HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Espresso bean recommendation (15 msgs / 450 lines)
1) From: an iconoclast
I gave some Zigzag blend beans to a coworker and he said his wife enjoyed
them as drip, but they were too sour for espresso.  The blend is 1/3 Brazil
YB, 1/3 Sumatra Classic Mandheling and 1/3 Costa Rica Conquistador roasted
to FC.  I know nothing from espresso as I don't drink it.  So, I 'd like to
give him some beans appropriate for espresso and have no idea what would
that would be.
I would appreciate some suggestions to allow him to experience an awesome
home roasted espresso.  I have about 18 varieties of caffeinated beans, so
will probably have what you recommend or close to it.  I also need to know
what roast level is best for the bean.  Really don't know anything about
espresso....I'm a sipper.
Thanks,
Ann
-- 
Sweet Maria's list searchable archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/index.htm

2) From: miKe mcKoffee
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
"Too sour" usually means the shot was pulled too low temp. Virtually ANY
bean can be pulled as an SO espresso if the handle side of the portafilter
knows what they're doing. OTOH most don't and a blend/roast will often be
generic in nature so it'll pull a wide range of temps yet never be a stellar
shot regardless. OTOH a given bean may well pull better roasted one way for
espresso and another for vac' etc.
 
It's not necessarily or even likely the bean. It's knowing the bean and how
to roast it for a given brewing method. To attempt to roast and sell for
espresso without being a devotee of The Dark Side seems a bit absurd to me.
How else to qualify your work/roast for espresso if not by pulling,
smelling, tasting, savoring the linger! 
 
I suppose that could be one difference between hobbyist and taking it to the
professional level.
 
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/ 
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of an iconoclast
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:00 PM
I gave some Zigzag blend beans to a coworker and he said his wife enjoyed
them as drip, but they were too sour for espresso.  The blend is 1/3 Brazil
YB, 1/3 Sumatra Classic Mandheling and 1/3 Costa Rica Conquistador roasted
to FC.  I know nothing from espresso as I don't drink it.  So, I 'd like to
give him some beans appropriate for espresso and have no idea what would
that would be. 
I would appreciate some suggestions to allow him to experience an awesome
home roasted espresso.  I have about 18 varieties of caffeinated beans, so
will probably have what you recommend or close to it.  I also need to know
what roast level is best for the bean.  Really don't know anything about
espresso....I'm a sipper. 
Thanks,
Ann
-- 

3) From: Michael Dhabolt
Ann,
I concur with mike.  I've pulled shots from blends almost exactly what
you gave him, and the pulls were great.  Tell him to raise his brew
temperature up to 201 to 202.  Not knowing what equipment he is using
(and if he is using it correctly) makes it difficult to give any more
help.  The alternative is to burn some trash beans (ala *$) for him,
he'll probably love it.
Still waiting for the sick KMBs.
Mike (just plain)

4) From: an iconoclast
On Dec 11, 2007 10:24 PM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
The beans are a gift, so am trying to figure out what I might give him to
get a good espresso shot. Everyone on this list has a different brewing
method, but still offers advice on beans.  There are hundreds of brewing
options and I won't be testing all of them to make sure I am an expert on
each method. My preferred method is KMB, but will use an AP for a single
cup.  I don't have and never will have the expertise to get or offer a "God
Shot", but all I'm looking for is a bean and roast recommendation that might
offer some flexibility for the probable espresso hobbyist I'm giving the
beans to.
Thanks,
Ann
-- 
Sweet Maria's list searchable archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/index.htm

5) From: an iconoclast
On Dec 11, 2007 10:50 PM, Michael Dhabolt  wrote:
<Snip>
I'm not sure he'd take advice from me....maybe on computer hardware or
implementing clinicial practice guidelines, but not on espresso making.  I
did timidly ask him what kind of grinder he had. I prayed he didn't say
"blade grinder" and was relieved when he confirmed he had a burr grinder.
I'll give it a try. I'll tell him you and MiKe told him he's not doing it
right.
Humph! I WILL NOT burn some beans for him.
Thanks, Mike.  After the first of the year, I am going to send you those
KMBs.
Ann
-- 
Sweet Maria's list searchable archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/index.htm

6) From: Brett Mason
I think his espresso machine is poorly tweaked - probably needs to raise the
temp and work out the pressure...
B
On Dec 12, 2007 12:00 AM, an iconoclast  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

