HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Blueberries or Barnyard Funk? (17 msgs / 613 lines)
1) From: Phil Bergman Jungle Music
About ten months ago, I purchased several pounds of "Ethipia Organic Idido
Misty Valley" coffee from SM's.  I've been roasting for over a year and have
had tons of fantastic cofees from SM.  But, this one I didn't like.  I
roasted it multiple times to various degrees, but could never escape an
undesirable flavor.  It had a certain "funk" to it that I found far less
than appealing.  I posted a question about it at the time on this list,
thinking perhaps I'd stumbled on a few "bad beans" in the batch.  There
wasn't much feedback.  Since that time there's been a few threads about
green beans with a peculiar or funky roasted flavor/aroma that people went
on and on describing.  The term "barnyard" was used.  When I heard of this,
I chose not to experiment on those beans.  Well, this year I decided to give
Misty Valley" another try with a new recent crop of beans.  To be safe and
make sure I didn't get some of the same beans, I bought it from another
green bean vendor.  With excitement I roasted it to a nice Full City.  And,
to my disappointment, there was that funky taste again; but with a new batch
of beans from a different crop!  So, putting on my taster hat, I critically
approached the coffee and tried to describe the flavor.  It did have a
"blueberry" smell and taste.  I didn't like that flavor and considered it a
flaw.  But, it dawned on me that others might find this an appealing and
unusual fruit flavor.  I don't know for sure, but am suspicious that it is a
flaw in the collecting of or preparing of the beans.  Or, could it be that
Misty Valley always tastes like this???  Is it Blueberries or Barnyard
Funk??? In my roasting career I've roasted at least 40 to 50 varieties of
green beans.  I have tasted hints of this in a few other coffees, but the
Misty Valley wins the prize for being the most forward with this flavor.  I
realize by posting this, some might be critical of me saying that I "don't
appreciate" unusual flavors.  Perhaps.  But, are some "unusual flavors" a
bean characteristic or some type of flaw?  I am not a newbie with coffee and
have had 30 years experience with semi-professional wine tasting.  So, I
feel my palate is not suspect.  Is there such a thing that flaws from the
origin become more of a characteristic of the bean than a flaw?  I'll await
your comments.
Phil

2) From: Andy Thomas
It ounds to me that you just don't care for the taste/aroma of Misty Valley. Nothing wrong with that. That said, I haven't experienced the funkiness you describe and the blueberriness is also slight compared to some others. If you want to be overwhelmed by blueberies, try India Anohki Liberica! The barnyard funk sounds like sulfide. Is it like a burned match, burned rubber smell? If so, you may be able to control it by adjusting the roast, but I will leave it to someone else to advise how to do that, since I haven't a clue.
Andy
----- Original Message ----
From: Phil Bergman Jungle Music 
To: homeroast
Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2008 4:43:59 AM
Subject: +RE: Blueberries or Barnyard Funk?
About ten months ago, I purchased several pounds of "Ethipia Organic Idido
Misty Valley" coffee from SM's.  I've been roasting for over a year and have
had tons of fantastic cofees from SM.  But, this one I didn't like.  I
roasted it multiple times to various degrees, but could never escape an
undesirable flavor.  It had a certain "funk" to it that I found far less
than appealing.  I posted a question about it at the time on this list,
thinking perhaps I'd stumbled on a few "bad beans" in the batch.  There
wasn't much feedback.  Since that time there's been a few threads about
green beans with a peculiar or funky roasted flavor/aroma that people went
on and on describing.  The term "barnyard" was used.  When I heard of this,
I chose not to experiment on those beans.  Well, this year I decided to give
Misty Valley" another try with a new recent crop of beans.  To be safe and
make sure I didn't get some of the same beans, I bought it from another
green bean vendor.  With excitement I roasted it to a nice Full City.   And,
to my disappointment, there was that funky taste again; but with a new batch
of beans from a different crop!  So, putting on my taster hat, I critically
approached the coffee and tried to describe the flavor.  It did have a
"blueberry" smell and taste.  I didn't like that flavor and considered it a
flaw.  But, it dawned on me that others might find this an appealing and
unusual fruit flavor.  I don't know for sure, but am suspicious that it is a
flaw in the collecting of or preparing of the beans.  Or, could it be that
Misty Valley always tastes like this???  Is it Blueberries or Barnyard
Funk??? In my roasting career I've roasted at least 40 to 50 varieties of
green beans.  I have tasted hints of this in a few other coffees, but the
Misty Valley wins the prize for being the most forward with this flavor.  I
realize by posting this, some might be critical of me saying that I "don't
appreciate" unusual flavors.  Perhaps.  But, are some "unusual flavors" a
bean characteristic or some type of flaw?  I am not a newbie with coffee and
have had 30 years experience with semi-professional wine tasting.  So, I
feel my palate is not suspect.  Is there such a thing that flaws from the
origin become more of a characteristic of the bean than a flaw?  I'll await
your comments.
PhilLooking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

