HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Fires in Behmor Was -Behmor profiles for... (24 msgs / 727 lines)
1) From: Homeroaster
I'd be a bit worried if I were Joe Behm.  All these reports of fire 
happening in a machine that specifically says not to use it outdoors.  Man, 
if someone burns his house down with one of these things...it will be a bad 
day for the Behmor.  It's not such a big deal to have a small fire, or even 
a large fire in a grill roaster, outdoors, but an indoor roaster, with a 
fire is scary.   I don't care whether the machine shuts off and contains the 
fire or not, it's scary when unexpected fire is in a home.  How many, even 
on this list in the few weeks since this thing has been released have had 
fires already?  Several.  Not a good sign.

2) From: gin
outside is a relative term..
does outside mean your garage, your patio (read it may be enclosed) or does it mean outside outside?
I really tried to set a fire in my behmor. I went outside in front of my apartment, set up a table, dropped zee behmor on it, put 1/2 pound of beans i9nto the hopper, set the machine for 1 pound as high as I could make it, pushed the plus button after a minute or so as many times as I could...
the result was a full city plus, plus spanish roast.
dark beyond my wildest dreams and NO fire.
what is fire? sparks? 
I tried it again about an hour later with a chaffy bean and did manage to have my patio breaker shut off...
no fire just some smoke.
ginny
---- Homeroaster  wrote: 
<Snip>

3) From: Rich
I don't think you can burn anything down with a Bemor fire except the 
electronics INSIDE the Behmor.  I would suggest that you carefully re 
read the posts you are basing your incorrect assumptions on.  Your panic 
peddling will insure that there will be no further discussion of over 
roasted coffee on this list.
Homeroaster wrote:
<Snip>

4) From: Homeroaster
Have you ever seen coffee beans burn?   It is a very hot, very intense, very 
smoky fire.
As for your unnecessary personal attacks, check my record on this forum back 
about ten years, I hardly use this forum for panic peddling.  You might 
actually 'consider' what I said before writing me off as some kind of 
crackpot wishing bad things on the new roaster.
There are many ways this could become a big problem, including panicky 
people who pull out burning drums or open the door, or ... whatever.
Not everyone remembers what they read in the instructions.  Not everyone 
reads the instructions.  Some may use the machine when the primary user is 
not home.  If there are already several reports of fires, and some being 
mishandled, then I'd say this might become a pretty good sized headache for 
roaster owners and for Joe Behm's new company.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

5) From: Jeff Anderson
You just quoted another poster. I would like an apology, please.
Homeroaster wrote:
<Snip>

6) From: Jeff Anderson
I guess I owe you an apology, Ed. You weren't quoting me. But for what 
it's worth, like I said before I don't know any other home roasting 
device that shuts itself off in case of fire, and I think we need to 
keep this in perspective.
Jeff
Jeff Anderson wrote:
<Snip>

7) From: Rich
If you read the manual then you will have no problems unless YOU decide 
to deviate from the instructions and warnings therein.  The failure of 
any user to RTFM and follow the instructions merely demonstrates a total 
lack of personal responsibility and common sense.  They are a candidate 
for the next rounds of the Darwin awards.
If you can not follow the instructions then don't use it.  Also remove 
all sharp objects from your home.
Yes, I have seen lots of wood burn, including coffee, so what?
Homeroaster wrote:
<Snip>

8) From: Jeff Anderson
Rich:
I am a nut about reading manuals, but I don't memorize them line by 
line, and I don't know anyone else who does. I don't have total recall, 
either.
In a moment of surprise and panic it's not unusual to react first and 
think later. It's NOT a conscious decision to "deviate for the 
instructions and warnings therein." Human error is the very reason the 
machine is so thoughtfully designed to turn itself off if it gets too 
hot to begin with.
 If you think about it, you want to "cool" a fire quickly, so it's 
counterintuitive to do anything other than hit the "cool" button. That's 
why I shared my experience. I hoped that it would be of benefit to 
everyone to be reminded that in case of fire, shut the machine off 
rather than hit the cool button.
Everything you say is correct, but IMHO the sarcasm is way out of line. 
We're humans, not machines. I think sharing experiences like this should 
be encouraged, not ridiculed with demeaning statements like that. I 
can't believe what is happening on this list over a simple suggestion 
that "in case of fire one should follow the instructions and turn the 
power off rather than hit the cool button, because the cooling cycle 
only fans the fire." WTF is going on here? Why do we have to be so nasty 
to each other???
Jeff
Rich wrote:
<Snip>

