I thought some people here might be interested in a discussion I started over on the CoffeeGeek forums. I've been experimenting for several months with a new coffee brewing method that I've come to like quite a bit. It works on the same principle as a Clover (the $10,000 coffee brewing machine that everybody raves about), but it costs about $50. If you like Aeropress-style coffee, you will like this. The main benefits of my method over the Aeropress are that you can do much more than just 4 shots at once, and nothing plastic ever touches the coffee. I have never actually tried Clover coffee, but I imagine the results are pretty similar to what I can get, without having to take out a second mortgage on my house. Here's the discussion of the method over on CoffeeGeek:http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/335303Here's an eBay auction for a similar type of setup to what I'm using (not quite the same, but you'll get the idea from the picture):http://tinyurl.com/yv98azFeel free to ask questions, either here or over there, if you're interested. -- Randall
AARRGH! The last thing I need right now is another project. But I do so want to try this. Folks on this list almost have too many ideas. pecan jim On Dec 10, 2007, at 6:32 PM, Randall Nortman wrote: <Snip>
Wish I'd seen this about 37 years, 3 months and 11 days ago when I was in a chemistry lab (in grad school) every day! Very interesting idea and _SO_ simple if you have the equipment handy. Dave Westerville, OH On 12/10/07, Randall Nortman wrote: <Snip>
Sounds interesting I have wished for a larger Aero Press myself... I see on the post that filter materal strengh could be an issue depending on hole size in the funnel first thing I thought of was what about polyester for the filter? Any thoughts? Seems stronger than paper and some even like the mouth feel better than paper for the AP... Just my 2 cents! Dennis
On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 12:35:58PM -0500, True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69) wrote: <Snip> If you read the most recent comments in the thread, you'll find that the mid-priced funnels have small enough holes that filter breakage isn't a problem. Unless you get the really awful funnel I got at first, which is really cheaply made and has huge holes, you'll be fine. It would appear that the typical $50 setup being sold on eBay and elsewhere is plenty good enough. That said, a poly filter would probably allow more oils through (I haven't tried), as would cloth (which I have tried). You can also get glass microfiber filters that I think would do a superb job, though they're a little expensive. The challenge with metal is getting a good seal. I'm sure it can be done, but I haven't bothered, as I'm quite happy with paper and don't actually want the oils. (For health reasons, not taste.) For paper, I have found that decent lab filter papers (from Whatman, made in the UK) do a good job, but so do Melitta coffee filters cut to the right size. It's just a little inconvenient to have to cut them yourself. Generic lab filter papers do not do as well as Whatman brand -- they clog and break more easily. They start to disintegrate as soon as hot water hits them, whereas the Whatman papers can actually be rinsed and reused if you're careful. So can the Melitta papers. I need to try cutting out rounds of Chemex filters at some point. -- Randall
Veeeery interesting. Like Dennis, I've wished for a larger capacity AP myself. I may just have to give this a try. Thanks for the head up! Keep us posted if you do try the Chemex filters. Kris McN
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. next thought.....LOL.. you guys are going to love me or hate me for this... What about instead of the pump use the Vac sealer alread sitting on your counter? I got a tube set up wiht mine for mason jars... HMMMM HEHEEH Devious minds at work scary thought huh? Dennis
Oh, see! The genius switch is never off with you, Dennis! I'm going to order up one of these sets (I've been calling it the WonderClown 6000 in my head) and give it a try! Kris McN
On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 03:12:07PM -0800, Kris McN wrote: <Snip> WonderClown 6000... has a nice ring to it. I think it's not quite good enough, though -- how about the WonderClown 9000? That's much better. Here are some shopping tips: The flask shouldn't be too big if you're going to use a hand pump, because you have to pump a lot more to get a vacuum with a bigger flask. I use a 500ml flask -- that's about 16floz capacity. If you're making concentrated, espresso-strength brews like me, that's big enough for 10 "shots" (two shots in a normal mug of coffee). The funnel size also determines capacity. I usually pour in the coffee slurry all at once, but if it doesn't all fit, you can of course pour in a little at a time. I've tried three sizes of funnel, and this is how much I can do with the "all at once" method. Figure about double these numbers if you pour in a little at a time: 70mm: 2 shots (barely) 90mm: 4 shots (easily) 110mm: 10 shots (barely) Funnels are sized by filter diameter, but different brands are different depths, so they hold different amounts. Mine are all CoorsTek brand, which is like the Cadillac of lab porcelain (and priced like it, too). Other brands have slightly lower capacities, I think. For the vacuum pump, I bought mine at a local auto parts store for about $30. I think it might be slightly higher quality than the ones being sold online, but I can't say for sure. Of course, the vacuum sealer idea is a great one -- if you have one of those, give it a shot by all means. -- Randall