3) From: Brett Mason
I didn't care for the IMV so much, and the Anohki Liberica?  This was
too much for me...
Seems like we are each gifted with a custom set of taste buds and
sniffers, and what is my favorite is not yet yours, for example...
Best cup I ever had was the Costa Rica "Cafe Vida" which I bought from
******************************** before I came to Sweet Maria's.
Since then, I have bought several Costa Rica's, from both Sweet
Maria's and many others like **************************** but I have
never replicated that cup.  Some have been close...
Barnyard and Pungent Diapers haven't done it for me.  Nor has Harar,
30, Monsooned Malabar, or some others that many of you love.  I am
thrilled you like them - I know I am still working my favorites too...
Happy Quaffing,
Brett
On Jan 5, 2008 11:33 AM, Andy Thomas  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

4) From: Kris McN
Phil,
To be safe and
<Snip>
Well, I can't speak to the quality of beans you received from another
vendor.  It is possible you got beans with processing flaws in that case.
However...
I didn't like that flavor and considered it a
<Snip>
 the blueberry flavor is a characteristic in some years - desirable to some,
not a processing flaw.  Just like some regional/varietal characteristics
include more or less chocolate, or more or less malty-ness, or more or less
citrus.  I personally LOVE the berry and search for beans with this cup
character.  This morning I'm enjoying a cup of the DP Special Select Sidamo
that's developed just a hint of berry and I couldn't be happier.  I've never
experienced a "barnyard" flavor/aroma from either of the last two offerings
of the Misty Valley, but then so much of flavor experience is personal.
Since it doesn't seem to be your thing, I'd avoid the Misty Valley offerings
(as well as the Sidamos) in the future.  And don't even THINK about the
Liberica.  (Then there'll be more of those beans for folks like me :-))
Kris McN

5) From: Barry Luterman
I too am not crazy about it. I have long decided I am just not a fan of DP
coffees. There are so many out there to enjoy I just stay away from the DP.
Sitting here enjoying some nice Guatemalan Ocana
On Jan 5, 2008 2:43 AM, Phil Bergman Jungle Music <
phil.bergman> wrote:
<Snip>

6) From: Bryan Wray
I also have not experienced anything even close to that funkiness, and also, this year's IMV really does not have even close to the same blueberry notes as last years (IMO of course).  I don't usually get any blueberry out of this and I have had 3-4 coffees (sometimes FP, sometimes SO) off of 10 different roasts so far, to levels all over the board (even tried a vienna) and I don't personally get blueberry very much at all (I cup each batch I roast once and make actual written notes, other than that it's just remembering here and there- so far I have tasted a slight hint of blueberry twice; last year I got huge blueberry notes each and every time).  Don't know what to tell ya, but for a good comparison to "barnyard" I second the recommendation of trying the India Anohki Liberica.
-Bry
 
Bryan Wray
NaDean's Coffee Place/
Dino's Coffee Lounge
Kalamazoo, MI
"It is my hope that people realize that coffee is more than just a caffeine delivery service, it can be a culinary art"- Chris Owens.
       