9) From: Rich
My comment was directed at Homeroaster, not you.  It was he who made the 
point that the Behmor should only be operated outdoors.  And insinuated 
that it was inherently dangerous.  I saw nothing strange or wrong with 
your original post stating that hitting cool was not actually a "cool" idea.
Any time you heat wood chips (coffee beans) to 400+ degrees you might 
have an uncontrolled oxidation event.
Jeff Anderson wrote:
<Snip>

10) From: Ken Schillinger
Dear List,
Hi, This is a newby speaking.
Enough has been said about the Behmor and the possibility of a fire that we 
all know we need to be careful.
The thing I want to point out is that this thread has deteriated to the 
point that I no longer remember who said what, and am so tired of it that I 
no longer care.  I doubt that I am alone in this.
I bought a Behmor  and am glad I did. All I want is to get back to 
discussing roasting coffee, not bickering back and forth.
Thanks for listening. Ken.

11) From: Homeroaster
"Behmor should only be operated outdoors"
I didn't make any such statement.  The device is intended only for indoor 
use, but I would feel safer using it in a garage or on a patio.
I've been homeroasting for 30+years and this is the first home roasting 
device I have ever encountered with several reports of fire 'on this list 
alone' in the first few weeks it's been out.
Trust me, coffee beans burn way differently than wood chips.
Rich, you only seem to want to argue and create heat and not light.  I will 
not respond to any more posts from you if this is the way you choose to talk 
about this topic.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

12) From: Rich
Ed, I do not agree with the conclusion you have stated.  I have copied 
it below.
The Behmor is no more prone to gross over roasting than any other device 
designed to roast coffee.
It seems to me that you have a "problem" with the Behmor.
Homeroaster wrote:
<Snip>
 > using it in a garage or on a patio.
<Snip>

13) From: Homeroaster
Bickering I can do without.  I'm not sure it is useless to continue the 
discussion, and I'm not sure it's just a matter of being careful.  If there 
is a higher probability of a fire in a Behmor roaster, and at least part of 
the problem is identified as defects in the drum, then this group might be a 
valuable place to brainstorm solutions.  Discussing a roaster pros and cons 
is well within the bounds of this group.  I'm not here to bicker.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

14) From: Rich
It seems that if there are beans falling into the chaff tray there is a 
high probability of drastically over roasting these beans - glowing 
lumps of coffee.  It also seems that a high chaff coffee will result in 
the burning of some of that chaff, overloading the smoke suppression system.
The beans falling out of the drum is a known problem with small beans 
and a broken wire is a mfg. defect.  There are words in the manual 
discouraging the dark roasting of a DP, high chaff coffee.
As soon as I consume the recent test roasts I intend to roast some DP 
Ethiopian to FC+.  This will be done indoors.  Report to follow....
Recently someone posted this method of checking for impending bean 
escape.  Load drum, insert in Behmor, close door, punch cool, let it run 
for several minutes.  This works well and solves the problem.
None of this seems to be a real defect in the Behmor.
Homeroaster wrote:
<Snip>

15) From: Aaron Scholten
ANY item can have a defect from the manufacturer... and although I think 
mr Behm is a great guy, well... another fine example of buying shit from 
china... nuff said on that ...
If the problem IS a manufacturer defect, which HAS  been identified and 
established already, then it is NOT a design flaw.  Call him, tell him 
the land down under f(@#$$%d you and gave you a bum drum,  he will give 
you a new drum and you can get off your bum and start roasting properly.
A behmor is no more likely to catch on fire than any other roaster,  and 
has plenty of fire suppression if you do manage to make it go poof...
There is a certain amount of intelligence required to use appliances 
effectively and safely,... id hope some folks can manage to find enough 
to put to use.   God the drama queens here, geez....
Aaron
========