So I went ahead and bought the WonderClown 9000 set up you linked to on Ebay (Merry Christmas, me!) - I figure I can always get another funnel at some point if I want/need different capacity, but this would be a good starter to play around with. You mentioned filter paper quality, do you happen to know if the filters included in that set are of sufficient quality? I happen to have a box of Whatmans around (because I'm a NERD). I'll dig them out and see if they're big enough, but I will want to try other filter material at some point. I do have a FoodSaver, so I'll be trying that out as well. Thanks for all the info, Randall. Ooooh! This is going to be fun! Kris McN
On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 04:01:45PM -0800, Kris McN wrote: <Snip> They are good enough if you get the grind right. If the grind is too fine, or your grinder makes a lot of dust, those filters may clog up on you. Doubling them up actually helps a little if that happens, or make the grind a bit coarser. If all else fails, cut circles out of a drip filter, which I've found works really well. (I've used Melitta brand.) I think with your Foodsaver, if the filter clogs, you might end up drawing a pretty strong vacuum in the flask. Inspect the flask carefully before you use it to look for small cracks which might weaken it. You might want to wear a pair of safety goggles the first time you crank up the vacuum on that thing, just to be sure. -- Randall
Good thought on the glasses Oh Kris I can't wait to hear how it works.... Please let us know!!! (Oh and give our best to little luna bee!!!) Dennis
So have you gotten the WC9K yet?... have you tried it out? don't be shy Kris inquiring minds want to know! Dennis Kris McN wrote: <Snip>
I do have my WC9K! I will tell you all about it, but I'm in Albuquerque at a workshop *at this very moment*, so I'll post next week about it. I just didn't want you to think I was ignoring you. Kris McN On Jan 7, 2008 8:57 AM, Denis and Marjorie True wrote: <Snip>
<Snip> I read a bit of the coffeegeek thread and it sounds very interesting. I'd love to see a video of it in action.
Well what is it Dan? Love to learn about new systems that are reasonable in price.......
Youtube search clover coffee and the first one you get is this...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfWIkAUsinM********************* Ed Needham "to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************
On Thu, Jan 10, 2008 at 02:04:31AM -0500, Ed Needham wrote: <Snip> He's not talking about an actual Clover, but rather my poor imitation of one, which was dubbed by somebody on this list as the "WonderClown 9000", or WC9k. It's a method which produces excellent coffee in my not-so-humble opinion -- if you get all the variables right. It's basically a chemisty lab vacuum filtration setup -- total cost around $50-70, depending on what size you get, and unlike the Aeropress, only glass, porcelain, and the filter media of your choice ever touches the coffee -- no plastic. The variables of time, temperature, and water/coffee ratio are completely in control of the user, and you have a lot of flexibility in grind fineness as well, with the only limitation being that if you go too fine, filtration will take longer than you probably want it to. I use a grind on the coarse end of the espresso range (much finer than drip) and can filter in about 30 seconds, which is fast enough. These days I use a water/coffee ratio of 140mL to 20g for a double, which produces something much stronger than regular coffee but weaker than espresso. I dilute after brewing with another 140mL or so to make a nice robust "americano", just as with the official Aeropress method. I vary my water temperature from 190F to 200F depending on the coffee, with most coffees being on the high end of that range. (The actual brew temperature is lower than this, because the grounds start out cold and drop the temperature almost immediately. The amount of temperature drop depends on the water/coffee ratio and whether you have pre-heated the glassware, which I always do.) The coffeegeek thread, with photos but no video, is here:http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/335303I ought to post a video, I suppose. I think my digital camera can take short videos, but I've never done it. My most recent discovery in the process is that human lungs can substitute for the mechanical vacuum pump well enough. I discovered this during my holiday travels, when I packed my pump badly and broke it. I haven't replaced it yet. I would be very interested in hearing from anybody else who tries my method. I don't stand to make any money on it -- you can buy the equipment pretty cheaply from lab supply shops online. There are plenty on eBay.
<Snip> Watching the videos on the site a Dave used a wire whisk to stir the coffee. Anyone tried doing that with the Aero? Might change the cup-- Treshell
I have used a plastic fork with the inverted AP method... Works pretty similarly... Brett AP is my Clover $11,955 still in my pocket Brett On Jan 10, 2008 11:09 PM, Treshell wrote: <Snip> -- Cheers, Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com
A wire whisk works very well for stirring the beans while roasting with a heat gun. I suspect it also does a superior job in stirring coffee into hot water. They come in several sizes. Treshell wrote: <Snip>
I use one of those battery powered swizzle sticks. It really keeps the bloom down and mixes it very well. PeterZ Brett Mason wrote: <Snip>
that's not a bad idea-- I got one from a friend for Christmas and haven't even put batteries in it yet. I've just been using the brandy swirl method and pouring in the water in stages as it blooms and swirls. On Jan 11, 2008 12:51 AM, peterz wrote: <Snip> -- -Kevin Admit your errors before someone else exaggerates them. - Andrew V. Mason