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Topic: Newby Question (33 msgs / 938 lines)
1) From: Bill Allison
I am sure that these questions have been asked before, so if there is an
archive I should be searching before posting here, please direct me to it.
I am new to coffee roasting.  I purchased a FreshRoast and a Hearthware
grinder.  I figured that I would spend just a little to test the waters and
determine whether this is something I want to do.  I did and it is.
However, it is clear that this equipment just won't take me where I want to
go.  The grinder is practically incapable of giving me anything but a very
fine, almost espresso grind.  I have to roast outside in the garage for fear
of setting off the smoke detector, and this little roaster will  not keep up
if the ambient temp is much below a comfortable level.  I have not been able
to get any beans to second crack.
So, I want to upgrade, but I don't know where to start.  I want to spend
about $500 now, that won't raise my spouse's eyebrows.  Every few months I
will likely be able to part with similar amounts.
I obviously cannot get everything I need right now, so it is important to
get the sequencing right.  My first inclination is to get a good roaster,
but I don't know if that is the best place to start, or with a grinder, and
which of the various models I should consider.  I have read many posts over
the last week or so, and it seems that the Rancilio Rocky and the Mazzer
Mini are the grinders of choice.  I am not as clear about the roasters,
though I have noted that the HotTop garners a fair amount of praise.
I will certainly appreciate any advice; thank you in advance.
Bill Allison
Shreveport, LA
bill
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2) From: Allon Stern
On Mar 11, 2008, at 2:29 PM, Bill Allison wrote:
<Snip>
firstly, welcome!
secondly, when creating a new topic, don't reply to an existing  
thread. It messes up the threading.
thirdly, what is your target brewing method? Are you planning to go  
to the Dark Side (espresso) ? If so, then certainly a grinder that is  
good at espresso is the grinder to get. If you have no interest in  
espresso, then you can get by with a much less expensive grinder that  
will perform well for other brew methods.
Speaking of brew methods, I recommend an Aeropress. It's great for  
making single cups, and I sometimes have several roasts that I sample  
with a cup of each, versus making a big pot in the morning.
If I had $500 to spend every few months, I'd probably:
1st buy a behmor and $100 of coffee to roast
2nd buy a Rocky and $100 of coffee to roast
3rd buy a Silvia and $100 of coffee to roast
If the hearthware grinder you have is the "supremo", then it's  
exactly the same as a melitta ? grinder I have - it generates an  
amazing amount of static, and isn't a real burr grinder - it uses  
"false burrs".
Even so, it's okay for drip. I've been eyeing a Virtuoso to replace  
it. I may have to wait until after I've bought my Silvia and brought  
my current espresso machine (Krups Espresso Novo) home.
Note that any coffee roaster will generate smoke/smells if used  
indoors - due to my lack of decent ventillation in the kitchen, I  
currently use an iRoast2 with vent hose.
-
allon
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3) From: Rich
$500.00 will not buy a HotTop ($720 to 930 at SM).  Behmor is $299.00 
from SM and the customer support is incredible.  Not only that, it will 
actually roast 1 real full pound to Vienna or *$ if you want.  You are 
correct in the general consensus of the best grinder.  That however, is 
based on the assumption that you are going to do espresso.  You only 
need the genuine Italian grinder if you want to do espresso, IMHO.
Bill Allison wrote:
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4) From: Dennis Parham
Bill, I have been here on SM list for about 5 years and have heard  
this come up millions of times.. I used to post all the time but now I  
dont have the time.. however.... the one thing we all agree on as in  
Real Estate is... GRINDER, GRINDER, GRINDER.. no matter how good the  
machine you have is.. its only as good as your grinder.. I have had  
the Rancillio ROCKY and I now have 2 MAZZER Majors and WOW are they  
all sweet!  going with any of these brand grinders will do you very  
well.. the mazzer is more expensive but it has infinite settings...
the Rocky is fantastic if you can deal with a little more plastic and  
better price...  that is my experience with grinders,,, my Mazzers are  
flawless so far for several years... the ROCKY had a few very minor  
issues... one is that it needs ( or can be) modified to clean out  
straggling grounds that do not sweep away in doser.. if I were getting  
a grinder again now.. I think Id consider not getting a doser it is  
not that accurate for just one shot or 2.. and its a pain and needs  
cleaning if you want to represent the best of the best shots...  
Theere... is... No comparison in quality roasts with quality grinder  
and quality machine... I Currently have a FAEMA Compact commercial  
Espresso machine... it is currently down as I am waiting my  
replacement heating element so I can get her working again.... I have  
owned several machines, including a Pasquini Livia and Rancillio  
Silvia... all sweet.. I ever did the PID on the Silvia.... For the  
first time though in all the modded poppery's and poppery II's I have  
made... and all the pages I posted on the Convection oven and popper.  
