HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Adventure with Hottop B (15 msgs / 591 lines)
1) From: Mike Chester
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I recently upgraded my Hottop to the new B model control system.  I =
wanted to have more profiling capability than I could get using the D =
control.  I have now roasted seven roasts using it.  The first 2 were =
done using the built in "profile."  I put that in quotes, because it is =
not much of a profile.  Basically it is heater at 100% until it is done. =
 The default is 18 minutes, but that long at 100% would result in a =
fire.  At that rate, the beans are going into second crack at 12 =
minutes.  This "profile" results in a rather in a rather unremarkable =
cup.  Several members have sent profiles for the P model Hottop and they =
have been useful, but the B model programs backwards from the P model.  =
In the P (or the CCR) you set a segment target temperature and a time.  =
The control system ramps up the heater and adjusts the fan to try to =
achieve the setting in the designated time.  With the B model, you set =
the percentage of heater power and fan and see what temperature is =
reached.  It does have the advantage of on the fly adjustment, so you =
can change the profile as you go.  I have read that some people prefer =
this over the P model which does not permit this.  Anyway, I have come =
up with an 18:30 profile that has 14 places where the heater, fan, or =
both are adjusted.  If I don't eject early, I have about 4.5 - 5 minutes =
from start of first to EOR.  This seems to be a good general purpose =
profile.  On some beans, it just touches second and on others it ends =
before second.  I now need to work on other profiles for different beans =
and degrees of roast.  If anyone would like to see the profile, I can =
post it, but it is a bit of a pain to do if there is no one wants to see =
it.  Let me know if interested.  
So far, I like this new control much better than the D.  I also changed =
the heating element and the temperature sensor to make it perform like =
new.  I still have the option of going to the P if I want to.  Oddly, =
the cost of upgrading to the B and then to the P is exactly the same as =
going straight to the P so I thought that I would give the B a try first =
and if I didn't care for it, I could still get the P.  
A couple of people wrote to suggest that It would be more cost effective =
to buy a new Behmor, and keep the D model Hottop.  I thought long and =
hard before deciding to go for the upgrade instead.  As I sit here with =
my feet still cold after coming in from roasting 4 batches in the garage =
3 hours ago, having a roaster that I could use inside might have been a =
better idea.  :>)}
BTW - If anyone is still using a Hottop with the analog panel and wants =
to upgrade to the D panel, I will sell it cheap.  I will also throw in a =
spare power supply/main board.  Contact me off list if interested.  
Mike Chester

2) From: Cameron Forde
Hi Mike,
Does the change to the B panel allow you to roast more than 250 g at a
shot?  I'm wondering if my money is better spent on the Behmor or an
upgrade to my Hottop.
Cameron
On Jan 28, 2008 7:02 PM, Mike Chester  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
ceforde

3) From: miKe mcKoffee
If flat out 100% power hits 2nd in 12min 250g batch then sure, you can roast
larger batches with subsequent longer roasts. Done over 500 300g+ batches
the last 3 months! Albeit via CCR Hottops. (Most ~330g batches in the 17 to
19min range roasting in garage ambient temps often in the 30's. FWIW also
running 126v full load voltage to help compensate for combination large
batches and cool ambient:-)
The biggest weakness I see with the P is inability to change parameters or
go manual mid-roast. The biggest weakness I see with the B is only being
able to save 3 profiles. Beauty of the CCR unlimited profiles, ability to
modify profile segments during roast or go manual control at any time and a
biggy; monitoring both drum environment temp and bean mass temp with fast
responding TC's. Of course neither P or B "stock" models cost near as much
as the CCR HT when it was available...
IF I was buying a stock Hottop it would be the B. Flexibility winning over
greater profile capacity.
If I was to choose between a Hottop B and a Behmor it would be a HT B for
it's much greater roast profile control.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
<Snip>

4) From: Cameron Forde
Hi miKe,
Thanks for the information on B/P/CCR controlled hottops.  The fact
that the weakness of the B is only having the ability to save 3
profiles is quite a selling point for me.  It would be nice to have
the ability to control the roast more than the basic 8828 allows, and
if I can roast 20% more at a time, even better.  I'm sure that the CCR
is a lot of fun to work with but it is a little pricey (or was when
they were available).  The main attraction of the Behmor is the
ability to roast 1 lb.  But it sounds like there might not be much
profile space to explore and still get the pound roasted in a decent
time.  I realize that it is asking a lot of an electrical home
appliance to put out the heat needed to roast a full pound of coffee.
Cameron
On Jan 28, 2008 10:32 PM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
ceforde

