HomeRoast Digest

Topic: What happens to water sitting in a commercial pourover (19 msgs / 400 lines)
1) From: Edward Bourgeois
I hear  negatives about water sitting(unlike a commercial setting with
continuous use) in a commercial pourover being used in a home. Ed N.
just described it as "flat and lifeless". I'm not sure how many life
forms I want in my water. I can see that there might be a bit of
metallic transfer and not sure how much. What are the negatives to
water sitting in a pourover?

2) From: Patrick R. Sklenar
Edward Bourgeois wrote:
I usually brew a pot a day.  I've been using it for a year now (received 
it Christmas 2006).  I've *not* noticed a significant taste difference 
compared to my Chemex pour-over with the same grind. 
I DO detect a slight difference compared to my vintage Cory Vacuum 
brewer, but I use a coarser grind in the Cory and the coffee & grounds 
are being actively agitated for 3-4 minutes which is definitely 
different than a pour-over - manual or machine.  And volume may have an 
impact too ... even if I fill it to the "eight cup mark", the cup sizes 
must have been smaller in the 1940s because it yields less than 1/2 of 
what my 12 cup VP17 does.
The *only* worry I have about the Bunn is what will happen when I go out 
of town for a week or more at a time.  That's not happened yet, so I 
haven't had to address it yet. :)

3) From: Gregg Talton
Make sure to turn it off if you are out of town for more than a day or the
water from the tank will evaporate.
Gregg T
On Dec 26, 2007 1:44 PM, Patrick R. Sklenar  wrote:
They say such nice things about people at their funerals that it makes me
sad to realize that I'm going to miss mine by just a few days. - Garrison

4) From: raymanowen
"What are the negatives to water sitting in a pourover?"
You haven't brewed yet.
All water is waiting to be used, to progress to the next stop in the water
cycle. Just think, your "fresh" water could have been in an Edsel radiator,
50 Years ago- or it could have propelled a steam locomotive before that.
Next, it'll probably snow on Chicago.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
What's in your cuppa?
On Dec 26, 2007 11:22 AM, Edward Bourgeois  wrote:

5) From: Rich Adams
Isn't it the lack of oxygen?  Isn't that the reason most brewing 
instructions whether it be tea or coffee state to start with fresh cold tap 
water?  Or is it the lead in old pipe solder?  I read on alt.coffee to 
vigorously boil water, let cool and taste side by side with fresh cold tap. 
Supposedly there's a difference you can taste/feel.  Never tried it myself 
but I don't use water that's been heated for hours/days for coffee or for 
cooking for that matter.
One solution is you can brew a blank pot, and make coffee with the next 
batch of heated water.  Sort of like how my co-workers use the Keurig 
machine (a machine I stay away from) after a weekend, they use the hot water 
spigot to dump the water first and let it refill before brewing. 
Personally, I'm not sure that improves the Keurig brew but to each his own.
Rich Adams

6) From: Vicki Smith
I'd always been told that hot water pipes get nasty as compared to cold 
water pipes, and that was the reason for the cold part of the instructions.
Rich Adams wrote:

7) From: RK
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
the water from the tank will evaporate.  
You can then pour 2 pots of water thru the bunn and it will flush out =
the old stale water.
I pour 1 pot thru each morning before I go to work for my wife as she =
uses the bunn so the water stay pretty good 

8) From: Edward Bourgeois
Hot water systems fall below 160* so I can see how it is possible for
them to get a bit nasty
On Dec 26, 2007 6:16 PM, RK  wrote:

9) From: raymanowen
"...brewing instructions whether it be tea or coffee state to start with
fresh cold tap water?"
They have to state something specific like that, so the intrepid brewer
won't dump dreckig coffee in it, expecting the machine to resurrect it.
(They do, anyway...)
Whatever cold water you dump in has to be heated to brewing temperature. It
makes nil difference to the coffee if you dump fresh ice water in it, or
fresh warm water.
A percolator stops reheating and recycling brewed coffee once the
temperature limit is attained. It will always brew differently, depending on
the water temperature at the start.
The distilled water you purchase has been sitting in a glass jar degassed if
it's chem lab standard. If there's anything, including air gasses, dissolved
in it it's no longer pure enough for laboratory use.
Hot water dissolves the essences of coffee from the grounds. Water is an
excellent solvent. "Pure" tap water has been made pure enough* (What's
this?) for human consumption.
*It's BS- the water treatment plant oxygenates and poisons the water. Just
enough to kill the preponderance of Bad Bugs, but not so much it sickens
many of their clientele. You were laboring with the error that Chlorine and
Fluoride salts were not poisons?
They're not very pleasant flavorings, let me tell you. If that's your
picture of pure, whoa! The Bodies of the Dead Bad Bugs (BDBB) just add to
the miasma of flotsam and jetsam issuing from your faucet. Again, not enough
to sicken more than a statistical number of the population. Minimizes legal
costs, turns coffee to...
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
What's in your cuppa?
On Dec 26, 2007 3:49 PM, Rich Adams  wrote:

10) From: Homeroaster
Without pulling out charts and graphs...water that is boiled will, over time 
release more of the free oxygen molecules and will take on a flatter, less 
lively feel, and may react differently when brewing coffee.
I'm sure it also picks up flavor from the layers of scale that are inside 
the boiler.
See here what I dislodged from the inside of one of the Bunns I had...http://www.homeroaster.com/Scale24.JPGYummy
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