16) From: Jeff Anderson
Rich...
You are absolutely right. Thanks for your accurate summary. I hope it 
helps put all this into perspective.
Jeff
Rich wrote:
<Snip>

17) From: Rich
Thanks Jeff... I find the Behmor one of the better home appliances that 
I have purchased and consider it to return a very high value for the 
dollar spent.
Jeff Anderson wrote:
<Snip>

18) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
<Snip>
I agree Ed, this is a good topic and we should stop the bickering and 
just discuss it. That said, I think the Behmor safety issue is going 
to rarely going to be linked to malfunction. There have been some 
cases of dented chaff screens,  incomplte drum mesh (a hole) and a 
wire extending past the drum. All these 3 things can result in the 
drum getting physically stuck and that can be a danger. But if 
everyone follows the one ultra-highlighted pointer on our tip sheet 
(load the drum with care, make sure it is loaded right, then WATCH it 
turn freely after you start the roast) then these defects would be 
caught immediately with no danger to person, or coffee! These little 
qc problems are eat at joe but he deals with things asap, and is very 
responsive, replacing parts or roasters quickly. The defect rate has 
been calculated at 1.8% which is much less than the 3% industry 
standard, and the fact we are in the first run of the roaster, I 
think this is very good. I also want to add that vacuuming out the 
roaster is a very good habit. We found that chaff was getting into 
the body, and I think we are going to come up with cleaning 
procedure, to pull off a couple panels and vac it out, every 2-3 
months. the self-cleaning every 5 roasts helps too.
Lets continue to argue these things here, like respectful people!
Tom
--
                   "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
            Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting  -  Tom & Maria
                      http://www.sweetmarias.com                Thompson Owen george_at_sweetmarias.com
     Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
             phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom_at_sweetmarias.com

19) From: Dave Ehrenkranz
I recently bought a Black & Decker cordless 18 volt Hand Vac from  
Sears to vacuum the insides of my Behmor. It works great. I paid more  
than I wanted to and got a more powerful vacuum than I needed but  It  
can also be used to do other jobs around the house and is much more  
convenient than using either the shop vac or a regular vacuum cleaner.
Bottom line it is now very easy to vacuum the chaff from my unit and  
clean up around my roasting area.
dave
On Dec 13, 2007, at 5:58 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee wrote:
<Snip>

20) From: Jeff Anderson
It's not a Black and Decker, but I bought a hand vac to use with the 
Behmor, too. It's one of the best small investments I've made lately. It 
makes cleanup a breeze.
Jeff
Dave Ehrenkranz wrote:
<Snip>

21) From: Ken Schillinger
I have and use  my Behmor in my shop, which is in an outbuilding. I keep a 
vacuum cleaner stationed at the location where I roast. It makes it so quick 
and easy to keep the machine clean.
Ken.
Who is planning on giving my one daughter and son in law as well as my 
sister in law coffee for Christmas.

22) From: eric estes
I was wondering about the chaff getting into the "guts" of the Behmor, a pr=
ocedure for checking that would be a good thing.  But would there be an iss=
ue of voiding the warranty if we open them up?  
 