5) From: MichaelB
You can turn the heat on or off at any time on a stock Hottop P.  Just
press the up or down arrow keys until the light on the key goes out. So if
your roast is speeding through first and still heating you can hit the down
arrow key until the heater turns off and the roast slows. It will go back to
the programmed temp setting in every segment but you can continue to ride
these keys during each segment you want to vary. Not CCR control but enough
to get some nice stretching between 1st and onset of 2nd, and also to
tame speedy decafs and prevent them from taking off too fast during and
after 1st.
On 1/29/08, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
--
MichaelB

6) From: Mike Chester
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

7) From: Cameron Forde
Hi Mike and Michael,
I'm liking the idea of upgrading my Hottop the more I hear.  I'd be
interested in seeing any profiles you would care to share, or tips in
getting started.
Cameron
On Jan 29, 2008 6:46 AM, Mike Chester  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
ceforde

8) From: Robert Yoder
What is the heat source in the Hottops?  Is it radiant like the Behmor?  Ho=
w do they handle smoke? How does their weight compare to the Behmor?
 
Happy Roasting!
 
Robert Yoder> From: ceforde> To: homeroast>=
 Subject: Re: +Adventure with Hottop B> Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 11:58:20 -08=
00> > Hi Mike and Michael,> > I'm liking the idea of upgrading my Hottop th=
e more I hear. I'd be> interested in seeing any profiles you would care to =
share, or tips in> getting started.> > Cameron> > On Jan 29, 2008 6:46 AM, =
Mike Chester  wrote:> >> >> >> > ----- Original Message =
-----> > From: "miKe mcKoffee" > > To: > >> > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 1:32 AM> > Subject:=
 RE: +Adventure with Hottop B> >> >> >> > > If flat out 100% power hits 2nd=
 in 12min 250g batch then sure, you can> > roast> > > larger batches with s=
ubsequent longer roasts.> >> > It hit second in 12 minutes with an ambient =
temp of ~20 F and a full load> > line voltage of 121 volts. The new main bo=
ard that comes with the B and P> > is supposed to have onboard voltage comp=
ensation so a variac is not supposed> > to be needed unless line voltage is=
 very low.> > I did several 300 gram roasts with the D control by adding ab=
out 1.5 - 2> > minutes to the 250 gram time. The roasts were OK but did not=
 taste quite as> > bright.> >> >> >> > Done over 500 300g+ batches> > > the=
 last 3 months! Albeit via CCR Hottops. (Most ~330g batches in the 17> > to=
<Snip>
also> > > running 126v full load voltage to help compensate for combination=
 large> > > batches and cool ambient:-)> > >> > > The biggest weakness I se=
e with the P is inability to change parameters or> > > go manual mid-roast.=
 The biggest weakness I see with the B is only being> > > able to save 3 pr=
ofiles. Beauty of the CCR unlimited profiles, ability to> > > modify profil=
e segments during roast or go manual control at any time and> > a> > > bigg=
y; monitoring both drum environment temp and bean mass temp with fast> > > =
responding TC's. Of course neither P or B "stock" models cost near as much>=
 > > as the CCR HT when it was available...> >> > I agree on both of your p=
oints on the B and P. With my limited experience,> > I have already changed=
 profiles on the fly several times. I only left it> > alone once, on my fin=
al profile test. BTW - I plotted the temperatures at> > intervals during th=
e roast and they were within a couple degrees from roast> > to roast with t=
he same profile, except for the cold start roast. It still> > heats faster =
on the first roast like it always did. From now on, I am going> > to run a =
partial cycle empty first to stabilize the machine before roasting.> >> >> =
<Snip>
ing over> > > greater profile capacity.> >> > Like I said in a previous pos=
t, upgrading to the B and then the P costs the> > same as upgrading directl=
y to the P so I had nothing to lose by trying this> > step and I may end up=
 staying here.> >> > >> > > If I was to choose between a Hottop B and a Beh=
mor it would be a HT B for> > > it's much greater roast profile control.> >=
<Snip>
hat> > would basically do the same as the one iI had.> >> > Mike Chester> >=
<Snip>> homeroast mailing list> h=
ttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast> To change your pers=
onal list settings (digest options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go tohttp://s=weetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your HotmailŪ-get yo=
ur "fix".http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx=

9) From: Cameron Forde
Hi Robert,
The Hottop uses a resistive heater like a stove or oven element.  The
smoke handling is limited to a paper filter at the back and a carbon
filter on the top (both replaceable).  The Hottop is pretty smokey
especially if one roasts past second crack.  SM quotes shipping weight
as 24 lb for Behmore and 30 lb for the Hottop.  Unless you meant
roasting weight, in which case the Hottop roasts 250-300 g per batch
compared with the Behmor 110 - 450 g.
Cameron
On Jan 29, 2008 1:43 PM, Robert Yoder  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
ceforde