7) From: MichaelB
Ann,
What kind of espresso blend are they using now? Perhaps they don't know what
real espresso tastes like. As said already, temp too low will produce sour
shots. Make sure machine and portafilter are preheated. You might try a
SO Sumatra or any low acid SO. They may be confusing sourness with
brightness and might like a broody Sumatra as straight shot or cappuccino.
PS. Let me know if you want a volunteer to critique your zigzag blend as
espresso. In exchange I could send you some of Tom's Espresso Monkey Blend
for you to try out and compare to your blend.
On 12/12/07, an iconoclast  wrote:
<Snip>
--
MichaelB

8) From: Floyd Lozano
I wish you luck, but I don't know of any brewing method that is more complex
and so subject to so many variables as espresso.  Brazil is pretty safe for
espresso though, and seems pretty good to me through a wide range of
roasts.  There are a couple now on SM that should do pretty well.  In fact,
you should consider gifting one of the blends like Monkey or Liquid Amber,
which are very good.  But as has been said already, if the machine isn't up
to par (unstable temperature) and the barista is unskilled (doesn't know at
least the basics for espresso brewing, and there's a good guide for that on
the home barista web site), the quality of the bean isn't going to help a
lot.
On 12/12/07, an iconoclast  wrote:
<Snip>

9) From: Andy Thomas
Ann, I think what the others are trying to say in their geeky and curmudgeonly way is that your blend looks okay for espresso. Did you ask your friend what he means by "sour"? Maybe he means "bright", in which case  the Conquistador might be the problem. Maybe try leaving it out of the blend or substituting something else -- maybe a Colombian....  Just a thought.
----- Original Message ----
From: an iconoclast 
To: homeroast
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:00:12 PM
Subject: +Espresso bean recommendation
I gave some Zigzag blend beans to a coworker and he said his wife enjoyed them as drip, but they were too sour for espresso.  The blend is 1/3 Brazil YB, 1/3 Sumatra Classic Mandheling and 1/3 Costa Rica Conquistador roasted to FC.  I know nothing from espresso as I don't drink it.  So, I 'd like to give him some beans appropriate for espresso and have no idea what would that would be. 
I would appreciate some suggestions to allow him to experience an awesome home roasted espresso.  I have about 18 varieties of caffeinated beans, so will probably have what you recommend or close to it.  I also need to know what roast level is best for the bean.  Really don't know anything about espresso....I'm a sipper. 
Thanks,
Ann
-- 
Sweet Maria's list searchable archiveshttp://www.yahoo.com/r/hs">http://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/index.htmNever miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

10) From: miKe mcKoffee
Actually sour in fact would likely be the result of a bright coffee pulled
at a too low temp. While even a bright City/City+ WP Yirg' or Kenya "can" be
pulled so it sings, not usually on a run of the mill "Mall consumer"
espresso machine which really lacks much temp management capability without
going through extreme hoops like running the steam boiler to raise shot
temp. And if it's a thermoblock machine, fogettaboutit, impossible to pull
shots of anything but mundane coffees with any chance of a half way decent
cup. OTOH bright coffees can also be tamed to a degree through the roast. I
don't mean darker, extended mellowing roast segments both through tanning to
browning and especially start of 1st to end of roast.
Yes agree, the "elements" of the Zigzag blend could work for shots. However
it really depends on the roast profiles how forgiving it would be to pull. 
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/	From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Andy Thomas
	Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 7:17 PM
	To: homeroast
	Subject: Re: +Espresso bean recommendation
	
	Ann, I think what the others are trying to say in their geeky and
curmudgeonly way is that your blend looks okay for espresso. Did you ask
your friend what he means by "sour"? Maybe he means "bright", in which case
the Conquistador might be the problem. Maybe try leaving it out of the blend
or substituting something else -- maybe a Colombian....  Just a thought.
	
	----- Original Message ----
	From: an iconoclast 
	To: homeroast
	Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:00:12 PM
	Subject: +Espresso bean recommendation
	
	I gave some Zigzag blend beans to a coworker and he said his wife
enjoyed them as drip, but they were too sour for espresso.  The blend is 1/3
Brazil YB, 1/3 Sumatra Classic Mandheling and 1/3 Costa Rica Conquistador
roasted to FC.  I know nothing from espresso as I don't drink it.  So, I 'd
like to give him some beans appropriate for espresso and have no idea what
would that would be. 
	I would appreciate some suggestions to allow him to experience an
awesome home roasted espresso.  I have about 18 varieties of caffeinated
beans, so will probably have what you recommend or close to it.  I also need
to know what roast level is best for the bean.  Really don't know anything
about espresso....I'm a sipper. 
	
	Thanks,
	Ann
	-- 
	Sweet Maria's list searchable archives
http://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/index.htm	Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
Try it now.