(that was fun)... I have never used teh dog bowl heat gun method..  
thanks to Gary Towndsend, he convinced me to try it.. and WOW! you can  
take it as far as you want!  Im going to buy a Behmor soon too......  
anyway... you do not have to roast all coffee to black oily French  
Roast or  Vienna.. .. some are better at lower roasts IMO.. even FC++  
anyway.... what kind of Coffee machine will you be using?? tat is also  
a factor. if you want to eventually go to espresso and want save every  
penny possible in transformation... get Grinder first with Dog Bowl  
method heat gun... as it will make great roasts... or if you dont want  
that go with that Behmor.. it is getting great reviews I am seeing...  
and can stay inside! lol Grinder will be your best starting point...  
as IF you decide espresso is the way you want.. you will have the  
correct grinder to go with... an inferior grinder will be waste of  
money if you go espresso... even a cheaper espresso machine will do  
much better with consistent Burrs...  well Good Luck! thats my 2  
cents... well I though in a couple more but who is counting!! hahah
Dennis Parham
On Mar 11, 2008, at 3:23 PM, Rich wrote:
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5) From: Sandy Andina
For $500 you can get a new Behmor ($300) and a Baratza Virtuoso  
($200)--the latter will do even for espresso in a pinch. If you are  
not going to do espresso, the Solis Maestro Plus ($149) will do just  
fine--it's what I use for drip. Even the Bodum Antigua--$65-80--is  
fine, albeit not as sturdy (same burr set as the Solis). Reality  
check--a Hottop will run you at least $500 all by itself for a manual  
model (and I think they're not making the manual one anymore--the  
programmable model is at least $100 if not $200 more).  Rocky's street  
price for a new model is between $280-300 depending on whether you  
want a doser or doserless model.  (I got mine very gently used from a  
fellow CoffeeGeek member for $175). A new Mazzer Mini will set you  
back $500. You could always scour eBay as I did for a Mazzer Mini (I  
got mine, very gently used, from a failed espresso cart for under  
$400).  There are always Mazzer Super Jollys and other large  
commercial espresso grinders available for between $300-400 on eBay,  
but they are humongous even if you forego the hopper; and you never  
know whether you will also need to purchase new burrs, which are a DIY  
job only for the very handy. (I was lucky--my Mini's burrs were nearly  
new and I had enough counter space--with no cabinets above--to be able  
to use the short hopper).
Lest you think I wasted money, all four grinders are in rotation in my  
kitchen:  Antigua for decaf/one-pot-or-cup-at-a-time "special" drip/ 
press/AP beans (i.e., those I save for myself or company), SM+ for  
regular family beans (my husband & son brew at least 2 pots a day, so  
I store the beans in the hopper), Mazzer Mini for regular espresso  
beans (I go through a lb. or more a week, so they get stored in the  
hopper) and Rocky for decaf or single origin espresso.  The Antigua  
and Rocky's hoppers stay empty.  (We won't discuss the inferior pseudo- 
burr grinders I have in my Basement Museum of Failed Espresso Devices,  
purchased before I joined CoffeeGeek and this listserv).
And confession time: I will occasionally travel with a good whirly- 
blade (not necess. an oxymoron) grinder when I need to brew a pot  
rather than a cup at a time.
Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
On Mar 11, 2008, at 1:29 PM, Bill Allison wrote:
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6) From: Allon Stern
On Mar 11, 2008, at 4:00 PM, Sandy Andina wrote:
<Snip>
Wha?! Burr replacement on my $99 pawnshop special Rossi RR45 was  
easier than scraping off all the years of goo. 3 screws on each burr,  
off, and on. What's hard about that?
Changing burrs is no harder than changing your oil - and it's  
something you should do occasionally (depending on use) anyway.
-
allon
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7) From: Sandy Andina
Believe it or not, some (very many) of us not only don't relish  
dismantling an electrical appliance--however minimally you feel it may  
be--but don't even crawl under our cars to change our own oil (I did,  
as well as do my own tuneups, in my young-and-limber days, but not  
now).  God gave us Jiffy Lube (or in my case, the mechanic around the  
corner) for a reason.
Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
On Mar 11, 2008, at 3:09 PM, Allon Stern wrote:
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8) From: Dennis Parham
yeah I agree!.. one of the easiest burrs to replace! even easier that  
ROCKY!!!  the Mazzers are fantastic! 3 screws top and bottom and BAM  
your in service!  dialing it is is a cinch too!
Dennis Parham
On Mar 11, 2008, at 4:09 PM, Allon Stern wrote:
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9) From: Bill
Another Bill... great!  Welcome to the list!  As you see, lots of opinions
and help!
But yeah, a big question is what method are you brewing?  What method do you
want to brew?  If you do espresso or will do espresso, you gotta go for the
grinder.
