I love my IR2, it is only about 3 months old. I have 60 roasts and toasted only one, when I fell asleep (I know, stupid). I can easily detect the cracks, that has been something I have always been able to do, distinguish sounds. I can see and smell the beans; and besides the profiles I love writing and testing, I use my senses deeply with each roast. I can get, assuming the machine keeps working another 2 years from this machine, learning the entire time, every roast is a lesson. I am having so much experimenting and enjoying and giving great coffee. The size of the roast chamber is perfect, because it is just me drinking the coffee. Once a month I do three roasts in a day for my mom's monthly quota. I do two roasts a day for some friends some times, but they like tasting all of the great beans so they usually want the 155 grams I usually roast. But, with the Behmor out there I feel like I am missing out on something. I don't have a smoke problem due to the dryer hose, don't even turn off smoke detectors anymore. And, yes, the batteries are good. But I feel like I am falling behind. One day, after I learn all about beans, what they want in a roast, what I like in a roast, all of it, I think I want to go to an outdoor drum, but even then, I don't know if I can roast the amounts I roast. I am torn, get a Behmor after only three months because it seems everyone got one and love it - and I am sure it is great - or put my ego away and keep learning. Try new beans, work to dial in to the best possible roast. I owe Dennis a holiday roast and I am scared. How does someone give someone as talented as Dennis a roast he won't cringe at - well, he won't, he is too polite, but still .... Am I the only one going through this? I got over needing every bean Tom gets for us so I can get my stash down to a manageable size, now I have to get over "roaster envy" and knowledge envy. After all the IR2 stands a full 13.5 inches when assembled, nothing to sneeze at. Do any of you feel this way when new stuff comes out? Or have I been inhaling too much of the smoke?
I'm there with you Stephen. I have a whirly-pop, a Fresh Roast 8, an iR2, and a HG/BrM rig. Now I'm lusting over the Behmor. I am wrestling with some of the same issues as you. I feel like I have more roasters than I know how to use already, why get another? I feel like a kid when a hot new toy hits the stores. "But, mom; all my friends have one! Why can't I?" I've made up my mind to wait. I really don't need yet another appliance in the kitchen, or anywhere for that matter. I get roasts that I'm very happy with from my HG/BrM and my iR2. I guess if the iR2 dies, I'll probably get a Behmor. Until then, I'll just read about all the fun the other kids are having with the newest toy on the market and sigh. It is tempting though, isn't it? On 11/21/07, Stephen Carey wrote: <Snip> -- Larry J
wait it out - roasting coffee is the goal, how you do it does not matter. Hell, I am going 7 months w/o even roasting, and will be MORE the happy to go back to my dhbolten roaster and my SC/TO... The goal is roasted coffee, not the roaster! Drinking some beans that the Waschers roasted for me...and feeling really guilty since I ate almost an entire BOX of pfferneus last night (I have been on a workout/diet routine that almost has me back to a sixpack at 40!...so I departed from my Spartan ways for a bit...oh well). Roast with your IR until it dies and THEN get a new roaster. Sean 77 to go until I leave this lovely part of the world for the 3rd time. On 11/22/07, Larry Johnson wrote: <Snip>
Stephen Same issues - same roaster, same "tool lust." I am learning, however, to be patient. And to be content. and to find joy in the contentment. Not always been the case. I have only had my IR2 for about 2-1/2 months, about 35-40 roasts so far, and SO much to learn. But I love the coffee, and I love the joy it brings my wife. I think the IR2 makes the process more personal right now, which is what I need as I learn. The bohmer is more a set it and forget it roaster (obviously with room to twiddle as Les is sharing with us). For now the sound doesn't bother me of the IR2, it has been rock-steady so far, and I am getting fairly repeatable results. I know the day will come when I get the bohmer or the next great thing, but for now, I like "the little IR2 that could." Cheers - Robert RG At 10:22 PM 11/21/2007, you wrote: <Snip> "I have measured out my life with coffee spoons." ~T.S. Eliot
Great discussion folks! Make sure your decision is based on improving your results. If there is a roast profile you can't hit, or a size limitation you can't meet, or an environmental need you can't meet, then consider whether another roaster will meet that. But if you are meeting your needs, and your coffee exsploration is all about the next bean, you're likely in the right place... I have been feeling the same about espresso machines. A week ago I picked up a used 15-bar pump machine for $25. It's not a vivalde. It won't HX or E-61. It makes great cappos, and decent espresso. I have learned enough the hard way to understand temp surfing, and I am surfing the temp into very drinkable macchiattos, espressos, americanos, etc. So fight the urge, unless specific features and benefits bring you specific value. Apart from that your wallet will be lighter and your results may disappoint... 2 scents (roasting and grinding) Brett On Nov 21, 2007 10:57 PM, Robert Gulley <2bopen4all> wrote: <Snip> -- Cheers, Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com