11) From: Andy Thomas
Yes. All of which supports the point that I didn't make very clearly:  That the variables -- the possible reasons why Ann's friend wasn't satisfied -- may be other than the simple ratio of coffee origins.
----- Original Message ----
From: miKe mcKoffee 
Subject: RE: +Espresso bean recommendation
Actually sour in fact would likely be the result of a bright coffee
 pulled
at a too low temp. While even a bright City/City+ WP Yirg' or Kenya
 "can" be
pulled so it sings, not usually on a run of the mill "Mall consumer"
espresso machine which really lacks much temp management capability
 without
going through extreme hoops like running the steam boiler to raise shot
temp. And if it's a thermoblock machine, fogettaboutit, impossible to
 pull
shots of anything but mundane coffees with any chance of a half way
 decent
cup. OTOH bright coffees can also be tamed to a degree through the
 roast. I
don't mean darker, extended mellowing roast segments both through
 tanning to
browning and especially start of 1st to end of roast.
Yes agree, the "elements" of the Zigzag blend could work for shots.
 However
it really depends on the roast profiles how forgiving it would be to
 pull. 
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I
 must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal
 enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone
 before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/    From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Andy Thomas
    Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 7:17 PM
    To: homeroast
    Subject: Re: +Espresso bean recommendation
    
    Ann, I think what the others are trying to say in their geeky and
curmudgeonly way is that your blend looks okay for espresso. Did you
 ask
your friend what he means by "sour"? Maybe he means "bright", in which
 case
the Conquistador might be the problem. Maybe try leaving it out of the
 blend
or substituting something else -- maybe a Colombian....  Just a
 thought.
    
    ----- Original Message ----
    From: an iconoclast 
    To: homeroast
    Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:00:12 PM
    Subject: +Espresso bean recommendation
    
    I gave some Zigzag blend beans to a coworker and he said his wife
enjoyed them as drip, but they were too sour for espresso.  The blend
 is 1/3
Brazil YB, 1/3 Sumatra Classic Mandheling and 1/3 Costa Rica
 Conquistador
roasted to FC.  I know nothing from espresso as I don't drink it.  So,
 I 'd
like to give him some beans appropriate for espresso and have no idea
 what
would that would be. 
    I would appreciate some suggestions to allow him to experience an
awesome home roasted espresso.  I have about 18 varieties of
 caffeinated
beans, so will probably have what you recommend or close to it.  I also
 need
to know what roast level is best for the bean.  Really don't know
 anything
about espresso....I'm a sipper. 
    
    Thanks,
    Ann
    -- 
    Sweet Maria's list searchable archives
   http://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/index.htm    Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
Try it now.Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

12) From: an iconoclast
On Dec 12, 2007 9:59 PM, Andy Thomas  wrote:
<Snip>
another 1/2 pound of beans to soften the blow that it might be his technique
or equipment that is causing the problem. My 75 lbs of 6 new varieties was
delivered today, so I'm going to test 'em and pick one to give him.  I won't
see him until January, so I have some time.
Take care,
Ann
-- 
Sweet Maria's list searchable archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/index.htm

13) From: an iconoclast
On Dec 12, 2007 5:27 AM, MichaelB  wrote:
<Snip>
Thanks, Mike.
Maybe after the first of the year, I'll take you up on it.  I'm starting to
get grumpy with the holidays coming up.  I also take a deep breath when it's
over.
Take care,
Ann
-- 
Sweet Maria's list searchable archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/index.htm

14) From: Floyd Lozano
i'd suggest you couch it like this - you were reading on the interweb and
you found this incredible site on simple tips to take your espreso brewing
to the next level.  point him to the home barista site or any similar site
(the HB site sticks out as seem to recall they have a 1 or 2 pager on simple
things you have to keep in mind, golden rule, tamp, freshness, temp, grind,
clean equipment, etc).  in my experience, people hate to hear criticism from
anything other than an expert in the field (you're my friend, if i wanted
criticism, i'd go to work!).  Of course, some friendships are stronger than
others ;)
-F
On Dec 14, 2007 1:00 AM, an iconoclast  wrote:
<Snip>

15) From: an iconoclast
On Dec 14, 2007 7:25 AM, Floyd Lozano  wrote:
<Snip>
Thanks, Floyd, but he's known me for a long time as an intense information
addict who reads everything available on a particular subject.  I call them
"passions", others have their own description.  I'm going to tell him I
found a group of like-minded, intense people who say, "Increase your temp
and try it again".  He has nothing to lose as he's getting free beans.  If
he wants more details, I'll spoon feed them to him or give him the website
of HB.  I just want him to see a difference between the beans he's buying
and the beans I'm giving him to get him hooked. Then we talk about coffee
AND computer stuff.
Take care,
Ann
-- 
Sweet Maria's list searchable archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/index.htm


HomeRoast Digest