok... Well until I put them in the =
cooler and I saw a mélange from city to FC+ how it happened I have no =
idea (but Steven said that it was still really good so I don't feel too =
badly about it.  My mulligan roast (as I have dubbed it) was a 2# IMV =
with the commercial motor from RK in the 6# drum the air temp was about =
72F.  The roast went 17 min start to finish with 1 min to room temp =
beans. 
I have done 15 roasts since with no hint of this again....and with the =
higher RPM motor I have never seen any bean damage from 1# to 6# and I =
have done 45 roasts with the drum to date...
Just my 2 cents....
Dennis

34) From: Floyd Lozano
The 57 rpm motor is one revolution per second, roughly, so isn't
terribly fast, not fast enough to crush the beans at all, it simply
spins them around so much that they spend a lot of time in the air and
tumbling around, and probably don't develop hot spots as easily on the
surface (arguments about actual point of contact with hot surface
notwithstanding) and all that moving about, in my opinion, gives most
of the beans the same type of contact with hot air, drum, and beans as
all it's brothers and sisters.  The slower the tumble, the more of a
'stratifying' effect you get, with the inner beans just sliding along
the tops of the outer beans, until the drum reaches the point in its
revolution that all of the outer beans cascade, flip over the inner
beans, and continue on.  I can't prove any of this of course but it
looks really cool in my technicolor imagination.
-F
On Nov 15, 2007 12:49 PM, Tom Ulmer  wrote:
<Snip>

35) From: Neil Atwood
I'm not Ed, but my motor is also 57rpm, and no, there's absolutely no
evidence of 'damage' to the beans at that speed.
Many commercial drum roasters also spin at speeds around the 50-60rpm, so I
would expect no such problems from the speed factor.
Cheers
Neil Atwood http://ministrygrounds.net.au/-

36) From: Brian Mitchell
A cheap option, that has worked great for me is an old car window motor. You
can get one on eBay for about $15-20. Or at a salvage yard for a few bucks.
I just mounted mine on a wooden stand to match the height of the rotisserie
groves in the grill. I get about 45 RPM's and it works great!
I also use to have a motor that only did about 4 - 5 rpms and had the same
problem with uneven roasts. The beans do not move quickly enough inside the
drum and cause some to over/under roasting. As it has been stated before,
the key is the rotation.
If you are interested, I would be happy to send a few quick pics of my motor
setup, just so you have an idea of what I am talking about. This is a cheap
and easy solution (and fun to build, if you like that type of stuff. I do
since I built my drum and motor from scratch, which I can also send pics if
you are interested in). Good luck with the roasting.
Brian

37) From: raymanowen
I certainly don't mean to question your functioning model, Brian, but it
would bother me that the duty cycle of a window worm gear motor is normally
only a few seconds per hour, at the most.
A wiper gear motor might have to run for hours continuously. Failure is not
an option on those things. I like to play with electric motors, but I hate
brushes.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
On Nov 15, 2007 12:11 PM, Brian Mitchell  wrote:
<Snip>

38) From: Justin Marquez
"Well... apart from all that... how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?"
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)
On Nov 15, 2007 8:15 AM, Michael I  wrote:
<Snip>
--

39) From: Brian Mitchell
Well, motors in general tend to keep working as long as they are not abused.
I have had this window motor for over a year now, without the slightest
problem. After wiring the transformer and resistor, the motor has worked
fine from day one.
Also, in most cars, the window and windshield motor are almost identical.
Worse case scenario, if the motor does burn out once a year, it costs me $5
bucks to replace, opposed to spending $225 on an RK motor that will probably
only last 2-3 times as long. Seems like a no brainer to me.
Those are just my two cents.
Brian

40) From: Brett Mason
What Brian is having trouble with, is the explanation of why his roast keeps
going UP, then DOWN, then UP, then DOWN, etc...
Brett
On 11/15/07, Brian Mitchell  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

