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Topic: beginner roasting problem (21 msgs / 426 lines)
1) From: GMAIL MARIJN
Hello,
I am a beginner in home roasting. I got hold of a princess hot air  
popper to roast with.
So i started the machine with the amount of beans you would normally  
use with popcorn. But after 4 minutes I didn't hear a single crack.  
After 7 minutes I stopped roasting.
The beans where darker and looked roasted but the coffee i made from  
it doesn't taste that good at all (i am drinking it right now). So my  
guess is that the problem is in the roasting,
how does coffee taste when it hasn't gone through the first or second  
crack?
And how audible is the first crack? maybe I just didn't hear it  
because of the noise from the machine, is that possible?
thanks in advance,
Marijn
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2) From: Sandy Andina
First of all, be patient--even a perfect roast needs at least a day to  
rest before it's outgassed enough to be drinkable.  Second, I don't  
roast with an air popper but you may need to use fewer beans so that  
they circulate and heat up adequately. Third, if you are roasting  
regular and not decaf and do not see chaff, you haven't hit first  
crack.   Poppers do make a lot of noise.  First crack should sound  
like a cross between a kernel of corn popping and a twig or chewing  
gum snapping.
Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
On Mar 11, 2008, at 4:35 PM, GMAIL MARIJN wrote:
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3) From: gin
Hi and welcome:
there are more folks here with better knowledge on the poppers but my guess would be that you had to much green bean! did you see them jumping around??
seriously the beans need movement. perhaps use less green and shake the popper around a bit, like from side to side, the beans must move, unlike popcorn that sits on the bottom of a pan and waits until it gets hot enough.
ginny
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4) From: Allon Stern
On Mar 11, 2008, at 5:53 PM, gin wrote:
<Snip>
Is it the kind of popper that blows air from a grate at the bottom,  
or from vents on the sides? The side vents are supposedly better for  
roasting.
When I used a popper, I also used the same amount as popcorn called  
for; when first starting a roast, the beans wouldn't move around  
much, so I'd give it a little shaking, holding the popper at an angle  
to help them stir around. Once they lose a little moisture, they  
start moving better, swirling around. When first crack starts, it's  
usually pretty audible, and bits of chaff start flying out. Around  
second crack, a little smoke is evident.
Were you roasting outside? What is the ambient temperature? If it's  
too cold, it can be hard to get enough temperature rise from the  
popper. Some people have put poppers in cardboard boxes to help hold  
in the heat, recirculating the air.
What's the wattage of the popper? Model?
You said  Princess. I see a Princess 292989 which is 1150 watts, and  
a 292984 which is 1200 watts. (220-240V)
I did turn up a person on Coffegeek.com that appears to use a  
princess popper.
I'm assuming you're in a part of the world that uses 220-240V? If  
it's 220V, then maybe it's a little low for roasting.
-
allon
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5) From: GMAIL MARIJN
Hi,
I checked, it's the 1050 - 1150 watt version under 230 - 240 V. Here  
in the netherlands we us
e 230 (or maybe 220) i believe, certainly nog 240. I have no idea how  
many watts is required?
I haven't noticed any smoke by the way, so second crack was not  
achieved I presume.
And I roast inside (25 celsius) but i don't have a box around it :).  
But maybe that is a good idea.
Marijn
On 11 mrt 2008, at 23:14, Allon Stern wrote:
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6) From: Allon Stern
On Mar 11, 2008, at 6:29 PM, GMAIL MARIJN wrote:
<Snip>
If you roast inside with a popper, you'll get chaff floating all  
around your kitchen, and the whole house will smell of roasting  
smoke. I did this the very first time I roasted, back in '93,  
inspired by Kenneth David's Home Coffee Roasting book.
You might try restricting the air a little bit to get more heat; it  
may be that there is a thermal limiter, though.
Failing that, head down to Formido or Gamma and get yourself a heat  
gun :)
Make sure it'll reach at least 250 degrees C, more will be better.
-
allon
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7) From: neal
My guess is you never hit first crack. I've never used a princess popper,
but most likely you would hear it if you're indoors.
The coffee you get from not reaching first would have a sour/grassy/earthy
taste to it.
Neal
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 3:29 PM, GMAIL MARIJN  wrote:
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8) From: Allon Stern
On Mar 11, 2008, at 6:29 PM, GMAIL MARIJN wrote:
<Snip>
FWIW, my Hamilton Beach Popaire 2 is 1050W, and I've completed many a  =
roast with it.
You never mentioned what the bottom looks like.http://www.sweetmarias.com/airpopdesign.htmlNL is nominally 230 VAC @ 50 Hz, though it can vary considerably.
"Member countries of the European Union are presently striving to  =
achieve a common mains standard.
 From 1 January 2004 the mains supply should be 230V (-6%, +10%), 50  =
Hz (1%). ie a range of 216.2 - 253V "
You might consider borrowing a meter if you don't have one and  =
measuring.
