I found them in the meat department in the local supermarket just last night. They were fed to my dogs, raw. Dogs benefit more from raw meat and bone versus cooked. The wolf, being their direct ancestor, never cooked their kills around a campfire.http://rawfeddogs.net/Respectfully,">http://www.rawmeatybones.com/http://rawlearning.com/http://rawfeddogs.net/Respectfully, Rich Adams
I actually tried this for a short time with my dogs. They didn't mind eating raw, although it did gross me out. I did notice that Sammy didn't do well, particularly, on raw. Now he absolutely loves when I bring home raw bones from the market (I snapped a photo of him when he gathered all the bones I had given the other two dogs, in a pile in front of him), but he burped all the time - wasn't digesting it very well. (Actually, for humans I think a raw veggie diet is great, healthwise - but it's very difficult to follow.) The other concern I have is the quality of meat available today. In my one & one culinary class that I had, we were told to consider that ALL chicken has salmonella today. Forget beef - I can't afford it anyway. (Yah think that'd be enough to have me swear off of meat entirely - well, I don't eat very much of it...) I will read up some more on it through the links you gave, though. Since we are going way off topic, feel free to email me privately, if you'd like. Lynne still watching Sammy *[with occasional uncontrollable freaking-out worry] * On Dec 18, 2007 2:13 PM, Rich Adams wrote: <Snip>
Lynne: you cut up meat before you cook it@@!! sammy loves raw bones sure, what dog or vampire does not!!?? there is no difference between tossing some raw chicken, beef or whatever (read your dogs most likely eat the local mice/birds they can get their fangs on) into a plate then that garbage "dog food" that is full of the stuff even your cats will not eat. Whatever they cannot sell to ANYONE goes into the dog food you pay way too much for... we have local (all over the US) senior citizens eating dog and cat food because they cannot afford "real" food... if you buy wisely you can afford to eat whatever you want and have some left for a pooch or senior... ginny ---- Lynne wrote: <Snip>
Actually, I haven't purchased any dog food for a long time. I started out with homemade food - listening to the vet back then almost killed my oldest dog. I tried raw, but it was very, very expensive (there are cheaper options around here, so I might try it again) for me. Frankly, I know that the brown rice I give them isn't natural to their diet - but just like in the wild, this is survival here. I even had to cut back on the amt I give them. My family thought I was nuts to give them human food - until the last fiasco with pet foods (I know we talked about this on this list before, and some list members actually lost some of their pets because of this - my heart goes out to all of them...) They changed their minds when all of that happened. Lynne On Dec 18, 2007 4:08 PM, gin wrote: <Snip>
every one forgets how little it costs for a few pounds of regular rice and dry beans two of the three sisters. with a bit of bacon fat it is really good too. gin wrote: <Snip>
Animal-Lovin' Listers, Please read up on pancreatitis. Too much high-fat 'human food' can contribute to this in dogs and cats. This year my dog (11 y.o. female Jack Russell Terrier mix) had an attack of Acute Pancreatitis (more dangerous than Chronic Pancreatitis). It was very scary and she was very sick. It can be fatal. She simply had access to too much human food over the few weeks leading up to the attack (scavenging at a picnic, spoiled by the whole family, including myself). She was not overweight (perhaps slightly) or otherwise unhealthy in any way, but she had an attack just the same. The vet cited too much human food as the most likely cause. Total cost to treat for this was around $1,000, which of course was worth every penny to save my little one. That said, I'd certainly recommend low-fat meats if you must do the 'human-food' thing, particularly if you have a Schnauzer, which as a breed is predisposed to pancreatitis. Also, scratch them behind their ears. That's good for them too. Happy Holidays, TO in VA On Dec 19, 2007 1:17 AM, John Brown wrote: <Snip>
<Snip> this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Hello everyone I have stayed out of this as it can explode into a very big flame war. As the owner of a Dog type list I can tell you its not a subject I like to see come up. Too many extreme people out there. However there is one middle of the road person who comes at her information from the place of science. She has written 2 books which we read on my site. You can also read her site and join her list long enough to ask your questions or read the archives. Monica Segalhttp://www.monicasegal.com/http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/K9Kitchen/ We have also had other authors on over the last 6 years but to follow those you really need to spend a lot of time going through the information as it relates to you and your family. As for my crew I have fed mostly raw for 27 years BUT there other ways to feed. Look Monica up, she understands the different breeds and the different diets. Treshell
Tom, I can really relate to your dog feeding problems. I have a Dalmation that was really my daughter's which I inherited when she moved out. He is 8 or 9 yrs old now? Can't remember for sure. Anyway, last year I almost lost him. He started acting different one day (could not pee), no matter how much he tried. Because I work all day, I really did not notice/put it together for about 1 1/2 to two days. Then I decided to take him to the vet. Well, just in that short of a time period 2 days, maybe, he alsmost died. The vet operated on him after a quick exam/few tests, and $2500 later.., well, I still have him, but he almost did not make it. He had "crystals" in his bladder (which I learned is fairly common for Dalmations). Unrelated, he also goes into a sort of "seizure" where he can not move for several minutes and just "shakes". Anyway, he is on a strict diet (about $38 for 16 lbs of dog food every 2-3 weeks...ouch!). The problem is, he does sneek bites from my other dog's food (not good), sometimes steals food from the kitchen cabinet that is too close to the edge (last night, a piece of wife's cake came up missing--she almost accused me (wasn't me)). So, feel your pain. A quick word or two on pit bulls. I have a, just turned two year old, pit bull-rottweiler mix. Wonderful dog, so far (still acts like a big puppy, which he is). He shows no meaness at all, again so far, and wants to play all the time. Both dogs are "house" dogs and are our "grand-dogs" since we have no grand-children (still hoping one of these days, though:>)) and are treated likewise. Well, enough rambling. On 12/19/07, Tom Ogren wrote: <Snip> -- Frank "Still the one"
