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Topic: OT New Convert/Espresso Setup (17 msgs / 369 lines)
1) From: mirrera
I realize that this belongs more on H-B than here, and it's probably been beaten to death in both places, but I'll start it again...
My friend from down the street, who "doesn't drink coffee", happens to enjoy my espresso.  So much so, he's decided to take the plunge and get himself set up so he doesn't have to come over every time he wants some.
So, my first suggestion (a La Marzocco GS/3 and Mazzer Mini) seemed ok until he learned the price, and I found that we were about $7k over budget.  Oh well -- I wanted to get my hands on one of those LMs.
He's budgeting around $1k, but I think that I can get that to creep up a little, if necessary.  I know that a Silvia/Rocky setup will come in under that, but I'd like to do a bit better than that, if I can, so he doesn't feel like he's got to upgrade (my equipment is a Spaz Vivaldi II and Macap M4, for comparison).
I'm thinking that I'll try to score him a used grinder and replace the burrs, which should leave more for the espresso machine, which will likely be new (though this used one tempted ME --http://tinyurl.com/2ukvkg).Let's assume that I can get a good grinder for $300, which leaves $700-900 or so for a machine.  Not a lot, I know.  I might be able to get him to go with an Alexia, but he likes a macchiato, so I'm concerned about steam, too. Expobar Office?  Pasquini Livietta?  Other suggestions?
Really, the only requirements are not plumbed, small footprint, and ability to steam.  And as for the grinder, electric is mandatory (sorry, Brett, no Zass for him).
So, let the suggestions fly.
-AdkMike
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2) From: Sandy Andina
Forget the Livietta--there are QC issues with Pasquini these days, and  
it's a dual-purpose single-boiler-plus-thermoblock (the latter a  
throwback to the cheapest entry-level pumpers) anyway. For $700-900,  
he can get into the HX market (simultaneous or immediately sequential  
brewing & steaming, no temp-surfing or PID modding necessary). If he  
doesn't mind some plastic (especially the housing) and doesn't need  
hot-water-dispensing capability, the Nuova Simonelli Oscar is a robust  
HX machine; for the same price he can get a metal-housed Expobar  
Office or Office Control with a dedicated hot water tap, but the  
Expobars also tend to be somewhat fragile when it comes to their  
electronics.  IMHO, a dual-boiler is a bit of overkill, especially if  
he is more into espresso than milk drinks.
Nice try on pushing for the LM, though; serious CSA points for that.
Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
On Mar 12, 2008, at 1:26 PM, Michael I wrote:
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3) From: Seth Grandeau
How about a PID'd Silvia?
On 3/12/08, Michael I  wrote:
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4) From: Leo Zick
how about CG sale items?
there are always tons of rancilios on there and i think i saw a quickmill
and bric on there as well.
On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 3:01 PM, Seth Grandeau  wrote:
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5) From: Sandy Andina
The PID may eliminate the guesswork of temp-surfing, but it doesn't  
eliminate the wait period between pulling shots and steaming. For the  
same price as a new PID'd Silvia he can get an HX, albeit perhaps not  
with an e61 group (which the Silvia, too, lacks).
Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
On Mar 12, 2008, at 2:01 PM, Seth Grandeau wrote:
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6) From: Dennis Parham
I started out on ranchilio Silvia and PID and it was great... Until I  
bought my FAEMA Compact...the Silvia is a great machine to learn on in  
my  opinion as many others do too .. But it spawns upgrade fever live  
never before!!! Hehehe
Dennis Parham
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 12, 2008, at 3:07 PM, Leo Zick  wrote:
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7) From: mirrera
Good suggestion, Leo -- I'd forgotten about that.  I've been looking on eBay, Craigslist, and some of the clearance pages of vendors (none on SM, unfortunately), but hadn't hit CG.
He may balk at a used machine, but we'll see what's out there.
Sandy, thanks for the suggestion, and elimination of the Pasquini.  So far, I like the Expobar Office -- I may do a bit more reading on that.
It's fun to spend other people's money...
-AdkMike
 ---------

8) From: Robert Yoder
What is meant by CG sale items?  I visited Coffee Geek, but wasn't able to find anything like sale items.  Can you clarify?
 