I also had a small chaff fire in mine when roasting the tree dried natural,=
 but i resisted the first urge to open it up and it burned out very quickly=
 with no damage to the roaster.  So it's back to the trusty IR2 for that co=
ffee.
<Snip>
ubject: Re: +Fires in Behmor Was -Behmor profiles for...> Date: Thu, 13 Dec=
 2007 17:58:11 -0800> > >Bickering I can do without. I'm not sure it is use=
less to continue > >the discussion, and I'm not sure it's just a matter of =
being > >careful. If there is a higher probability of a fire in a Behmor > =
<Snip>
he drum, then this group might be a valuable place to brainstorm > >solutio=
ns. Discussing a roaster pros and cons is well within the > >bounds of this=
 group. I'm not here to bicker.> >*********************> >Ed Needham> >"to =
absurdity and beyond!"> >http://www.homeroaster.com>>*********************=
<Snip>
 just discuss it. That said, I think the Behmor safety issue is going > to =
rarely going to be linked to malfunction. There have been some > cases of d=
ented chaff screens, incomplte drum mesh (a hole) and a > wire extending pa=
st the drum. All these 3 things can result in the > drum getting physically=
 stuck and that can be a danger. But if > everyone follows the one ultra-hi=
ghlighted pointer on our tip sheet > (load the drum with care, make sure it=
 is loaded right, then WATCH it > turn freely after you start the roast) th=
en these defects would be > caught immediately with no danger to person, or=
 coffee! These little > qc problems are eat at joe but he deals with things=
 asap, and is very > responsive, replacing parts or roasters quickly. The d=
efect rate has > been calculated at 1.8% which is much less than the 3% ind=
ustry > standard, and the fact we are in the first run of the roaster, I > =
think this is very good. I also want to add that vacuuming out the > roaste=
r is a very good habit. We found that chaff was getting into > the body, an=
d I think we are going to come up with cleaning > procedure, to pull off a =
couple panels and vac it out, every 2-3 > months. the self-cleaning every 5=
 roasts helps too.> > Lets continue to argue these things here, like respec=
tful people!> > Tom> -- >=> "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"> Sweet=
 Maria's Home Coffee Roasting - Tom & Maria>http://www.sweetmarias.com>Th=
ompson Owen george_at_sweetmarias.com>=> Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st =
Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA> phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom_at_sweetmari=
as.com>> homeroast mailing =
list>http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast>To change yo=
ur personal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to h=
ttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings
iím is proud to present Cause Effect, a series about real people making a=
 difference.http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_Cause_Effect=

23) From: gin
I think I will roast chaff today and see what happens. I will be roasting s=
everal pounds for 
friends, yes I have some, maybe I will save the chaff and re roast it...
info posted later,
ginny
---- eric estes  wrote: 
<Snip>
procedure for checking that would be a good thing.  But would there be an i=
ssue of voiding the warranty if we open them up?  
<Snip>
l, but i resisted the first urge to open it up and it burned out very quick=
ly with no damage to the roaster.  So it's back to the trusty IR2 for that =
coffee.
<Snip>
 Subject: Re: +Fires in Behmor Was -Behmor profiles for...> Date: Thu, 13 D=
ec 2007 17:58:11 -0800> > >Bickering I can do without. I'm not sure it is u=
seless to continue > >the discussion, and I'm not sure it's just a matter o=
f being > >careful. If there is a higher probability of a fire in a Behmor =
<Snip>
 the drum, then this group might be a valuable place to brainstorm > >solut=
ions. Discussing a roaster pros and cons is well within the > >bounds of th=
is group. I'm not here to bicker.> >*********************> >Ed Needham> >"t=
o absurdity and beyond!"> >http://www.homeroaster.com>>*******************=
**> > I agree Ed, this is a good topic and we should stop the bickering and=
 > just discuss it. That said, I think the Behmor safety issue is going > t=
o rarely going to be linked to malfunction. There have been some > cases of=
 dented chaff screens, incomplte drum mesh (a hole) and a > wire extending =
past the drum. All these 3 things can result in the > drum getting physical=
ly stuck and that can be a danger. But if > everyone follows the one ultra-=
highlighted pointer on our tip sheet > (load the drum with care, make sure =
it is loaded right, then WATCH it > turn freely after you start the roast) =
then these defects would be > caught immediately with no danger to person, =
or coffee! These little > qc problems are eat at joe but he deals with thin=
gs asap, and is very > responsive, replacing parts or roasters quickly. The=
 defect rate has > been calculated at 1.8% which is much less than the 3% i=
ndustry > standard, and the fact we are in the first run of the roaster, I =
<Snip>
ter is a very good habit. We found that chaff was getting into > the body, =
and I think we are going to come up with cleaning > procedure, to pull off =
a couple panels and vac it out, every 2-3 > months. the self-cleaning every=
 5 roasts helps too.> > Lets continue to argue these things here, like resp=
ectful people!> > Tom> -- >=> "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"> Swe=
et Maria's Home Coffee Roasting - Tom & Maria>http://www.sweetmarias.com>=
Thompson Owen george_at_sweetmarias.com>=> Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21s=
t Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA> phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom_at_sweetma=
rias.com>> homeroast mailin=
g list>http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast>To change =
your personal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to=
http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>
making a difference.
<Snip>

