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Topic: Starbuckerer's chiding (37 msgs / 683 lines)
1) From: Tom Ulmer
Okay now, grassy, undone Columbian or tales from the evil siren?

2) From: Jarred Vallozzi
Can we back off the negative starbucks dialog.  We all agree their coffee
leaves a lot to be desired, and so does miller lite, coca-cola, mcdonalds,
MTV, and every other product pop culture daily consumes.  We, the list,
exist to encourage productive discussion leading to the discover of truth.
I know char-bashing is done in jest, but every time such a comment is made,
a little picture of an up-turned nose poking over a cup of espresso comes to
mind.  I don't think we want to run anyone off because the best coffee they
could find prior to roasting was starbucks (which they thoroughly enjoyed).
-Jarred
On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 3:16 PM, Tom Ulmer  wrote:
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3) From: Aaron Scholten
Naah... we'll never get off the poking at  charbucks.   It's too fun, 
and if someone is sooooo sensitive that they'd run screaming and wetting 
themselves because of a charbucks comment... well..... that's their 
problem...
There's always mail filters too, you can put peoples names into it and 
not see what they send, unless of course, someone else insists on 
cutting and pasting everything to date into a topic reply before adding 
their comments....
 self empowerment.. wow what a concept.
Aaron
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4) From: miKe mcKoffee
Indeed no more flaming Charbucks, stick to Foulgers instead:-) But wait,
what about Seattle's Worst coming under the Mermaid's flipper? Or the Green
Weenie's take over of Sully's? Or swooping up formerly Diedrich owned Coffee
Pooper?  No, I'll not mention *$ as Poseidon's hand maiden ruthlessly
spreads coffee mediocrity.
It's a war out there don't you know. Damn the portafilters! Full steam
ahead!
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
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5) From: Brett Mason
Oh dear.  This is truly a serious conundrum... (learned that in my public
edumacation)
So my sister in law's friend had a really nice tasting white mocha frap.
What coffee should I roast so I can match that flavor?
Doesn't Sweet Maria's offer this?
No flames - no char.
And now,no bucks either....
  Brett
On 2/20/08, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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6) From: b cook
I suggest 8oz of Goo Goo Muck with a lb of white chocolate chips mixed in
preroast.
brad
On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 4:28 PM, Brett Mason  wrote:
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7) From: Jarred Vallozzi
...so I was wrong.  proceed.
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8) From: Jarred Vallozzi
at least you guys put some thought into those.  they were so good I went
back and read them again.
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9) From: miKe mcKoffee
Goo Goo Muck goo goo schmuk.  An espresso based "dessert beverage" like a
white chocolate Frappe begins with good espresso shots, quality milk and
quality white chocolate...ice too of course. Kona shots make devine wc
frappes but Monkey or whatever deep and rich coffee will work just fine:-)
Fill 16oz glass with ice cubes, add milk to 1/2 full, dump in blender, added
3 or 4 TBLS Ghirardeli White Chocolate (powder form not liquid, adjust to
taste), add double shot and blend high speed. Top with homemade whipped
cream if desired. 
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
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10) From: John Despres
Hahahahahahaha!
b cook wrote:
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-- =
John A C Despres
Hug your kids
616.437.9182
Scene It All Productions 
JD’s Coffee Provoked Ramblings =
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11) From: John Brown
what is all the hype about espresso?
begging your pardon i don't think it is worth the extra money.
or effort. i will take a good mug of home roast coffee any day!
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12) From: Joseph Robertson
John,
You have to know Mike. He knows what he is doing here. I have tasted his
creations. I'm also a fan of a good mug of home roast coffee every day here
at home.
JoeR
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13) From: John Brown
i am sure he thinks it is worth the effort but i am not impressed with 
it.  a mug of good coffee in the morning sets the day up right.  i have 
a friend who lives ten miles away some times he will call and wake me to 
say the water is boiling.  i will grab the coffee jar and make over 
there in short order.
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14) From: Scott Miller
And like miKe says here, you just can't make even the most dressed up
dessert frou-frou epsresso based beverage without quality ingredients. I'm
still waiting for someone to explain to me how "any" espresso shot is OK for
use in an iced or blended drink. It's amazing to me what folks working in
some shops will say ... things like "the coffee flavor really comes through"
when they pull a wretched shot and act as though it will be fine for the
drink they are making.