I would recommend 2 roasters.  The Behmor for 300 bucks has everyone on the
list happy.  It has a smoke suppression so you can use it inside.  I
personally use a heat gun and dog bowl.  You can buy a $30 HG, or go for a
more pricey one.  I bought one for 80 with a 5-year warranty.  A used SS
bowl, the whole setup for under 100 bucks.
checkhttp://coffeecrone.com/roasting/breadmachine.htmfor HG info.">http://homeroaster.com/heatgun.htmlorhttp://coffeecrone.com/roasting/breadmachine.htmfor HG info.
My personal setup: a HG/DB roaster, a Solis maestro Plus, and a French
Press.  Everything works just fine for me.
Oh, by the way, if you're having trouble getting your Freshie to 2nd, you
can do 2 things: 1. increase the amt of beans which will increase
resistance.  2.  do a mod on ithttp://www.sweetmarias.com/freshroast_fan_adjustment.htmlI started with a Freshie to get my feet wet.  Glad I did.  And glad that I
use a HG now.  by the way, you can do a pound or 2 with a HG fairly easy.
 If you want 4 pound batches, you're looking at an RK drum.
HTH
bill
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 12:29 PM, Bill Allison  wrote:
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10) From: Allon Stern
Maybe changing oil was the wrong analogy-
Replacing burrs is marginally more difficult than changing a light bulb.
-
allon
On Mar 11, 2008, at 4:17 PM, Sandy Andina  wrote:
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11) From: Barry Dryden
Bill,
I bought a used Mazzer Super Jolly grinder on eBay for $170 and then
put brand new burrs in it.
That's economical and practical for a modest budget.  Personally I
love espresso and the grinder was my #1 priority as I had a Saeco
Aroma espresso maker that I got for $130 on eBay (demo unit, it works
perfectly!).
Best luck to you,
Barry
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12) From: Dean De Crisce
I have the rocky doserless and the behmor....very happy with the combo. Behmor is great...easy to use.  Rocky dosersless is cool but some annoying things: the forks don't fit my portafilter...so I took em off...but I have to stand there with one hand holding the filter and the other on the button. I feel it is a minor, liveable annoyance.
Dean De Crisce

13) From: Dean De Crisce
I have the rocky doserless and the behmor....very happy with the combo. Behmor is great...easy to use.  Rocky dosersless is cool but some annoying things: the forks don't fit my portafilter...so I took em off...but I have to stand there with one hand holding the filter and the other on the button. I feel it is a minor, liveable annoyance.
Dean De Crisce

14) From:
I roast in a fresh roast under a stove hood in my kitchen, it does pretty ok
smoke and smell wise, I grind in a Gaggia mdf and brew in a French press and
Gaggia coffee for espresso.  I am quite happy with my over all set up.  You
just gotta do what works for you, but I will echo what many others have said
make your first investment a good grinder.
Happy roasting,
David
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15) From: Ken Knott
All these responses and no votes for the GeneCafe???  Where has the love go=
ne???
Ok, I got mine about a month ago.  It's taken me about 5 roasts, but I'm fi=
nally getting the hang of it.  And it's amazing.
One big vote for the GeneCafe.
I bought an Infinity Capresso from amazon.  It's not fancy schmancy...  And=
 it's not intended for espresso I don't think, but for coffee it's perfectl=
y fine.
For brewing - French Press...
And the GeneCafe will come with an 8lb sampler.  Plenty for a month at leas=
t....
Go GC!
Ken
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16) From: Barry Luterman
Not livable easily fixable for about 12.88 replace existing prawl switch
with part MR_188. takes about 5 min and is an easy fix. Makes Rocky a two
handed machine.http://www.espressoparts.com/results.cgis?catalog=&selectME&keywords=rockyOn Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 2:16 PM, Dean De Crisce 
wrote:
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17) From: Dean De Crisce
Ill give it a try, thanks. I am mechanically but not electrically inclined...ill hope for the best.
Dean De Crisce

18) From: Barry Luterman
I am famous on the list for being a klutz. My claim to fame is that  when my
car makes a funny noise; I fix the car by making my radio louder.
This is all there is to it:
1 Unplug Rocky
2. With a small blade screwdriver wrapped in a rag gently pry the old switch
out
3. Note there are 3 wires attached to the switch with blade type connectors.
One on the top 2 on bottom
4. Mark the wires.
5 Disconnect the 3 wires
6 Connect the 3 wires back onto the new switch
7 Press the switch back into the case.
8 Turn on Rocky
9 Jump into air 3 times screaming I did it. Now I have a 2 handed machine.
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Dean De Crisce 
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19) From: Brett Mason
Which Switch did you get for replacement?
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Barry Luterman  wrote:
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20) From: Coffee
I'm a big Gene Cafe fan too. It is totally flexible and infinitely  
adjustable. I've done 23 roasts so far and I'm beginning to get to the  
point where I feel I can start learning from the experts on this list.