10) From: Mike Chester
I tried to send this using HTML so that the chart would come out readable, 
but the file was too large so I am sending it over in plain text.  It might 
be a bit dificult to interpret the table, but we will see.
Cam,
As I said, I only upgraded to The B a little over a week ago, so my 
experience is limited.  I roasted four different beans yesterday using 
slight variations of my profile and today I tasted three of them.  They 
taste really good - better than they used to taste at this point.  the 
profile I came up to start is below.  Keep in mind that the temperatures 
listed are from the HT readout and the sensor is on the back wall, not in 
the bean mass.  It takes time for the heat to make it back to the sensor, so 
a delay must be included when figuring the profile.  Once you get it set, 
however, it is consistent.  Since the B uses a count down timer, that is the 
way I show the profile.
The initial settings are 18:30 time and 422 target temperature.  It does not 
get that high, but setting it there insures that the beans won't eject 
unexpectedly.  They automatically eject when the time runs out or the target 
temp is reached.
Remaining Time                Heater Setting                    Fan Setting 
Temperature
     18:30                                    100% 
0                                167  (bean drop)
      17:30                                     70% 
0                                160
      16:00                                     70% 
3                                 180
      15:30                                     60% 
0                                  188
       14:00                                    70% 
0                                  220
        13:30                                   50% 
0                                  228
         10:30                                  60% 
0                                  282
           9:00                                  70% 
1                                   300
           7:30                                  80% 
1                                   313
           6:30                                  90% 
1                                  324
           5:00                                   90% 
3                                  344
           4:00                                  90% 
4                                  360
           3:30                                  30% 
4                                  370
           2:00                                  50% 
4                                  380
           EOR                                   0% 
4                                  385
This was the profile I used on roasts 3 and 4 yesterday.
3 was a Rwanda Kinunu Bourbon  FC  Couple of snaps of second
4 was Purple Mountain Kona  C+  no second cracks,  4.5 minutes from start of 
1st to EOR
Roast 2 was Sumatra Lintong Special Prep. with the settings slightly 
different.  I had to eject with about 1:30 left as it was into second crack.
The B requires a little more work to enter a profile as you need to watch it 
constantly and adjust accordingly.  With only 3 memory slots, I hope to put 
in 3 very different profiles and use the eject button to effectively give me 
more.
The upgrade procedure requires some mechanical and electrical abilities, 
though the instructions are very good and complete.  They recommend putting 
wire numbers on the wires during disassembly and I highly agree.  It makes 
putting it together much easier.
I hope that this is helpful.
Mike Chester

11) From: Robert Yoder
Thanks, Cameron!
 
robert> From: ceforde> To: homeroast> Subje=
ct: Re: +Adventure with Hottop B> Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 14:24:15 -0800> > =
Hi Robert,> > The Hottop uses a resistive heater like a stove or oven eleme=
nt. The> smoke handling is limited to a paper filter at the back and a carb=
on> filter on the top (both replaceable). The Hottop is pretty smokey> espe=
cially if one roasts past second crack. SM quotes shipping weight> as 24 lb=
 for Behmore and 30 lb for the Hottop. Unless you meant> roasting weight, i=
n which case the Hottop roasts 250-300 g per batch> compared with the Behmo=
r 110 - 450 g.> > Cameron> > On Jan 29, 2008 1:43 PM, Robert Yoder  wrote:> >> >> > What is the heat source in the Hottops? I=
s it radiant like the Behmor? How> > do they handle smoke? How does their w=
eight compare to the Behmor?> >> > Happy Roasting!> >> > Robert Yoder> > > =
From: ceforde> >> > > To: homeroast> > > Su=
bject: Re: +Adventure with Hottop B> > > Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 11:58:20 -0=
800> >> >> > >> > > Hi Mike and Michael,> > >> > > I'm liking the idea of u=
pgrading my Hottop the more I hear. I'd be> > > interested in seeing any pr=
ofiles you would care to share, or tips in> > > getting started.> > >> > > =
Cameron> > >> > > On Jan 29, 2008 6:46 AM, Mike Chester =
 wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >

12) From: Cameron Forde
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the profile.  I have to admit that I'm a little unclear on
how one enters a profile.  Is each line in the table a setpoint for
the profile?  How many time/temps can one program?
Thanks,
Cameron
On Jan 29, 2008 3:07 PM, Mike Chester  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
ceforde

13) From: Mike Chester

14) From: Cameron Forde
Hi Mike,
Thanks for explaining the way the B works.  It is all much clearer
now.  I can see that having three quite different profiles in memory
would give you quite a lot of flexibility as you could adjust the
profile on the fly.
I wonder if I can use "I'm saving so much money by roasting coffee
that it makes sense to spend the money on the upgrade."  That one
worked pretty well for buying the S1 and Mazzer mini.
Cameron
On Jan 30, 2008 6:38 AM, Mike Chester  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
ceforde

15) From: DJ Garcia
In the P model, you can change the segment temperature on the fly, but not
the fan or segment time. You can like in the other models add time at the
end.


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