I have a customer I sell a couple blends to who doesn't want to spend an
additional 25 cents per pound for my espresso for just such a reason. He's
willing to admit that mine is excellent, but since most of the drink they
serve are flavored latte type drinks, it doesn't matter... UGH!
cheers,
Scott
On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 7:57 PM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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15) From: Floyd Lozano
If that's what works for you, then by all means!  But for me, it's
like the difference between drinking microbrews and sipping a 16 year
old single malt.  For me, espresso is not an every day thing (for many
it is and God bless them for having the time!) but when I have the
time, a great shot is a very special and tasty treat.  Once you've had
anything approaching a near perfect shot, with silky smooth sweet
crema and a lingering aftertaste that leaves you stunned that such
flavors could ever be coaxed out of a coffee bean, it's difficult to
not want that all the time!
-F
On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 2:08 AM, John Brown  wrote:
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16) From: Brett Mason
I don't regret putting my Nuovo Simonelli Oscar in my kitchen.  I enjoy the
espressos, like I enjoy my vacpots, presspots, mokkapots, presses French and
Aero, SG1C, etc.
I enjoy playing with latte art too - but mine still are weak at best....
Brett
On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 7:02 AM, Floyd Lozano  wrote:
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17) From: miKe mcKoffee
Mr Brown, you've obviously not had 'good' espresso or espresso based
beverages. Espresso extraction gets flavors not possible any other method of
extraction. Espresso extraction is the purest essence of the bean. Not what
I think, what many hundreds nay thousands of professionals and home
enthusiasts "think", both from empirical and scientific points of view.
Espresso is not a roast. Espresso is not a particular bean. 
Typed drinking first cup "espresso" based Americano home roasted Panama
Esmerelda Gesha. Not exactly a cup to be scoffed at.
Effort? Takes me about a minute and a half to make an Americano before my
eyes can even focus in the morning. And that includes re-vac sealing the
selected mason jar of beans.
Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
www.mcKonaKoffee.com
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
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18) From: Joseph Robertson
Brett,
You have the beginnings of a great museum. A working museum. A tasting
museum.
I can't wait to visit you,
JoeR
On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 5:06 AM, Brett Mason  wrote:
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19) From: Brett Mason
As Bob Barker says,
 "Come On Down!"
Door's open, and the guest room ("Ginny's Room" by name) is always ready....
Brett
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20) From: Floyd Lozano
I have a Gaggia Evolution, but it takes about 10 min to get to temp,
another minute or 2 of flushing to get temp right (which for me is
mostly guess, flush til the light goes off, wait til on, count to 10,
push button and pray!).  Let's just say to get to the point you are
takes effort and maybe a little cash, but it's definitely worth it for
the flavor once you nail it down!
-F
On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 8:34 AM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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21) From: Allon Stern
On Feb 20, 2008, at 7:57 PM, miKe mcKoffee wrote:
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Hear hear!
I've heard folks say that mixing drinks with single malt whiskey is a  
waste of single malt. Hogwash! It makes REALLY GOOD mixed drinks.
That said, I do enjoy a nice MacCallans 12. Much better than the 10,  
much more affordable than the 30 :)
Hm, complete the progression:
Laphroaig is to whiskey what Lapsang Souchong is to tea what is to coffee.
(I happen to like Laphroaig and Lapsang Souchong, so I'm curoius what  
coffees might show up here :)
-
allon
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22) From: Brett Mason
Folgers?  SOmething special in your cup....
Brett
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23) From: John Brown
now you are talking!
first drank Laphroaig in Scotland. along with MacEwens India Pale Ale.
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24) From: Larry Johnson
Laphroaig is yummy, but my favorite (that I've tried so far) of the
Islays is Caol Ila.
On 2/21/08, John Brown  wrote:
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25) From: b cook
Love my espresso and I don't have tons of time.  I do wake up a little
earlier but every morning I make my wife an americano and myself either a
straight shot, a macchiato or a cappuccino.  Total time for prep and cleanup
is 15minutes.
brad
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26) From: Brett Mason
Came home from Engineering night at the Cedar Rapids Science Center, and
decided to find out...