24) From: Sandra Andina
--Apple-Mail-10-301280274
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Run a cool cycle or two and brush out the machine's interior BEFORE  
you roast any small or irregularly sized beans so that anything that's  
going to fall out and burn falls out and can be dumped before it gets  
a chance to burn. Save those beans and fragments for an open method  
like wok or heatgun.
Sandy
On Dec 13, 2007, at 2:08 PM, Rich wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
--Apple-Mail-10-301280274
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	charset-ASCII
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Run a cool cycle or two and =
brush out the machine's interior BEFORE you roast any small or =
irregularly sized beans so that anything that's going to fall out and =
burn falls out and can be dumped before it gets a chance to burn. Save =
those beans and fragments for an open method like wok or =
heatgun.Sandy
On Dec 13, 2007, at 2:08 PM, Rich =
wrote:
I don't think you can burn anything down with a Bemor fire = except the electronics INSIDE the Behmor.  I would suggest that you = carefully re read the posts you are basing your incorrect assumptions = on.  Your panic peddling will insure that there will be no further = discussion of over roasted coffee on this list. Homeroaster = wrote: I'd be a bit worried if I were Joe = Behm.  All these reports of fire happening in a machine that = specifically says not to use it outdoors.  Man, if someone burns = his house down with one of these things...it will be a bad day for the = Behmor.  It's not such a big deal to have a small fire, or even a = large fire in a grill roaster, outdoors, but an indoor roaster, with a = fire is scary.   I don't care whether the machine shuts off = and contains the fire or not, it's scary when unexpected fire is in a = home.  How many, even on this list in the few weeks since this = thing has been released have had fires already?  Several.  Not = a good sign. ----- Original = Message ----- From: "Marty Wooten" <martywooten>= ; To: <homeroast= s.com> Sent: Wednesday, = December 12, 2007 5:57 PM Subject: Re: +Behmor profiles for Tree Dried = Natural?? Jeff, That is very good to hear. I = appreciate the detail you = provided. Marty ----- Original Message = ---- From: Jeff Anderson <jeff221> To: homeroast= s.com Sent: Wednesday, December 12, = 2007 5:47:27 PM Subject: Re: +Behmor profiles = for Tree Dried Natural?? Marty... It happened with my very first = roast. There was a manufacturing defect in the drum which allowed a = small pile of beans to build up on one side. When they caught fire they = looked like a charcoal briquette burning. There were no flames, but = obviously very hot. I hit the cool button and a huge amount of smoke = appeared. I turned it off (hit the power button) and the fire went out = almost immediately. I contacted Joe, and he assured me the roaster is = OK. He told me to do a cleaning cycle and I'd be good to go. I've done a = dozen or so roasts since with no problems whatsoever. I'm not a very = technical person, but in very basic terms I think there is a very = effective fail safe system which protects the electrical components from = damage, provided you respond = quickly. The many cautions about letting = the roasts go too far are very appropriate. Beans make a VERY hot fire. = In this case there was a very small amount, half a handful at most (and = a small hand at that). Left unattended I hate to think what could happen = very quickly if just a quarter pound caught fire. But as long as you = attend the roast, especially near the end, and in case of fire respond = appropriately (power down and unplug the unit), there appears to be = little danger, even of damaging the roaster. That impressed me. A lot of = thought and excellent engineering went into the = design. Jeff Marty Wooten = wrote: Jeff Thank you for sharing your = experience. Have you tried another roast since the fire, turning off and = unplugging? If so, did everything work = well? Not that I hope to repeat your experience, but knowing too = well it is all possible ;o) Marty homeroast = mailing list http://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast To change your = personal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to = http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings = homeroast mailing = list http://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast To change your personal list settings (digest = options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings= homeroast mailing = list http://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast To change your = personal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to =http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings= Sandy Andinawww.myspace.com/sandyandina = --Apple-Mail-10-301280274--


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