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Topic: Measuring Bean Temperature in a Drum (was +sour coffee) (9 msgs / 245 lines)
1) From: raymanowen
"...literature that specifies internal bean temps for a give degree of
roast."
They're Stark, raving Mad. Such a specification would be impossible to
standardize or even accomplish once, let alone repeat.
It has never been done. Was this literature in circulation at the library or
a little room there?
For roasting, a temperature that is easy to read, easily repeatable, stable
and closely tracks the degree of roast is necessary.
The Internal Bean Temperature farce fails 75% of those standards.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
With so many comedians out of work right now...

2) From: Bob Hazen
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Well....  Here's one place:  =http://www.sweetmarias.com/roasted.pict-guide.html(grin)
Bob

3) From: raymanowen
Lacking any description of the equipment or methodology used or any means to
verify the precision of the numbers cited using alternative processes, I
question any statements made or numbers cited.
No external sensor can measure the internal temperature of a bean. Roasting
beans have enormous temperature gradients from the surface to the center.
Beans in the same batch are all different, so 1st Crack isn't a 120dB *BOOM*.
With that in mind, when the phrase "Internal Bean Temperature" is bandied
about, Smart Money asks, "Where, Internal?"
There are temperature gradients, the roasting bean is not homogenious, and
it's an Old Wive's Tale. External sensors are a fraud.
A sensor installed within the bean would totally alter the physical and
thermodynamic properties of the bean, and the instrumented bean could only
be used once. Fancy that you'd be reading the only bastard bean among
thousands in the drum.
Back to the drawing board- Otherwise, roasting wouldn't be an Art, and any 6
week old Orangutan with a stopwatch could do it. Let's see how that gets
spun.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
The Emperor has No Clothes.

4) From: raymanowen
"...that's how new things are invented!!"
A method or device for measuring the Internal Bean Temperature Will
absolutely be a New Invention, subject to patent and registration. It's a
neat dream but does not currently exist.
The physical bean has dimension, just like this third rock out from the sun
has dimension. How would you measure Earth's Internal temperature? The same
way the bean would be instrumented.
Good joke. The finest thermocouple you could place in a bean would require
perhaps a 0.050" drilled hole, about 0.125" deep in the 0.250" dia bean.
Ignore the fact that the t/c would absorb or sink heat to the environment
like a skewer.
On the scale of the Earth, the thermocouple would require a hole 1,600 miles
in diameter and 4,000 miles deep. Or, more than 8 billion cubic miles
displaced. That leaves me an equitable 1.3 cubic miles to remove. I'll get
the top, thank you, and I'll call you when I'm done with mine. That ought to
be easy- my cubic mile ought to skim the top few mm of the 1,600mi diameter
hole. Me First!
Just one more thing- where do you want me to put the overburden I dig out?
No fair changing your mind at the 4 billion cubic mile mark.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
On Dec 23, 2007 5:41 AM, Aaron < beerbong> wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976

5) From: Aaron
Well you can always put the overburden at the poles.  I mean, they are 
already melting from global warming if you listen to owl bore and his 
kronies,  what's a few more billion tons of 'dirt' to absorb sunlight 
and hasten the process.  screw the penguins and polar bears anyways.
Oh and... why do you think the probe diameter has to be to a scale of 
bean size .vs. the earths size?  Hell a normal thermocouple even 1/4 
inch in diameter if sunk properly would still read the temperature of 
the earths core. But if what I read is correct, it'd probably have to be 
a PGM to stand the heat, so there goes your christmas bonus on buying 
that.  but on the bright side...you can greatly reduce your 'carbon 
footprint' on the earth with your overburden this way... instead of 
covering a continent or two with your diggin's  you can probably get 
away with merely just a state or two... Id be happy to name a few that 
immediately come to mind.
now SEE how easy that is, our beans and us are greener in this 
endeavor.....   excuse me while I go hug myself and feel good about it.
aaron

6) From: JoAnne Phillips
Aaron,
Thanks for the grin, I think that definitely should have had a spew  
alert posted though.
JoAnne in Tucson
On Dec 23, 2007, at 6:52 PM, Aaron wrote:
Well you can always put the overburden at the poles.  I mean, they  
are already melting from global warming if you listen to owl bore and  
his kronies,  what's a few more billion tons of 'dirt' to absorb  
sunlight and hasten the process.  screw the penguins and polar bears  
anyways.
Oh and... why do you think the probe diameter has to be to a scale of  
bean size .vs. the earths size?  Hell a normal thermocouple even 1/4  
inch in diameter if sunk properly would still read the temperature of  
the earths core. But if what I read is correct, it'd probably have to  
be a PGM to stand the heat, so there goes your christmas bonus on  
buying that.  but on the bright side...you can greatly reduce your  
'carbon footprint' on the earth with your overburden this way...  
instead of covering a continent or two with your diggin's  you can  
probably get away with merely just a state or two... Id be happy to  
name a few that immediately come to mind.
now SEE how easy that is, our beans and us are greener in this  
endeavor.....   excuse me while I go hug myself and feel good about it.
aaron

7) From: Eddie Dove
Gotta be careful though ...
Creating a big void here, making big piles there, ramming things over
there ... I'm envisioning a gyroscopic effect that might change the
tilt of things.  Some species going extinct, weeping and gnashing of
teeth, babies crying ...
Prior planning ... things could get out of control ...
Eddie
On Dec 23, 2007 7:52 PM, Aaron  wrote:
<Snip>

8) From: Homeroaster
One thing I learned in physics class was that you alter the experiment any 
time you choose to measure it.  Some of the 'weird' physics even says the 
subject is altered just by looking at it!
If a bean temp sensor can give a 'reliable' reading that 'predicts' events, 
then the temperature sensor can be beneficial, even if it is not giving an 
accurate representation of the bean temperature.
I think it would be 119db rather than 120db if they all fired at once.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

9) From: Ross
Personally, I think someone should make an instrumented bean,  color it red, 
so I don't ruin my Rocky and I will buy one.  As for the hole to take the 
Earth's core temp probe, maybe it would take care of Al's oceans that rise 
20 feet, or did he glance at the globe and revise that.   
Ross


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