41) From: Denis and Marjorie True
Care to share the specifics on the conversion so we can considering yet 
one more mod for our obsession?
Dennis
Brian Mitchell wrote:
<Snip>

42) From: Homeroaster
I'm guessing the RK motors include all the mounting hardware and connections 
for electrical, right?
If you are good with making a mount, similar motors are available athttp://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID07111521462442&item=5-1183&catname=
 for $39.95 plus shipping.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

43) From: RK
correct
RK

44) From: raymanowen
A few things come to mind when you say:
"...motors in general tend to keep working as long as they are not abused. I
have had this window motor for over a year now, without the slightest
problem. After wiring the transformer and resistor, the motor has worked
fine from day one...  Also, in most cars, the window and windshield motor
are almost identical. Worse case scenario, if the motor does burn out once a
year, it costs me $5 bucks to replace, opposed to spending $225 on an RK
motor that will probably only last 2-3 times as long. Seems like a no
brainer to me"
W.W.Grainger publishes a huge catalog, a large part of which is devoted to
replacement motors. They've thrived for decades, selling a Hell of a lot of
replacements for motors that gave up the ghost.
I wonder what kind of transformer and resistor you're using to make the
motor spin, because they usually get 11 - 15vdc in an automobile.
Automotive engineers are not accustomed to wasting even a fraction of a cent
in their design of any part of a car, and putting the same motor in a window
lift as in the windshield wiper drive is far fetched.
John DeLorean was a Pontiac engineer, and it drove them wild when the
division would OK practically Carte Blanche to develop a hot engine that
they would sell, maybe 1,000 worldwide, with no warranty, but they had to
save fractions of pennies on millions of cars that they had to warranty!
(The windshield wipers hidden and protected by the cowl was his design.)
Then there's the 385hp blowers in the Atlantic City Convention Hall organ...
When Robert Elmore recorded *Bach on the Biggest* on the 25 year old
instrument on November 23, 1956, everybody assumed the organ played
perfectly when they listened to the Mercury record.
In 1957, Elmore wrote that they had to record the music in parts because
some of the dc blower motors would occasionally stop running. Large sections
of the 33,000 pipes would go silent. Extrapolating a small observation and
assumption is not reality. The "new" 600hp three phase motors are only about
ten years old. They don't have any brushes, so there's hope.
You impute a 2 - 3 year lifespan to the gear motors that Ron Kyle sells. I
have had a far lesser, but similar gear motor that I've used in several
different projects in the 20-odd years I've had it. Please don't use such a
big font when you make your "...probably only last 2-3 times as long."
assertion!
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
On Nov 15, 2007 2:28 PM, Brian Mitchell  wrote:
<Snip>

45) From: CoffeeRoastersClub
RayO,
I have used Grainger a few times for various items such as power 
shears and other things.  However I have found their pricing on 
motors to be a bit high.  SurplusCenter.com has a good selection of 
much more competitively priced motors.  You may wish to check them out.
Len

46) From: raymanowen
"Grainger... pricing on motors [can] be a bit high."
You're quite right, Len, they are proud of everything in their catalog.
Everything in their catalog is in stock at one of their outlets in the area,
or a day or two out, depending on how much the client is willing to pay for
shipping.
Grainger's is the price limit for the stuff you need, and if you can trade a
few dollars for a few hours' researching, the equipment manufacturer or
direct distributor beat the price. Everything from one source is a concept
hard to beat, and time is money when a client's process is down...
Nearly everything was available directly in Denver town, but Chicago and
Cleveland beat this cow town, and they both have fabulous ethnic
neighborhoods, cafes and coffee shops.
I agree with the Surplus Center observation. There was a similar but smaller
Gateway Electronics outlet here, based in St. Louis. All kinds of surplus
electronic- mechanical stuff.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
On Nov 17, 2007 7:15 AM, CoffeeRoastersClub 
wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976


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