So, another vote for the Gene Cafe.
And get a cheap whirley-blade grinder to hold you til the next budget  
meeting.
-Peter
On Mar 11, 2008, at 6:55 PM, Ken Knott wrote:
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21) From: Barry Luterman
The MR_188. It is the same switch that is in the rear right of the machine .
The switch is a simple on off switch and not spring loaded. It fits
perfectly into the lumen of the spring loaded switch.
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 5:00 PM, Brett Mason  wrote:
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22) From: Dean De Crisce
Hey that's great!! Thanks....yay...i believe I can follow the excellent directions. Doesn't seem so bad.
Dean De Crisce

23) From: kevin creason
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 8:55 PM, Ken Knott  wrote:
<Snip>
It'll do great espresso. I have mine set on 3 up from finest for my
bottomless portafilter on a Barista machine (Saeco). I'm making the best
shots I've had except for those couple of visits to Catalina Coffee downtown
Houston. And only a hundred bucks. As you can tell from my equipment I'm
budget espresso but still cranking out quality with a bit of work and
attention to detail. My unit is a year old, so about fifty-sixty pounds run
through it....
-- 
-Kevin
/* Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you
with experience. */
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24) From: Dean De Crisce
Hey that's great!! Thanks....yay...i believe I can follow the excellent directions. Doesn't seem so bad.
Dean De Crisce

25) From: John Despres
Bill,
You have a good little roaster right now so spend your current cash on a =
good grinder. I started with the FR8 and bumped to the Gene Cafe, an =
awesome little roaster with total and 100% over every stage of the roast.
After you've got your good grinder and are ready for your next roaster, =
come back to the list with *that* question. The the responses will =
really fly.
John
Bill Allison wrote:
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up
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e.com
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-- =
John A C Despres
Hug your kids
616.437.9182
Scene It All Productions 
JDs Coffee Provoked Ramblings =
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26) From: Bill Allison
1st.  Thanks for the advice; I was not aware of the new topic issue.  I will
heed the advice in the future.
Thanks for the other advice, too.  I do like espresso, but I don't think I
am ready for that at this point.  I want to learn to roast, grind and brew a
really good cup of coffee before I attempt to learn to draw a good espresso.
As to brew methods, I have used a French press for several years.  I have a
one cup size and one that is allegedly 32 ounces, but in reality brews
approximately 2 regular sized mugs of coffee.  I am not familiar with
Aeropress, but will Google it shortly.
The Behmor sounds like a good idea.  Will it really roast a whole pound of
coffee beans in one batch?
Although the Supremo may be OK for drip, there is just too much sediment in
the bottom of the cup when using a French Press.
Thanks again for your help

27) From: Brett Mason
Grind morre coarse and you won't have the sediment in your french
press...  Grind a lot more coarse and you will have an amazingly sweet
cup of coffee...
Grind in a Zass, and use GMail for topic threading,a nd you have a
fantastic solution...
Brett
On 3/12/08, Bill Allison  wrote:
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28) From: Rich
I roast NOTHING but full pounds in my Behmor.  I have run it up to 18.x 
oz by accident and it works fine.
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29) From: Michael Mccandless
Or . . .
you can use this one
Cherrycorp
Can be found herefor
$0.94 + shipping.
Mouser shipping I find to be very reeasonable.
McSparky
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30) From: Brett Mason
Nice recommendation!
Three days later it is ordered, arrived, and installed.  I did open up the
port-hole with a dremel, as the switch was just a hair larger than the
rectangular hole.  Looks awesome, works great!
Thanks Mike for the pointer - cost me under $7 shipped, and saved lots of
time!
Regards,
Brett
On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 7:33 PM, Michael Mccandless 
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31) From: Michael Mccandless
Mine should be here tomorrow.
For the $7.00 shipping, we should have gotten a couple dozen & offered to
the list @ cost+ the cost of a couple of stamps.
McSparky
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32) From: Brett Mason
I used a file and a dremel grinder to enlarge the opening for the switch.
It's about 1mm too narrow.  Work with care and you'll have no problem...
Brett
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33) From: raymanowen
"...any coffee roaster will generate smoke/smells if used
indoors"
1.) any coffee roaster will generate smoke/odors if used
outdoors.
"...a grinder that is good at espresso is the grinder to get.
If you have no interest in espresso, then you can get by with a much less
expensive grinder that will perform well for other brew methods."
2.) Get a good grinder and note that it does an excellent job, whatever the
setting. A POS is a POS is a POS is a POS is a POS...
Try explaining your "good enough" and "get by" attitude to a potential
customer of your virtual coffee shop.
Was that your mechanic's attitude, last time he worked on your car or the
next airplane you'll be boarding?
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Tell your surgeon "Good Enough is Good Enough. It'll do."
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