HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Water filtration for coffee question (26 msgs / 1037 lines)
1) From: John Despres
I just had the water softener people out for some repairs on my system 
and we wound up discussing reverse osmosis systems. Their brand is quite 
expensive ($1,300.00 give or take) The repairman left me with a sample 
bottle of their water from their system so I made two cups of coffee: 
one with the bottled water and one with my tap water.
So that's what coffee tastes like! I just did an online search for RO 
systems and have no idea who or what to think about.
I'm in the dark here so will pose this question: Any good systems out 
there the list may send me toward? Installation is not a problem. I 
could buy at Sears, but there may be better...
Any suggestions?
JD
-- 
John A C Despres
Hug your kids
616.437.9182http://www.sceneitallproductions.com

2) From: John Despres
I just had the water softener people out for some repairs on my system 
and we wound up discussing reverse osmosis systems. Their brand is quite 
expensive ($1,300.00 give or take) The repairman left me with a sample 
bottle of their water from their RO system so I made two cups of coffee: 
one with the bottled water and one with my tap water.
So that's what coffee tastes like! I just did an online search for RO 
systems and have no idea who or what to think about.
I'm in the dark here so will pose this question: Any good systems out 
there the list may send me toward? Installation is not a problem. I 
could buy at Sears, but there may be better...
Any suggestions?
JD
-- 
John A C Despres
Hug your kidshttp://www.sceneitallproductions.com

3) From: Mike Koenig
John,
If you are using water from the softener to make coffee,  that might
be causing it to taste like drek.  I use potassium salt in my
softener, and don't really like the taste of the plain water, or the
coffee made with it.
I have a tap connected before the softener, and I filter that through
a Brita, which I use for drinking, cooking and coffee.  Might want to
give that a try before you drop a few hundred on a RO.  (and that
price seems insane.  You can get a 10 gal/day unit for ~$200 or so.)
--mike
On Jan 3, 2008 7:36 PM, John Despres  wrote:
<Snip>

4) From: Julie Yarrington
Yes that price is insane.  I paid $299 for mine and installed myself...very
easy........http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/products.htmThese people were very helpful.
the other Julie
On Jan 3, 2008 7:52 PM, Mike Koenig  wrote:
<Snip>

5) From: John Despres
Thanks, Mike.
The Brita sounds good, yet counter space is at a premium. I've already 
spent a fortune on brewers, roasters, beans and so on, so rebuilding the 
kitchen around my habit may be out of the question. I'm hoping to learn 
something about an under the sink unit.
Maybe I should just melt snow?
JD
Mike Koenig wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
John A C Despres
Hug your kidshttp://www.sceneitallproductions.com

6) From: Treshell
<Snip>
Remember that this is what you are looking at.  There are reasons to use it
and perhaps you should research this part first.
treshell

7) From: Dennis Ryan
I've been using a pur undersink. I think Lowes caries them, and they  
are easy to install. Basically I put it where a soap dispencer used  
to be. In my old house I drilled a hole to install one, and that was  
a huge pain, especially because a balked at the price of a Greenlee  
punch set (would be handy now though, given other hobbies)
  Pur is a competitor of Britta. The filter technology used is the  
same I think --activated carbon and ion exchange to soften a bit. The  
taste of it is about the same as the Britta filters i used to use. I  
recommend it, but I haven't tasted water from other undersink  
filtration systems.
d
On Jan 3, 2008, at 8:16 PM, John Despres wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
poor mans' distillation?

8) From: Robert Avery
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I had an RO system ... put it in myself and got it at Lowe's ... they =
also sell them at Home Depot ... I paid around $250. for mine ... it =
worked great. I moved and haven't had a chance to replace on in the new =
place yet.  =http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productList&N=0&Ntk=i_product=s&Ntt=reverse%20osmosis
Easy to install ... some of these installers want to clean your wallet =
not you water. Later,Bob

9) From: MichaelB
When it comes to decisions on water, read Jim Schulman's insanely long water
faq. (that's really the title; not my assessment of the article :-)http://www.big-rick.com/coffee/waterfaq.htmlOn Jan 3, 2008 7:36 PM, John Despres  wrote:
<Snip>
--
MichaelB