Stephen, if you are the only drinker, then the I roast is probably all you need, But, the I roast does 5.5 ounces at a shot, ideally.... the behmore can do half a pound 8 oz, or 1/4 pound 4 oz, and you can go inbetween there at any bit you want and manually adjust the time too... it can also do a full pound (christmas presents)... You never stop learning, the roaster is just a tool. Ive been hearing for a few years that drum roasted beans have an entirely different personality over fluid bed roasted (air popped)... now I finally get to try it myself. The thing you have to ask yourself is, do I REALLY need it, or even want it badly, or is it going to be an 'impulse' buy. and not really do much different for me. It is a significantly different roaster though, drum versus air pop. If you had a Hot top, and an RK, and then wanted to get this one, in that case Id say, ok it's approaching overkill, you already have two other drum roasters but since you don't... in my mind, it's a very justifiable purchase. Being an 'only drinker' of coffee sometimes doesn't stay that way. Friend A loves your coffee, and you give him some, sister loves it and wants some, guys at work like it... next thing you know, you are going through 2 pounds a week for an 'only drinker'..... The I roast can only do limited numbers of roasts. I believe 2 in one day, 5 a week is their posted limit??? It has changed over time, but still you are limited to 5 a week without risking premature ageing of the unit. The drum units, you can pretty much do unlimited (within reason) back to backs. The Rk is not going to die, the hot top claims to be able to handle an all day roasting marathon and I talked to mr Behm and he said that his unit in prototyping did a LOT of back to back roasting with no ill effects. Personally I can't tell you how to spend your money, but will say if you do get a Behmor, it won't be a waste of money, and no it's not ego, you are trying to learn, and this is an entirely different method of roasting over the I roast, you will learn a lot about coffee you weren't exposed to with an air roaster. Aaron
Aaron, I own an IR2. Although this machine is somewhat unpredictable and finicky, I have learned its quirks and produce a nice roast with it. I am intrigued by your statement that the results are different with an air roast and a drum. This interests me. It's quite apparent from everyone's comments that the Behmore does a bigger volume, is a nice machine and will probably be dependable. But could you please comment on the resulting roasted beans between the two (air vs drum) and the cupping. Does the drum roaster produce a better coffee? I've seen people mention this before like it's an evolution toward a machine that produces cupping. Awaiting your word on it. Thanks. Phil
--=====================_610728875==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Good catch. I meant the part of the roaster is different. They learn new things. I still can't tell what the major differences are over the types of roasting on the bean, though one person told me that my IR2 dried out the beans (?) Misstatement on my part, speaking of what one does to make it roast, maybe needs to learn, etc. I have never used a drum roaster - part of my envy - so I don't know, but I trust Tom's results to be pretty much for any roaster he then sells, so I feel I am save and I don't think I am drying the bean out with the roasts I do, though I could make charcoal, by falling asleep, as I have done. And I can do that on any roaster when working my hours at times, I would reckon we most could. So, Phil, excuse the error, wasn't saying what I wrote (sounds like a politician a bit)! At 09:36 AM 11/22/2007, you wrote: <Snip> --=====================_610728875==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Good catch. I meant the part of the roaster is different. They learn new things. I still can't tell what the major differences are over the types of roasting on the bean, though one person told me that my IR2 dried out the beans (?) Misstatement on my part, speaking of what one does to make it roast, maybe needs to learn, etc. I have never used a drum roaster - part of my envy - so I don't know, but I trust Tom's results to be pretty much for any roaster he then sells, so I feel I am save and I don't think I am drying the bean out with the roasts I do, though I could make charcoal, by falling asleep, as I have done. And I can do that on any roaster when working my hours at times, I would reckon we most could. So, Phil, excuse the error, wasn't saying what I wrote (sounds like a politician a bit)! At 09:36 AM 11/22/2007, you wrote: Aaron, I own an IR2. Although this machine is somewhat unpredictable and finicky, I have learned its quirks and produce a nice roast with it. I am intrigued by your statement that the results are different with an air roast and a drum. This interests me. It's quite apparent from everyone's comments that the Behmore does a bigger volume, is a nice machine and will probably be dependable. But could you please comment on the resulting roasted beans between the two (air vs drum) and the cupping. Does the drum roaster produce a better coffee? I've seen people mention this before like it's an evolution toward a machine that produces cupping. Awaiting your word on it. Thanks. Phil