---------------------------------
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7) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
I think with all dry process coffees you have to approach them with a 
fairly forgiving attitude - you are not going to get crystal clarity 
from the flavors, you are not going to get flawless sweetness, or 
perfect fruited notes. But you a re going to get a lot of complexity, 
something to think about. I think your notes are really good, and why 
shouldn't you find that one of the pinnacles of dry process coffees, 
this carefully harvested and prepared Misty Valley, is actually less 
appealing to you than perhaps milder dry-process lots? For example, a 
wet-process Yirg, a totally different animal, can have outrageous, 
pinpoint acidity. A few years back we had one lot that was, in my 
memory, the most effervescent, citrusy-bright Yirgacheffe. I had MORE 
complaints about that lot than any other coffee!!! Why? because if 
that's not the general coffee flavor profile you like, you will 
dislike a really good lot even more than a less acidic, more muted 
lot. Now in the case of Misty valley, shipment 1 from last year was 
the best, this shipment from this year (there's only 1 lot this year) 
is 2nd, and shipment 2 from last year is 3rd, rating the fruit 
forward tastes, prep, and overall cup. In terms of DP coffees from 
Ethiopia this past season (given the mediocrity of harar and such) 
the Misty valley is by far the best of the season. I cupped it 
against the over-rated Beloya dry process of last year, and IMV 
literally BLEW OUT those coffees, I mean, it was no contest at all. 
Also, barnyard is a very strong word  ... you would have a hard time 
finding a cupper that would call IMV barnyardy ... if you want 
barnyard, I can show you some of the real stuff in all the Sidamo 
samples from last year I rejected. That's part of the reason we offer 
the Thumbs Down coffee (currently, the swampy Sulawesi), to train 
people in defects. I will try to get a really barnyard-like lot in 
the future for this, (often Ghimbi and Djimmah are the best 
candidates for this). Anwyay, good thread ...
--
                   "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
            Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting  -  Tom & Maria
                      http://www.sweetmarias.com                Thompson Owen george_at_sweetmarias.com
     Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
             phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom_at_sweetmarias.com

8) From: Dave Ehrenkranz
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The first Idido Misty Valley lot I got was from Fall 2006 and I was  
stunned, excited, and pleased when I actually noticed the blueberry.  
Shortly after got the next crop (January '07) and while I enjoyed it  
I was disappointed I could not find any blueberry notes. I have the  
most recent crop from October '07 and am resting it a few days. I  
understand this one has strawberry note. Hopefully I will be able to  
notice them
Tom, are the same crops you mentioned below?
dave
On Jan 5, 2008, at 1:33 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee wrote:
<Snip>
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The first Idido Misty Valley lot =
I got was from Fall 2006 and I was stunned, excited, and pleased when I =
actually noticed the blueberry. Shortly after got the next crop (January =
'07) and while I enjoyed it I was disappointed I could not find any =
blueberry notes. I have the most recent crop from October '07 and am =
resting it a few days. I understand this one has strawberry note. =
Hopefully I will be able to notice them
Tom, are the same crops you = mentioned below?
dave = On Jan 5, 2008, at 1:33 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee = wrote:

 Now in the case of Misty = valley, shipment 1 from last year was the best, this shipment from this = year (there's only 1 lot this year) is 2nd, and shipment 2 from last = year is 3rd, rating the fruit forward tastes, prep, and overall cup. In = terms of DP coffees from Ethiopia this past season (given the mediocrity = of harar and such) the Misty valley is by far the best of the = season. 

= = --Apple-Mail-5-79596272--

9) From: Alchemist John
It's odd.  This is one of my top 5 favorite beans.  The 1st shipment 
last year that is.  I liked the 2nd lot, but it was not quite the 
same.  I have the lot this year (and Tom says it's better) so I am 
looking forward to it.
Now, since it is in this thread, I will mention a blueberry funk that 
I thought reminded me greatly of the Liberica.  The Ethiopian 
Golacha.  It fell into the case of the Liberica that it was almost 
too much.  Has anyone else found this in the Golacha?  I looked up 
the type and it just said "heirloom" - Tom, could there be Liberica 
in some of it now that we know at least one profile it has?
At 16:00 1/5/2008, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

10) From: Phil Bergman Jungle Music
Tom,
There's no question that this "flavor" is liked by some and not liked by
others.  That's not where I want to go with this discussion because it's so
personal.  Rather, my questions are: Is this flavor characteristic of all
IMV or is it from something occuring after the trees made the fruit?  Will
IMV always (from all sources) have this flavor to some extent or another?
Does this flavor appear in other beans?  I figure if it is something that
comes with the processing, it would be seen with other bean types.  And, in
fact, I've seen hints of it here and there (sporadically) with other beans
from distant areas compared to IMV.  This makes me think it's from the
processing process.  Ie, that it's not characteristic of the fruit but
rather of the way the beans are collected, store, processed, etc.  In wines,
there's no question that the length of time the fruit is on the vine affects
flavor and concentration.  Fungal infections can change the taste.  Storms
cause rot/problems and this changes the taste.  Holding times affect flavor.
etc. etc.  And, this is with all types of wines to a greater or lesser
extent around the world.  Some wine producers search for these changes.
"Barnyard" was a harsh term, I admit.  It's at the far end of the spectrum
and would only be used by those who really dislike the taste we're
discussing.  You are the one with the vast experience.  Does the "Swampy
Sulawesi" have this same flavor but to an extreme?  Answers to all these
questions help us learn.  Thanks.
Phil