10) From: Tim Harvey
I have an RO system myself (culligan).  You've probably heard this before, but the downfalls are that it supposedly makes your coffee flat, and since it is so pure, it leaches the minerals out of your metal machines over time wich supposedly wears them down.  I've always had RO since getting into coffee so I don't know any better.  A local roastery/cafe uses RO too.  I'm at a crossroads as to what to do my self.  I have to have it processed due to all the nitrates and other chemicals from the cow and corn farms around here. Thinking of some sort of filtered water at least that takes out the chemicals but not minerals if that's possible.  Just some rambling input.
Tim
---- John Despres  wrote: 
=============
I just had the water softener people out for some repairs on my system 
and we wound up discussing reverse osmosis systems. Their brand is quite 
expensive ($1,300.00 give or take) The repairman left me with a sample 
bottle of their water from their RO system so I made two cups of coffee: 
one with the bottled water and one with my tap water.
So that's what coffee tastes like! I just did an online search for RO 
systems and have no idea who or what to think about.
I'm in the dark here so will pose this question: Any good systems out 
there the list may send me toward? Installation is not a problem. I 
could buy at Sears, but there may be better...
Any suggestions?
JD
-- 
John A C Despres
Hug your kidshttp://www.sceneitallproductions.com

11) From: Ken Schillinger
I have my own water well. I wouldn't call the water "hard", but it does have 
a somewhat elevated iron / mineral content. I have a PUR brand water filter 
that screws onto the faucet in my kitchen sink. The filter uses replaceable 
charcoal cartridges, and does a good enough job in my situation.
Ken.

12) From: Doug Boutell
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
John,
Try this, Another homeroaster recommended  this company a few months ago.http://tinyurl.com/236by6I just purchased this model  4 months ago and it works excellent.
I  tested  my water  with the  RO system  and also bypassed the RO portion.
For my water the RO setup was over kill .
Doug
John Despres wrote:
<Snip>

13) From: peterz
This looks like the one I have under my sink:http://www.airwaterice.com/product/1MAX75?metaG&utm_campaign=&utm_content=&utm_mediumC&utm_sourceASE>
Where I live in Arizona you do NOT want to drink the water! Most folks 
have a softener and a RO unit.
You need the softener to keep the scale out of the plumbing etc.
Hope this helps,
PeterZ
John Despres wrote:
<Snip>

14) From: Jeff Cozad
John,
Go out to Google and search for "Insanely Long Water FAQ". This was
originally posted in the alt.coffee USENET group. It's pretty much more than
you want to know on the subject of water.
Jeff C
Bettendorf, IA - Formerly Iowa's Most Exciting City

15) From: ray
Here is how much they cost at the local lumber yardhttp://menards.inserts2online.com/customer_Frame.jsp?drpStoreID=1I have one and it's great never any build up of lime on coffee maker and you
taste just the coffee not the crap in the water also filters out anything
even bacteria and anything over 1 micron in size gets flushed a way makes
plenty for coffee and cooking and drinking even gets the chemicals out of
the water that 3M has leached into our city water supply, but they say
there's no proven risk from there poison in our drinking water.  But of
course you can always trust Corporate chemists they would never lie to you
would they........ More than one reason for an RO nowdays!

16) From: Sandra Andina
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I have inline Pur-type filters (Kenmore) in the water dispenser and  
icemaker of my fridge.  Recently, the espresso tech who's working on  
my Magister says it's as good as the Crystal Geyser I've been buying  
(and starting Jan. 1, paying 5 cents extra as the city's bottled water  
excise tax--which might be declared unconstitutional because it  
singles out one particular food item).
On Jan 3, 2008, at 7:46 PM, Dennis Ryan wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
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I have inline Pur-type filters =
(Kenmore) in the water dispenser and icemaker of my fridge. =
 Recently, the espresso tech who's working on my Magister says it's =
as good as the Crystal Geyser I've been buying (and starting Jan. 1, =
paying 5 cents extra as the city's bottled water excise tax--which might =
be declared unconstitutional because it singles out one particular food =
item).
On Jan 3, 2008, at 7:46 PM, Dennis Ryan =
wrote:
I've been using a pur undersink. I think Lowes caries = them, and they are easy to install. Basically I put it where a soap = dispencer used to be. In my old house I drilled a hole to install one, = and that was a huge pain, especially because a balked at the price of a = Greenlee punch set (would be handy now though, given other = hobbies) Pur is a competitor of Britta. The filter technology = used is the same I think --activated carbon and ion exchange to soften a = bit. The taste of it is about the same as the Britta filters i used to = use. I recommend it, but I haven't tasted water from other undersink = filtration systems. d On Jan 3, 2008, at 8:16 PM, John = Despres wrote: Thanks, = Mike. The Brita = sounds good, yet counter space is at a premium. I've already spent a = fortune on brewers, roasters, beans and so on, so rebuilding the kitchen = around my habit may be out of the question. I'm hoping to learn = something about an under the sink = unit. Maybe I should = just melt snow? poor mans' = distillation? homero= ast mailing list http://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast To change your = personal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to =http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings= Sandy Andinawww.myspace.com/sandyandina = --Apple-Mail-35--70325436--

17) From: ray
Turn him in for trying to rape your wallet!  Concidering what they cost at
the lumber yard like home depot or Manards around here he is about 1100.00
dollars high!!!!!!!!  Takes not much talent to put one in even if you cant
sure pay off big time for you to hire it done by the local plumer.  Like
most water softener company's they bang you big time for there product and
hope like hell you don't get smart on them.  I hold them in the same class
as used car salesman, siding salesmen ect.