I don't see how it really could dry out the bean to the point that it is detrimental unless you went a long long time, I mean you heat it to 400+ degrees to roast it, Id think any method would dry it out really when you look at it that way, drying out is part of the act of roasting it.. If you take too long to roast it, you can cook the bean, and it gets a flat taste, but with air roasters, the problem tends to be that it can roast too quickly. ie a full second crack is easily possible in around 5 minutes in some circumstances. Many claim that is roasting too quick, and after tasting the beans I have done that with, I have to agree. Either way, my typical I roast cycle runs about 7ish to maybe 8 minutes TOPS. generally right around 715 to 730 minutes. I hold the beans right on the threshold of first crack generally for about 30 seconds to a minute depending on the bean, or just let it into first, then ramp the heat and let it rip for the final minute or two until the cracks die down and its getting close to second. I rarely take my beans into second of any significance, with some, just letting it touch second before hitting the cool button. That's one thing I am learning with the behmor. There's a lot of heat mass in half a pound or a full pound of beans, and even though you hit cool, they have enough energy to run a bit longer, where the I roast can pretty much halt the cooking / snapping process within a few seconds of hitting cool. Either way, I had my first cup of drum roasted this morning, and Hmm, very good, better than I roast, no but just as good I think. Aaron
I bought one not just for the wow factor, but because friends (who used to expect wine) now expect homeroasted coffee as hostess gifts from me, and my family has become a colony of java junkies (even my "any-port-in-a-storm" son who formerly resorted to hotel-room coffee- packs in a 4-c. Mr. Coffee when necessary has begun to expect the real thing). The SC/TO is a tad unwieldy (and requires rejiggering my entire stove-surround area and laying down foil all around to attempt to contain the chaff), and my i-Rs can get smoky and stall out unpredictably if one load is a little heavier than the next despite what my gram scale says. The ability to bang out 1/2-lb to a lb. at a time several times a day is extremely appealing. On Nov 22, 2007, at 5:40 AM, Aaron wrote: <Snip> Sandy Andina www.myspace.com/sandyandina
This has been a great discussion. I have had several modified air popcorn poppers, an I-Roast, a Hearthware Precision, HG/DB, 2 Androcks for roasting over fire, and a RK drum. I have roasted on several Hottops and other roasters in the past 22 years. I have roasted on a Probat, Sivetz 4 kilo air roaster, and a couple of Dietrichs. Now I have added a Behmor. I have had excellent roasts from all of these roasters. I bought a Behmor because Thor Tamper is offering them, and I thought I had better do some roasting on one. What has pushed me to the Behmor is that it is an excellent entry level roaster. It is well made, and customer service as many have expressed is and will be excellent. It does what it is designed to do well. It does not have the power and flexibility of the RK drum. Robert Gully talked about "tool lust." I think we can all fall into that trap. I think it is important to learn how to roast and take your roast to its limits before thinking an upgrade will automatically improve your roasting skills. One of the exercises that improved my roasting was learning how to roast over an open fire with the Androck. Everything is variable when you are roasting over fire. Just think about it or better yet, try it! I will confess I did start a roast on fire! Coffee beans burn real hot! Some of the best coffee I have ever had has come from Mike McKoffee and Alchemist John. They used very different roasters, but they both know and understand the roasting process. The best roasts will always come from someone who understands the process and the bean they are roasting. What helps is having a stable and measurable as well as repeatable roasting tool. The Behmor provides that with limited flexibility. You don't need a thermometer cause you can't change it, the Behmor doesn't have that flexibility. You have to pay for flexibility. Since I have had the opportunity to work with some commercial roasters I have come to appreciate the flexibility that goes along with their power and stability. So, I have bit the bullet and am going all out and I should have one of these arriving in January,http://www.usroastercorp.com/sample.htmLes On Nov 22, 2007 10:00 AM, Sandra Andina wrote: <Snip>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Wow an 88 pound baby. Without a mid-wife. I am impressed. Can I be G-d = Father? Congratulations.
Les, Heartily agree! Learn the coffee bean(s) ... Learn how to roast the coffee bean(s) ... Learn how to use the appliance(s), tool(s) of choice ... Roast the coffee bean to perfection with the tool of choice ... YOU are the roaster ... Congratulations on the acquisition of your new tool! Happy Thanksgiving! Eddie -- Vita non est vivere sed valere vita est Roasting Blog and Profiles for the Gene Cafehttp://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/On 11/22/07, Les wrote: <Snip>
Nice - now I have 2 roasters to lust over... Brett On Nov 22, 2007 12:44 PM, Les wrote: <Snip> -- Cheers, Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com
Sandy, Have you had a chance to try your Behmor yet? Brian
Yes, Brian--works like a charm with a shorter learning curve than the i-Roast. See my posts on the list. On Nov 23, 2007, at 12:52 PM, Brian Kamnetz wrote: <Snip> Sandy Andina www.myspace.com/sandyandina