-
allon
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9) From: GMAIL MARIJN
Well it is sour alright! What grassy and earthy taste like i don't  
know, but I guess that is what it tastes like. When I grind the beans  
a nice smell comes off, but when hot water hits the beans you get a  
very weird smell. Now I think about it, you could call it earthy. So I  
have to find a way to increase the heat. I am just worried that  
something will melt, the hood is made from plastic and gets very hot  
because the design really blows the hot air against the hood. Anyone  
who has had this problem and had a nice solution?
marijn
On 12 mrt 2008, at 00:00, neal wrote:
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10) From: neal
Yeah my hood melted after a couple roasts. My solution was to take it off,
but of course for you that will only let more heat escape. So either watch
it closely and be ready to stop the roast if it does start to melt, or take
it off and find some other way to keep the heat in.
Neal
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 4:08 PM, GMAIL MARIJN  wrote:
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11) From: Allon Stern
On Mar 11, 2008, at 7:13 PM, neal wrote:
<Snip>
Folks have come up with various other ideas, too...http://sweetmarias.com/homemade-homeroasters.htmlhas many pictures  
to glean ideas from, including:http://sweetmarias.com/homemade-homeroasters/dial-poppery1.jpghttp://sweetmarias.com/homemade-homeroasters/poppery1.jpg
andhttp://sweetmarias.com/homemade-homeroasters/dangray-roaster.pngNote the chaff filters.
-
allon
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12) From: GMAIL MARIJN
Ow sorry I forgot to mention the bottom. It is the hot-air-from-sides  =
bottom that is recommended. So that should not be the problem,
marijn
On 12 mrt 2008, at 00:07, Allon Stern wrote:
<Snip>
ee.com
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13) From: Frank Awbrey
marijn, I would do away with the plastic top. The coffee does not actually
pop and expand like popcorn does, so, if you use about 1/2 cup of green
coffee beans, it should not leave the popper (except for the few that are
blown out by the swirling air.
It sounds like you have the right popper, so I do not know what is wrong. I
don't know what the electrical current is like where you are living and so
don't know if that might have anything to do with it. I do use a cheap
popper like what you describe and have no problem achieving first crack.
In fact, I do a couple of things to "slow" my roast down, such as using a
long extension cord and "tilting" my popper.
Second crack should show a lot of smoke and oil on the beans. Is it possible
you do not have a good quality bean? (just asking:>)).
Here's hoping you find/fix the problem,
On 3/11/08, GMAIL MARIJN  wrote:
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-- 
Frank
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14) From:
I thought that  hit the jackport when I found a PopperI. Turned out that it wasn't so hot. I think one of the heating elements died and it only has half thee power it should have. If you can put your hand close to the top when the machine is on, it may not be fully heating.
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15) From:
Another popper I use takes about 12 minutes to get to 1st  using Columbian beans.
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16) From: Allon Stern
On Mar 11, 2008, at 7:26 PM,  wrote:
<Snip>
Good point.
Marijn, does it pop popcorn successfully?
-
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17) From: GMAIL MARIJN
Wow they do crazy things with those poppers:) Maybe a good idea to try  
something like that. But first I will try a few powerplugs, maybe some  
are on other nets with less power, or something like that. Getting rid  
of the hood i an idea, but i'll have to break it off. It is connected  
to the popper and  the popper is switched off when I open the hood.  
But a little hobbying is always fun;)
	I think i have good beans, (Kenia AA washed arabica), and it is a few  
weeks since I ordered them, so they are fresh.
marijn
On 12 mrt 2008, at 00:17, Allon Stern wrote:
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18) From: Sean Cary
Ditch the hood and get a can, cut both ends out of it...  You may need to
make a notch in the can if the popper has one...or the can will not sit
correctly.
Tip the popper when you are roasting with it, you will need to decrease the
tilt as the roast progresses and the beans get lighter.  I was going to make
a wedge one time, but use whatever seems to make its way onto the roasting
bench.
I learned how to roast in a Poppery 1 and still use it all the time.  I have
a glass tube instead of a can, but it works fine with a can.  If you are
really inclined - break the heat and fan apart and take out the thermostat.
Sean
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 7:08 PM, GMAIL MARIJN  wrote:
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-- 
Sean M. Cary
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19) From: Floyd Lozano
Actually, the freshness depends a lot on where you ordered them.  From
a place like Sweet Maria's you can believe they are indeed fresh.
<Snip>
to quality.  Beans are pretty hardy, but if they are past crop (1, 2,
or more years old) and not stored well, they can lose a lot of what
made them great.
-F
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 7:58 PM, GMAIL MARIJN  wrote:
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20) From: neal
Yeah, try a few different power outlets too. When I use my popper in my
garage I have the same problem, I can never reach first crack. But when I
use it in the kitchen it only takes 5-6 minutes.
Neal
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 6:12 PM, Sean Cary  wrote:
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21) From: Brett Mason
It's not getting hot enough....
You need to use more beans.  This may mean they don't move around at first,
so you'l;l need to stire every 10-15 seconds as the beans are drying out.
But once they dry and get lighter in weight, the additional mass is going to
retain more heat - thus you'll roast faster...
If you have a scale, weigh out the beans before you roast - so you know how
much is in there...  Write it down, so you know your starting point.  Time
the roast - write down how much time elapses from start to first crack, and
from first crack to second crack...
This begins the basis for determining how many beans are the right weight of
beans...
If you don't get to first crack by 7 minutes, try a little more weight, and
user the stir method to help it along....
Adjust as necessary...
Report back,
Brett
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 6:08 PM, GMAIL MARIJN  wrote:
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Cheers,
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