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Topic: Double Grinding Coffee for Espresso (19 msgs / 464 lines)
1) From: sci
Okay, I've been doing espresso at home for years, but I'm starting to get
serious about it since I love straight espresso.
I have a question for the die-hard espresso fanatics.
I don't have a high end grinder, but it is a burr grinder.
If I set it at its finest grind and then take the ground coffee and run it
though the grinder a second time, I get a very fine even grind that seems to
work better than a single grind. Is this crazy or is it a good idea?
Now I know the purists are going to tell me to go buy a Mazzer Mini or a R.
Rocky, but I can't afford that yet.
Thanks,
Scizen
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2) From: Sandy Andina
I seem to recall reading that if you run ground coffee through a burr  
grinder you could harm the grinder.
Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
On Mar 6, 2008, at 9:30 PM, sci wrote:
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3) From: Allon Stern
On Mar 6, 2008, at 10:30 PM, sci wrote:
<Snip>
Is it really a burr grinder, or does it just look like one (false  
burrs).
<Snip>
A real burr grinder may get clogged up if you attempt regrinding; the  
coffee is ejected by centrifugal force through itty bitty openings.
A false burr grinder uses knobs which crush the beans. Don't know if  
it would crush it smaller a 2nd time around, but you'd likely get a  
lot of fines.
Seehttp://www.home-barista.com/espresso-guide-grinders.htmlYou don't have to spend a ton of money to get a good grinder, if  
you're willing to buy a used commercial grinder (make sure to replace  
the burrs). If you keep a watch on ebay, you can find good deals; you  
may even find one at a pawn shop or thrift shop, if you're lucky.
-
allon
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4) From: Brett Mason
Sci, I am not sure, but if you pump hot water through it, you get a hot
brown liquid...   My experience is that not all hot brown liquids are good
for you....
What's a tank of gas cost for your car?
You could just buy Illy - Tom carries it...
Brett
On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 9:30 PM, sci  wrote:
<Snip>
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5) From: Bill
why not buy a zass?  i've heard they do fine for espresso... bill
On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 9:36 PM, Brett Mason  wrote:
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6) From: Dave Kvindlog
On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:50 PM, Bill  wrote:
<Snip>
Hey!  That's Brett's line!!!  Wonder why you were able to beat him to the
punch.  Still...it's the best suggestion you could make.  Zass grinders are
clearly affordable and will produce high quality, espresso ready, grounds
every time.
-- 
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7) From: Brett Mason
If you want good coffee, you save some money and buy what it takes to make
good coffee.
If you want coffee for less, you cut corners until you get what you want at
the price point you want it.
There are myriad ways of getting incredible coffee from very little
investment, such as:
 Popper - $5
 Colander and wooden spoon - $5
 French Press - $20
 Zass $50
That's $80 to be in the game with equipment that will work for a long time,
and deliver top notch results...  Sci, you probably already have some of the
equipment you'll need.
What's holding you back?
Brett
On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:56 PM, Dave Kvindlog  wrote:
<Snip>
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8) From: Dean De Crisce
I had a 50 buck la pavoni for a few years. Its lowest setting was not fine enough. I called the distributor who walked me through the simple process of realigning the burr plates to get a finer grind. It worked and may work for you without getting new equipment. Now got a rocky, much more consistent grind.
Dean De Crisce

9) From: MSMB
I have tried this with my Maestro Classic and it can cause it to clog up.

10) From: Gary Foster
I'd like to add my "I wouldn't do that" to this thread.  You should 
really never double grind in a burr grinder, you're asking for problems. 
  You can clog up and damage your grinder.
I don't necessarily think you need a Rocky or equivalent to grind finely 
enough, you should be able to pick up a grinder capable of a good 
espresso grind for significantly less.  I would imagine you could 
probably find something quite acceptable for under $100 but I don't 
really know for sure (since I have a rocky, heh).
-- Gary F.
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11) From: Brett Mason
Buy a hammer, a brick, a dustpan and a whisk broom.
Maybe $30 all told.
Put the beans on a brick, pound with hammer, sweep up and load your brewer.
You can save plenty of money this way.
Brett
On 3/7/08, Gary Foster  wrote:
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12) From: Brett Mason
The Grinder is the most important factor, after good beans.
Like speakers with a stereo - your music cannot overcome bad speakers.
Grinder is the single gateway from bean to brew, so get a good one...
Brett
On 3/7/08, Brett Mason  wrote:
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13) From: Larry Johnson
Brett's right; that's the way I do it.
On 3/7/08, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>
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14) From: sci
Brett
Do you know where I can get a decent Zass for about $50? I'm searching on
ebay, but the auction prices exceed that so far with the one's  on which I
have bid. So, I'm thinking of just getting a new unit straight from SM up
around $80. Anyway, jus thought I'd ask since you and others on this list
think the Zass is the magic solution to grinding problems.