4 minutes was from 0 to cappuccino, including machine cleanup, grouphead
scrub, drip tray emptying and puck knocking....
That works for me, although I thought it would be only 3 minutes...
That's faster than my aeropress, presspot, swissgold one cup, mokkapot,
vacpot or drip.
Helps that Oscar is always on....
Brett
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27) From: Bill
In timed it this morning... I heat a bit over 1 L (maybe 34, 35 oz) water in
an electric kettle, preheat presspot, grind bean, empty presspot, deposit
grinds, fill with water, swirl at 1 min, press at 2, enjoy... total time, 10
minutes.  takes that electric kettle a while to heat up... so brett, you
beat me hands down!
of course, i nuke my 12 grain hot cereal and re-fill the 1L plastic bottle,
so it's not like I'm twiddling my thumbs.
bill
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28) From: Brett Mason
Lessons learned:
Coffee takes time...
Longer if you have to heat the water...
Longer still if you have to heat your machine from cold...
Longer still if you have to roast the coffee...
Even longer yet if you have to plant a coffee farm...
Very quick if you speak the word coffee, and it is so!
But we don't usually get that last choice - was done only once....
Espresso with a top end machine goes very quick.
It's not an "espresso" issue, it's an equipage issue...
Brett
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29) From: Bill
My Freshie takes 3-4 minutes for any roast (altitude!), and 2 min to cool...
so it doesn't NECESSARILY take longer to roast coffee than it does for me to
boil water and preheat presspot... which is kinda sad when you think about
it...bill
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30) From: Bob Hazen
Oh mannnn...  I dearly love Islay whisky!  Someday I will visit Islay; and 
probably stay there.  Laphroaig and Lagavulin are my favorites.  Certain 
Bowmore bottlings are good too.  The most memorable was a 30yr Bowmore I 
tasted one time.  Personally, I agree malt whisky mixed with anything other 
than maybe a bit of water is a waste.  However, if you're into mixed drinks, 
I bet they're certainly better with single malt!
IMHO:  Laphroaig is to whiskey what Lapsang Souchong is to tea what _HORSE_ 
is to coffee.
No question in my mind.
Bob
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31) From: John Brown
well i have been known to dilute my Laphroaig with some fine coffee
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32) From: Bob Hazen
Now that's an idea!  I don't know if I'd mix them, but I'll have to try 
Laphroaig with a coffee chaser.  Or would that be coffee with a Laphroaig 
chaser?  I guess it depends on whether it's morning or evening, eh?
Life is too short for blended whisky or bad coffee.
Bob

33) From: Paul Helbert
My brother (who says all coffee tastes the same to him) says coffee mates
best with Yukon Jack.
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34) From: Tom Ulmer
Conjures an image of chasing No Doze with paregoric.

35) From: Paul Helbert
Paregoric. Oh my. Scary how good that stuff tastes. Almost worth the
diarrhea.
Wonder why we don't see that in any of Tom's descriptions:
*At City+ roast this cup has a bright, lively tea-like floral note, a tad of
jasmine, cooked carrots and bergamot with hint of paregoric, oily body and
aftertaste of an Oklahoma dust storm.
*
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36) From: Jim Carter
I only have one goric at the moment. Looking forward to the day when I 
have a pair of them.
-- Jim Carter
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37) From: raymanowen
"...what is all the hype about espresso?"
My very words, a few years ago.
A friend of mine was starting her coffee shop/ jazz venue in '96 and asked
me if I'd ever had an espresso drink-
"No, I assumed it was just fodder for wannabe Yuppie aficionados." I just
liked her good? Daz Bog coffee with cream and honey. She didn't roast, and
it never occurred to me that there was any connection between good- or even
fresh- roasting and excellent coffee. DB may have been good whenecer it was
roasted, but their interest in Carole terminated on receipt of funds.
The Bottom Line for me is that there are many brewing and grinding
combinations that can emphasize different flavors from the same origin
coffee bean. That first espresso shot definitely didn't have me awaiting my
second straight shot.
Such is no longer the case, ever since I determined to prove to myself that
my best efforts at espresso brewing would reduce a potentially good coffee
bean to absolute dreckig Scheiße.
A drip brew can be improved big time, but it ceases to be convenient, just
phenomenal.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 11:43 PM, John Brown  wrote:
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