I have two Dalmatians. (spelled with an 'a', not an 'o') One seizes and the switch to raw has almost stopped these, the frequency has cut down dramatically. http://internet.cybermesa.com/~dalcrazy/Emma.html) Please read the entries dated 7/18/2000 and 7/27/2000. This lady had a Dal that was seizing like clockwork after the morning meal, the switch to raw practically stopped it. She is well known in the raw/epi/Dal world. For the price of that "special" dog food, you can devise a very healthy raw feeding regimen and may just cure her of seizures. Seizures are nothing to sneeze at, if they seize for too long they will suffer brain damage and your dog will no longer be the same. Also, cooked fats are the cause of pancreatitis in dogs, not raw fats. When we say human food we usually mean cooked. As a side note. Many folks are not aware that the Pet Food industry financially backs the "studies" on their own dog food. If vets/students decide to take a canine nutrition course it is taught by Science Diet reps. What do vets sell out of their office? Science Diet. I am sure any one of us would balk if our pediatrician had a plaque on the wall from Kellogg's and they told us that a Kellogg's breakfast bar was all our child needed to thrive AND they had it on hand to sell to us. But yet so many believe that commercial dog food is good for your dog because of all the tests being done on it. Tests that are paid for by the same people who make it. The whole thing stinks. The web is full of this info. A simple search on 'what goes into dogfood' will yield results that alone would make you want to switch to something else. Sorry for the rant. Respectfully, Rich Adams
Rich: Thanks for your post. I am really amazed that any dog owner does not understand the difference between a RAW diet for your dog and "table scraps." Human food seems to mean what you cook for dinner, NOT. A raw diet for a dog is simply raw and fresh; raw meat on or off the hoof is what our dogs need as well as raw eggs, veggies... My 110 pounder caught a rabbit the other day, sat behind a tree and ate it... he did not want any food the next morning because he was full. The meat, fat and bones were all he needed! ginny ---- Rich Adams wrote: <Snip>
I remember from my 1st biochem course (in 1962) that Dalmatians are different. My text book from way back then says "In man and other primates and the Dalmatian dog, purine metabolism largely stops with uric acid, which is then excreted in the urine". So Dalmatians may have urinary problems from a diet too high in purines (i.e. a high protein diet). There's lots of literature on the metabolic differences of Dalmatians vs. other breeds. Dave Westerville, OH On 12/20/07, Rich Adams wrote: <Snip>
Frank - I need to add some about this subject, too. My oldest dog, Shiloh (a rescue mix - we have no idea his genetics, of course) had a similar problem a few yrs ago, right before we were headed to move back to Boston from Tucson. In fact, we almost lost him. My daughter was working for this vet & I give her the credit for pursuing a conference with a specialist in the area. They basically said the same thing - there were crystals in his bladder, and put him on that Hill's special diet w/antibiotics (I later learned that he should have had a longer treatment with the antibiotics - we came across the country & had a new vet - he eventually prescribed more.) Anyway, he started to improve - then got a LOT worse. I kept him on that food for NEARLY a year, only because I was told that if I didn't, he could die. Well, when I finally read the label, and saw that it was mainly corn (isn't that a strong allergen for dogs???), I decided to take things into my own hands. I *did*try raw, with the advice of some people in some raw groups, but he didn't improve. I finally went back to cooking his food (that's what I did when he was a pup), and he improved & is still living today. I rarely let my dogs have any so-called treats, except for a raw carrot or raw bone, once in a while. When I buy over the counter dog treats, he just barfed them up - that was a sign right then & there. Rich is totally right about how the pet food companies bribe their students. It's horrendous. When Emma started having seizures, Angel Memorial wanted me to put *her *on the same. After I told them that there was NO way I could afford that food, they said, "oh - well then just feed her chicken and rice.." That was after her second seizure episode - which came on right after I fed her kibble (so-called alternative type). I don't agree that raw is the only answer (two of my dogs didn't do well on raw), but be very careful with using that dog food long term. It almost killed my dog. Lynne
"I think a raw veggie diet is great, healthwise - but" One of my favorite vegetables is kind of expensive here: Johnny Walker Black Label. At the Coconut Grove on Clark Airbase, it was $6.50/L. I was almost a vegetarian between San Miguel and Black Jack. Very good raw. Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa! On Dec 18, 2007 2:08 PM, gin wrote: <Snip> -- "When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976
Lynne, the vet put our Dalmatian (no "O" this time) on a diet food called Urinary SO 13. I'm on vacation now, so can't remember the maker of it (has to do with Canada or something it seems). I just bought some to leave with him at the kennel, I think I paid around $30.00 (not $38) or so plus $5 for some treats for him. He eats any and everything he can get. The vet said that now since he has already had this problem once, he would be more susceptible to get it next time. I don't think the wife is willing to spend that kind of money on him a second time (although she would on her dog--the pb/rott mix). On Dec 20, 2007 10:55 AM, Lynne wrote: <Snip> -- Frank "Still the one"
RAW RULES ginny ---- Rich Adams wrote: <Snip>