11) From: Sandra Andina
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OTOH, look at what molds and fungus do for cheese.  And some of the  
world's greatest wines (if you're into late harvest sweet dessert  
wines) owe their existence to botrytis cinerea (sp?), a fungus called  
"noble rot," which occurs in conditions of cool morning fog in  
overripe grapes--e.g., Sauternes like Chateau d'Yquem.
On Jan 6, 2008, at 8:56 AM, Phil Bergman Jungle Music wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
--Apple-Mail-77-144310360
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	charset-ASCII
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OTOH, look at what molds and =
fungus do for cheese.  And some of the world's greatest wines (if =
you're into late harvest sweet dessert wines) owe their existence to =
botrytis cinerea (sp?), a fungus called "noble rot," which occurs in =
conditions of cool morning fog in overripe grapes--e.g., Sauternes like =
Chateau d'Yquem. 
On Jan 6, 2008, at 8:56 AM, Phil =
Bergman Jungle Music wrote:
Fungal infections can change the = taste.  Storms cause rot/problems and this changes the taste. =   = Sandy Andinawww.myspace.com/sandyandina = --Apple-Mail-77-144310360--

12) From: DJ Garcia
I have found that IMV works best with a longer roast in my Hottop (14 mins
or so to first crack from load), and is at its best after several days rest.
DJ
From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Dave Ehrenkranz
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 7:00 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +RE: Blueberries or Barnyard Funk?
The first Idido Misty Valley lot I got was from Fall 2006 and I was stunned,
excited, and pleased when I actually noticed the blueberry. Shortly after
got the next crop (January '07) and while I enjoyed it I was disappointed I
could not find any blueberry notes. I have the most recent crop from October
'07 and am resting it a few days. I understand this one has strawberry note.
Hopefully I will be able to notice them 
Tom, are the same crops you mentioned below?
dave
On Jan 5, 2008, at 1:33 PM, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee wrote:
	Now in the case of Misty valley, shipment 1 from last year was the
best, this shipment from this year (there's only 1 lot this year) is 2nd,
and shipment 2 from last year is 3rd, rating the fruit forward tastes, prep,
and overall cup. In terms of DP coffees from Ethiopia this past season
(given the mediocrity of harar and such) the Misty valley is by far the best
of the season.

13) From: miKe mcKoffee
The primary distinctiveness of Yirgacheffe Idido Misty Valley compared to
other Yirgacheffe coffees is indeed the processing. Specifically traditional
Yirg's are wet processed while IMV is dry processed.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
<Snip>

14) From: Tom Ulmer
I am enjoying the Limu which used an Indonesian process and introduces a
rustic "funk" that I find quit pleasing.

15) From: Bryan Wray
Not Tom, but...
Perhaps you just don't like dry-processed beans?  It would be hard for me to answer if the "barnyard" characteristic is of IMV beans or Yirgs or anything because to me they are bright and sparkling, about as far away from barnyard as possible.  Thats kind of the main characteristic of IMV and Yirgs: their sparkling acidity, citrus, floral and fruit flavors.  There certainly is a rustic note to some of them, which I guess is what you are picking up on?  If you have any Sumatra beans, try those and see if you pick up the same funk that you don't like.  My guess would be you simply just don't like dry-processed beans, and you would not be the first person in that group.
-Bry
Bryan Wray
NaDean's Coffee Place
Kalamazoo, MI
"It is my hope that people realize that coffee is more than just a caffeine delivery service, it can be a culinary art"- Chris Owens of Cafe Grumpy in NYC.
       
---------------------------------
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16) From: Rick Copple
I roasted only one pound of the IMV so far, and really liked it. I 
tasted the strawberry flavor in it. And my mom, got a cup and commented 
on how good it was. At least, that one pound didn't have any barnyard 
taste to it, or blueberry, but then the notes didn't say much about 
blueberry. What it did say seemed pretty much on the mark from what I 
tasted, and I think I took it to a full city.
-- 
Rick Copple

17) From: Phil Bergman Jungle Music
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Bry,
I've had lots of DP coffees without this taste.  I've got well over a pound
of the SM's batch from 10 months ago.  It's still in the plastic bag, sealed
up.  If anyone wants to give it a try, I'd be willing to ship it off to them
free of charge to see what they think.  I'd really like to know if the new
roaster considers it a good trait.  Or, if anyone is in the San Diego area,
let me know because that's where I live.
Phil


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