HomeRoast Digest

Topic: new burr report (21 msgs / 411 lines)
1) From: Allon Stern
Just prior to replacing the burrs in my Rossi RR45, I pulled a couple  
of amazing shots of Yemen Mokha on about 5 days of rest;  
unfortunately, it was the last of my stash - I really do need to buy  
some more.
But I had some IMV which I had never tried before.
I've replaced the burrs, and cleaned everything as much as possible.
Okay, yesterday I did some IMV I had on a few days rest, but probably  
over-roasted, as well as some espresso monkey, also a little too  
dark....so I did another batch of IMV a little lighter....
IMV with only a day of rest - I need to roast more, but with  
espresso, I'm barely keeping up with my demand. Maybe it's time for a  
HG/DB or HG/BM setup?
The first shot way way too fast - 15 seconds, and SOUR!
2nd shot was ground finer, but still only 15 seconds; not as sour.  
Drinkable, but not great.
3rd shot was even finer. Ahh, 31 seconds, a nice shot. I don't have  
the vocabulary or training to report much further - I need to  
experiment more and compare my taste buds to other folks' reports.
I will say that while this was a good shot, it wasn't the same as  
that crema-licking-good Yemen Mokha. Those shots really stuck with  
me. My taste buds were replaying the flavor as I tried to sleep that  
night. I looked forward to equally impressive shots with the IMV, but  
I'm just not there yet. I gotta stop drinking this stuff before it  
grows up :)
(and my non-coffee-drinking wife rolls her eyes - you're roasting  
Anyway, back to the burrs....
The new burrs touch at about the same setting as the old burrs did,  
but it seems that I require a much finer grind than before; is that  
due to the lack of as many fines as with the worn burrs? It seems  
that the lighter roast of IMV requires a finer setting than the  
darker roast, too. Do the burrs need any time to "break in", or  
should they be at optimal consistency right out of the box?
I did notice that the grinder sounds different with the new burrs.  
More of a throaty grrrrr, and not as much high pitched whining.

2) From: dfluke
I'm glad my wife isn't the only one that says that.
I find it's hard to pull a consistent shot on my generic mr. coffee pump 
espresso machine, and I think it has to deal a lot with the fact that 
once I dial in my grinder (maestro plus) to a nice setting, I'm roasting 
another batch or another type of coffee, and I have to start all over. 
I've not found any single origin shot that I'm super thrilled about yet, 
and haven't gotten into blends.
Due to my limited knowledge on the subject, I'm interested to see what 
others have to say as well.
Allon Stern wrote:

3) From: raymanowen
With any grinder, the grinding mechanism never gets any better than the very
first time you grind coffee. After that, the burrs are never as sharp, and
they get progressively worse as you grind.
At this point, "Breaking in" has to do with finding the exact setting for
the extraction you want. You bought new burrs for them to grind differently-
you should hope they do.
The burrs wear microscopically with every revolution of grinding coffee. My
kludge design will have reciprocating true flat burrs, known as "Bastards"
and they're currently on the market at just about any hardware store in the
Mine will also wear, but they'll be so cheap and easy to replace, any excuse
for non-replacement will be patently fraudulent. Nicholson burrs.
Further along with grinders, you can have the very top espresso machine and
tamper you want. You're at the mercy of the grinder to produce the exact
particulate size, not a Paisley grind or a mystery sampler grind.
With a variety grind, you have no control over where in the pf the fine vs
coarse will be located. With the pressure and temperature gradients present
in the puck, the shot quality will be totally out of control.
With the best espresso machine, most grinders will confound your best
efforts to perfect a shot. Always put your money in the grinder at the
start, don't start out with a bottleneck. Do it sooner and you won't be
wasting so much exquisite coffee.
To each his own, but reflect on the lunacy of user operated transportation
at $15 to $30Big per copy. Three to five years later, you might have spent
half as much again to maintain and feed the Land Barge, then you drop for
Say again, how much you can't afford for a grinder that will last for 15
years easy in home use, won't get dinged in a parking lot and never gets its
own structure?
Cheers, Mabuhay-RayO, aka Opa!
On Jan 23, 2008 1:10 PM, dfluke  wrote:
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976

4) From: b cook
I would guess that you have a hard time pulling consistent/satisfying shots
primarily because you're using a grinder that is subpar for making
espresso.  Add to that a machine that probably has horrid temperature
stability and you have the perfect recipe for inconsistency.  Since you
confess to not being knowledgable on the subject then I assume that perhaps
you're new to making espresso and therefore are probably still learning the
rudiments of the process.  All of these things are adding to your problem.
If you want to keep up the espresso thing I'd recommend first start saving
for a new grinder that is suitable for espresso such as the Nemox Lux (I
hear they're going for something like $140 lately), the Le'Lit PL53 (200),
Cunill Tranquilo (~220ish), Rocky, Mazzer, etc..  The grinder is an
extremely important component in the espresso process and you're already
fighting a losing battle when you start out with one that is unsuitable for
the task.  Save the maestro for drip and get yourself an espresso grinder..I
think you'll be glad you did.
In the meantime read up on the espresso-making process.  Here's a good
On Jan 23, 2008 2:10 PM, dfluke  wrote:

5) From: Brett Mason
That's good advice...
On Jan 23, 2008 10:54 PM, b cook  wrote:

6) From: Barry Luterman
I agree, however, start at the level of the Rocky for espresso. Rocky is the
entry grinder for espresso. If it's not too far a reach go for the Mazzer.
If you really get into espresso. You will eventually outgrow the Rocky.
Rocky is good for the occasional espresso. When espresso becomes your main
drink only Mazzer or better will  do.
On Jan 23, 2008 6:54 PM, b cook  wrote:

7) From: b cook
The Nemox Lux, the Le'Lit PL53 and all the other grinders that use that Tre
Spade conical burrset are widely acknowledged as having an excellent grind
quality for espresso.  The Lux held it's own against the Mazzer Robur in the
blind tastings of the Titan Grinder Project.  They are excellent grinders
for the money.  Likewise the Cunill Tranquilo is another lower-priced
grinder that has absolutely outstanding grind quality.  I know this from
experience.  Fluffier than the Mazzer Mini IMO.  It can be a bit messy
though.  I previously had a Mazzer Mini and currently have a Super Jolly.  I
agree that the Rocky and Mazzers are fantastic grinders that I would
recommend to anyone for espresso but there are VERY good and capable budget
options for those who cannot afford them.  I wouldn't go less than the Nemox
Lux though.  The Capresso Infinities, Solis Maestros and Baratzas just
cannot hang with the big boys for espresso... I know THAT from experience as
On Jan 23, 2008 11:03 PM, Barry Luterman  wrote:

8) From: Barry Luterman
Might be I have no experience the Tre Spade burr set. But also remember it
is not only the burrs but the motor torque as well. For me I couldn't get
decent espresso until I got my rocky. Things continued to improve after I
got my Mazzer.
On Jan 23, 2008 7:12 PM, b cook  wrote:

9) From: miKe mcKoffee
Yes, new burrs tend to produce fluffier more consistent grind with less
fines. If previous burr set badly dulled could be like almost learning to
use the grinder all over again!
Normal for lighter roast of same varietal to require finer grind.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/

10) From: dfluke
Yea, I can pull some really good shots, but never one right after the 
other.. I have noticed dry pucks, wet pucks, channeling, etc. all in one 
session of pulling 8 to 10 shots just practicing. I'm not too serious 
about it all, but prior to grabbing a Gaggia Classic and RR combo, I 
need to save some cash for a while. I've been researching and pricing 
different machines for a while now and just know that the further I get 
into wanting an americano everyday instead of brewed coffee, that I'm 
going to need an upgrade.
Thanks for the link too.
b cook wrote:

11) From: Jim Gundlach
On Jan 23, 2008, at 8:29 PM, raymanowen wrote:
     I missed the details on your kludged up Bastard Grinder, can you  
point me toward the details.  Sorry to be redundant.
         pecan jim

12) From: Cameron Forde
Not Rayo, but I think that he was referring to flat files that are
called bastards and are available at any hardware store.  Haven't
sorted out the Nicholson reference.  Anyone?
On Jan 24, 2008 10:11 AM, Jim Gundlach  wrote:

13) From: Rich
They manufacture files.....
Cameron Forde wrote:

14) From: Jim Gundlach
Nicholson is a major brand of files, including bastards.  I was  
interested in what kinds of ideas he had for a bean feed/interface to  
the file.
      pecan jim
On Jan 24, 2008, at 12:50 PM, Cameron Forde wrote:

15) From: Brett Mason
Speaking of new Burr report...  It is 1 degree Fahrenheit here right now.
It was -19 earlier today....
On 1/24/08, Jim Gundlach  wrote:

16) From: Cameron Forde
So not Jack Nicholson then...
On Jan 24, 2008 11:04 AM, Jim Gundlach  wrote:

17) From: Mike Chester

18) From: ray
Haven't sorted out the Nicholson reference.  Nicholson is one of the biggest
makers of files in the US and supply 99% of all files of quality available
some China junk floating around  as with anything in the us

19) From: Allon Stern
On Jan 24, 2008, at 3:47 PM, Mike Chester wrote:
not to mention the diagonal cutters.....

20) From: Allon Stern
On Jan 24, 2008, at 1:25 AM, miKe mcKoffee wrote:
Yes, it sure is. I did much better today...
I pulled a few shots of IMV on a couple of days of rest. Much better  
than yesterday's.....and if I can keep from touching the batch I  
roasted last night, it should have the weekend to rest.
30 sec pull. perfect mouse tails, tiger striping.
chocolate, hints of  fruit and I swear I had a burst of caramel, but  
it quicky faded into the background.

21) From: Larry Johnson
I have a story on those....but I'm not gonna tell it. ;-)
On 1/24/08, Allon Stern  wrote:
Larry J

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