11) From: Homeroaster
You 'must' turn it off if you go away for more than a couple days.  It will 
boil dry.  There's a switch on the side to turn it off.  At least there was 
on mine.
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

12) From: Homeroaster
Nothing like sanitized nasties in our water.  I have three whole house water 
filters in series for the cold water in my kitchen, including tap, ice, and 
plumbed-in espresso machine.  I'm always amazed at how the filters look and 
feel after three or four months.  I'm glad the filters are doing their job, 
and my drinking water tastes great, but I'm still a bit queasy about all my 
drinking water filtering through that nasty stuff each time.
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

13) From: Patrick R. Sklenar
Homeroaster wrote:
I haven't opened up the unit, but it seemed to me that there must be 
SOME way to safely drain the unit for long term non-use and that's why I 
keep meaning to contact Bunn.
As for the large debris you somehow got out of an old Bunn, considering 
the size, i would say that you somehow DID open the boiler toget that 
out. :)  In my case, I use the spring descaler weekly and flush one to 
three pots of fresh water through before brewing if I end up not brewing 
a pot every day for some reason.  As I mentioned earlier in this thread, 
I've not noticed any difference in taste between coffee brewed by my 
Bunn and that in my Chemex.  Both just taste darn good to me (well, 
excpet for  the couple of roasts I really screwed up, but it's been a 
while since i did that.;) ).
As I said to Jared, I like the TV's and intended to buy one before I was 
gifted with this VP17.  However, now that I have it and have used it ... 
I'm thrilled with it and have no desire to change.  But that's just me.

14) From: RK
SOME way to safely drain the unit for long term non-use and that's why I 
keep meaning to contact Bunn.
Just turn it upside down in the sink and it will drain fairly well.

15) From: Rich
When water is heated, all of the dissolved gases leave the water BEFORE 
it starts to boil at 212 degrees.  This degassing happens around 160 to 
170 degrees.  Depending on the gases present, this might be a good 
thing.  Sulfur dioxide and chlorine do not taste or smell good.
Homeroaster wrote:

16) From: Rich
I have a Bunn VPR and to drain it or the smaller consumer units I just 
unplug them and then turn them upside down over the sink.  De-scaling 
/de-liming is done by filling the cooled heating tank with CLR or a 
generic substitute.  Let sit for several hours and upend over sink then 
flush.  Does flush clear?  If so then done and if not repeat CLR soak. 
I have had this machine since 1997 and it has been powered up 
continuously except for maintenance. It is also used with soft water.
Patrick R. Sklenar wrote:

17) From: Homeroaster
I can't argue with your experience, but I wonder if you could tell the 
difference if you did a little experiment and brewed and tasted them side by 
side?  Same strength, same temperature, fresh brewed.
My experience is that the Bunn makes a very drinkable cup of coffee, but 
compared to the Chemex brew (or Melitta manual pourover), it is severely 
lacking in depth and complexity.  The Chemex will bring out flavors that I 
don't get with any other method.  The downside is that if a coffee has a 
fault, then it also enhances that flavor!  A French Press or press pot will 
extract all the goodies from a brew too, but I'm not fond of all the messy 
work needed to keep it clean.  Chemex has been my friend for over 30 years.
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

18) From: Ross
I have read a lot of hype for the Technovorian on this list and realize the 
Technovorian has reached a degree of cult status here that can't be 
challenged.  Just thought I would throw out my experience with the Bunn for 
what it's worth.
As for stale water and dissolved metal, yes it can happen in your pot or in 
your pipes.  I fill the Bunn with the same filtered water I use in the 
Silvia or other coffee machines and make about 3 to 4 pots a day.  Vacation 
is a good time to clean the Bunn.  There is also a switch to turn off the 
boiler and it's easy to run a few blanks to refresh the water supply.  I 
have tested the Bunn against the Chemex and the Melitta filtered pourovers 
with very small if not undetectable differences.  There is no denying you 
get a benefit (even if it is just the benefit of the wonderful sight and 
smell) by stirring the grounds, it is a very slight difference that I will 
concede for speed and ease of use when there are other pressures on my time. 
There is a much bigger difference to be had by using a gold filter vs paper 
in any of those methods, sometimes better sometimes not, it depends.  If 
someone is considering a Bunn, you have my recommendation that it is a good 
and very convenient pour over coffee pot, especially if you make more than a 
couple pots in the morning.  Don't get the cheap one, get the A10.  

19) From: kevin creason
growing up, my dad employed me to service the Bunn units he lent his
customers (office/restaurant coffee supply company, no roasting involved
The best way to drain them is to flip them up over a floor drain or outside
on the flower bed (if water is cold or the lady (mom) of the house gets a
bit upset).
The worst part of the Bunn is the descaling. Or maybe it was the de-grunging
of the brewing area if the machines did not come back at least once a year,
or more often for the really busy customers. Chemicals for both areas were
often not enough, and went through a lot of razor blades. Also replaced a
lot of thermostats, switches, and heating elements.
Then he started getting Newco's instead of Bunns. But his personal coffee
maker and the one he gave as gifts was a Little Red Wagon that looked and
acts like the team favorite, Technivorm. He still has a couple running (over
20 years old) though the plastic brew cones have rotted out. The last
replacement brewcone I got him was a pour-over cone from our hosts, and with
a little modification, it fits and works very well.
Man... if we had known about personal roasting back then, might have stayed
in instead of switching to IT.....

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