18) From: Greg Scace
RO systems shouldn't be used with coffee machines for 2 reasons.
First, water from RO systems is pretty aggressive chemically and can 
cause you problems with eating away tubing and boilers.
Second, there's supposed to be some hardness to the water.  I forget 
the actual number, but you need some.  RO systems used for commercial 
shops add hardness back into the water after the RO step.
Check these guys out to learn more -http://www.cirqua.com/Also, you might read Jim Schulman's  "Insanely Long Water FAQ", which 
is quite good.  It can be found here:http://www.big-rick.com/coffee/waterfaq.html-Greg
At 05:26 PM 1/3/2008, you wrote:
<Snip>

19) From: Julie Yarrington
Make sure the snow is not yellow ;)
On Jan 3, 2008 8:16 PM, John Despres  wrote:
<Snip>

20) From: Robert Avery
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Think about a faucet unit ... I use one here all of the time if your =
just looking for a clean water deal. Or if you are just looking for =
clean water, etc. I use on my S1 a two cartridge unit. One Carbon filter =
for taste and general clean up and a softener cartridge for getting the =
water soft enough to prevent the corrosion issues that have been talked =
about. I got my unit from Chris Coffee Service. It does a nice job =
keeping my boiler clean and the taste uniform. After all .... we're not =
launching rockets here .... Later,Bob

21) From: Robert Avery
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Oops forgot the website .... for Chris Coffee. =http://www.chriscoffee.com/Later,Bob

22) From: gin
JD:
were you using your soft water for coffee?
ginny
---- John Despres  wrote: 
<Snip>

23) From: John Despres
Yes. Should I not be using softened water? If so, why not? For the 
moment, Before the repairs to my system, I'd been buying water and it 
tastes quite good. The purchased water does taste better than the tap 
water, so with those two options, bought, for the moment, is better.
John
gin wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
John A C Despres
Hug your kids
616.437.9182http://www.sceneitallproductions.com

24) From: Phil Bergman Jungle Music
John,
I'm familiar with RO because I have a large unit at my nursery.  In my area
the TDS count on our municipal water is about 750 parts per million.  TDS is
total dissolved solids.  This basically includes everything that's in the
water. The water does not taste good, nor does the coffee with tap water.
Typically with a water system, one has filters (including charcoal) to take
out chlorine, debri, and some chemicals.  These filters are placed before
the water reaches the RO membranes.  The RO membranes remove everything
else.  In the nursery, we get down to about 10 parts per million.  A water
softener can be added before the RO membranes and filters.  Its function is
to replace Calcium with Sodium.  The membranes then remove the Sodium.  This
is done to make the membranes last longer because Calcium scales up the
membranes and they age too quickly.  For coffee and drinks, I put in a small
RO unit under the kitchen sink.  It has several filters but no softener.  It
cost $200 on the Net.  If you are have some plumbing skills, you can put it
in yourself.  A plumber would take an hour or two to do it.  The bottom line
is the coffee tastes a lot better.  A water softener by itself gives you a
lot of Sodium, so RO would be good under the sink to remove the sodium if
you already have a house softener.  Some units use Potassium instead of
Sodium when softening.  Re loss of minerals, most diets more than make up
for the loss of "minerals" from drinking RO water. Re corrosion, I cannot
comment from experience, but the RO water sure makes good coffee.
Phil

25) From: John Despres
Thanks, Phil. I wonder what the difference between potassium chloride 
and sodium chloride is in the softener.
Our water is highly chlorinated and at times can smell and taste like a 
swimming pool. Our softener seems to take care of this so that's an 
improvement right away.
Next question - if the softener replaces calcium with sodium, then the 
RO (which removes almost all particulate matter) removes the sodium, is 
the softener redundant? Wouldn't the RO soften the water anyway as part 
of it's other functions?
I ask all this regarding coffee only, not whole house. A soft water 
shower is a great thing as well as all the other attributes of soft water.
JD
Phil Bergman Jungle Music wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
John A C Despres
Hug your kids
616.437.9182http://www.sceneitallproductions.com

26) From: Phil Bergman Jungle Music
The softener removes Calcium which fouls the membranes.  The RO removes the
Sodium and Sodium doesn't scale the membranes.  It is redundant but prolongs
the life of the RO membranes which are expensive.  Having good drinking
water and shower water are two different things.
Phil


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