Oh yes, I did check somebody's link to homebarista's page on grinders. Looks
like I got suckered into buying a fake "burr" grinder that uses "knobs"
instead of genuine burrs. Oh well, who the hell really knows what a damn
burr is anyway? Do I have a burr in my saddle or what?
THanks
Scizen
Message: 30
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 23:02:44 -0600
From: "Brett Mason" 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Double Grinding Coffee for Espresso
To: homeroast
Message-ID:
       <1782fc170803062102q288be49bo7f3c898733cb6bc8>
Content-Type: text/plain; charsetO-8859-1
If you want good coffee, you save some money and buy what it takes to make
good coffee.
If you want coffee for less, you cut corners until you get what you want at
the price point you want it.
There are myriad ways of getting incredible coffee from very little
investment, such as:
 Popper - $5
 Colander and wooden spoon - $5
 French Press - $20
 Zass $50
That's $80 to be in the game with equipment that will work for a long time,
and deliver top notch results...  Sci, you probably already have some of the
equipment you'll need.
What's holding you back?
Brett
On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:56 PM, Dave Kvindlog  wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.com<Snip>
--
Cheers,
Brett
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15) From: Allon Stern
On Mar 8, 2008, at 12:47 AM, sci wrote:
<Snip>
The Zass is not the magic solution to grinding problems.
It is, however, the most cost effective way to get an exceptional  
grind. A major trade off is convenience - you have to crank the  
sucker. On the other hand, you can't plug in your Mazzer in the  
backwoods.
I'm considering a Zass for myself, largely for travel use.
Anyone care to comment on the differences between the Turkish mill  
and the box/knee mills in terms of quality of grind (I'm assuming  
there is no difference) and level of effort/comfort (I'm assuming  
there is a great difference here).  The knob is metal, not wood, and  
much smaller - I'm wondering if I would hate the ergonomics of it  
that much, or if I would be willing to suffer for the portability.
<Snip>
Definitions of burr aside, what you have is more of a crusher than a  
cutter. What we want is an adjustable, even particle size with  
minimal heating of the beans. There are many different means of  
achieving this, with different tradeoffs and results. A "fake burr"  
grinder, such as you have does an okay job for many tasks, but for  
espresso, forget it. Espresso is a brewing method that is extremely  
sensitive to the gind.
-
allon
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16) From: Floyd Lozano
it's cheaper if you just buy two  bricks and mash them together.
-F
On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 4:02 PM, Larry Johnson  wrote:
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17) From: Sean Cary
I found the Turkish grinder mildly annoying...but it served me well enough
in Iraq.  It will need some fine tuning now that I am back home.  Mike
Dhabolt made a great suggestion to use a jam nut on the adjusting mechanism
rather then the spring which was useless and let the adjustment go all over
the place.
It had the potential to make a huge variety of grind size, but was
noticeably more consistent if you grind slowly and deliberately...which was
not often the case as I needed to get a cup of coffee before my morning
exploded every day.  It was still much better then a whirly blade, and more
convenient for travel then anything else.
I have been trying to score a knee grinder on eBay but they are going for
more then I care to spend at this time...  (AMEX LOVES me since I got home
- as do Home Depot and Lowes).  I hope to catch a sleeper on eBay one
day...maybe a misspelling, they happen from time to time.
Sean
On Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 6:32 AM, Allon Stern  wrote:
<Snip>
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Sean M. Cary
Major USMC
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18) From: Brett Mason
Floyd,
I know I should upgrade to two bricks, but that's when I can afford
something.  I've been reading about all these superautomatagrinders, and
italigrinders, etc.  Two bricks?  Come on, your standards are way too high.
Be real - I need something now...
Brett
On Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 7:52 AM, Floyd Lozano  wrote:
<Snip>
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19) From: Brett Mason
Here's one:http://cgi.ebay.com/Alte-Kaffeemuehle-Zassenhaus-R-G_W0QQitemZ220208161147QQihZ012QQcategoryZ19358QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem18 hours left
will need to hit the top of the lid with some polish to shine it up, but
this is likely a tremendous catch.  Ask the Seller for worldwide shipping,
and use Paypal to make it easier....
And another:http://cgi.ebay.com/Zassenhaus-Kaffeemuehle-Mokkamuehle-500-coffee-grinder_W0QQitemZ200203560552QQihZ010QQcategoryZ19358QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemI like this one too - look at the pictures - the inside hopper is CLEAN and
nice....  I am looking for one of these dual-door models...  And they take
Pappal - shipping should come in around $25
So I search for Zassenhaus, I click the Worldwide check box, and the items
with Paypal checkbox....
Let me know if you need more ideas,
Brett
On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 11:47 PM, sci  wrote:
<Snip>
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Cheers,
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