Thanks,
 
robert> From: dparham_is> To: homeroast> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:30:40 -0400> Subject: Re: [Homeroast] OT New Convert/Espresso Setup> > I started out on ranchilio Silvia and PID and it was great... Until I > bought my FAEMA Compact...the Silvia is a great machine to learn on in > my opinion as many others do too .. But it spawns upgrade fever live > never before!!! Hehehe> > Dennis Parham> Sent from my iPhone> > On Mar 12, 2008, at 3:07 PM, Leo Zick  wrote:> > > how about CG sale items?> > there are always tons of rancilios on there and i think i saw a > > quickmill> > and bric on there as well.> >> > On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 3:01 PM, Seth Grandeau  > > wrote:> >> >> How about a PID'd Silvia?> >>> >> On 3/12/08, Michael I  wrote:> >>>> >>> I realize that this belongs more on H-B than here, and it's probably> >> been> >>> beaten to death in both places, but I'll start it again...>
  >>>> >>> My friend from down the street, who "doesn't drink coffee", > >>> happens to> >>> enjoy my espresso. So much so, he's decided to take the plunge > >>> and get> >>> himself set up so he doesn't have to come over every time he wants > >>> some.> >>>> >>> So, my first suggestion (a La Marzocco GS/3 and Mazzer Mini) > >>> seemed ok> >>> until he learned the price, and I found that we were about $7k over> >>> budget. Oh well -- I wanted to get my hands on one of those LMs.> >>>> >>> He's budgeting around $1k, but I think that I can get that to > >>> creep up a> >>> little, if necessary. I know that a Silvia/Rocky setup will come in> >> under> >>> that, but I'd like to do a bit better than that, if I can, so he > >>> doesn't> >>> feel like he's got to upgrade (my equipment is a Spaz Vivaldi II and> >> Macap> >>> M4, for comparison).> >>>> >>> I'm thinking that I'll try to score him a used grinder and replace > >>> the> >>> burrs, which should leave more for the espresso 
 machine, which will> >> likely> >>> be new (though this used one tempted ME --http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.com>>>>> >>> >> Homeroast">http://tinyurl.com/> >>> 2ukvkg).> >>>> >>> Let's assume that I can get a good grinder for $300, which leaves> >> $700-900> >>> or so for a machine. Not a lot, I know. I might be able to get > >>> him to> >> go> >>> with an Alexia, but he likes a macchiato, so I'm concerned about > >>> steam,> >> too.> >>> Expobar Office? Pasquini Livietta? Other suggestions?> >>>> >>> Really, the only requirements are not plumbed, small footprint, and> >>> ability to steam. And as for the grinder, electric is mandatory > >>> (sorry,> >>> Brett, no Zass for him).> >>>> >>> So, let the suggestions fly.> >>>> >>> -AdkMike> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Homeroast mailing list> >>> Homeroast> >>>> >>>> >>http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.com>>>>> >>> >> Homeroast
  mailing list> >> Homeroast> >>> >>http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.com>>Homeroast mailing list> Homeroast>http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comShed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser!http://biggestloser.msn.com/Homeroast mailing list">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.com>>>> >> > Homeroast mailing list> > Homeroast> >http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.com>>Homeroast mailing list> Homeroast>http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comShed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser!http://biggestloser.msn.com/Homeroast mailing list
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9) From: Robert Yoder
Oops!  Found it. =
 =
Thanks!
 =
robert> From: robotyonder> To: homeroast=
e.com> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:11:50 -0700> Subject: Re: [Homeroast] OT N=
ew Convert/Espresso Setup> > > What is meant by CG sale items? I visited Co=
ffee Geek, but wasn't able to find anything like sale items. Can you clarif=
y?> > Thanks,> > robert> From: dparham_is> To: homeroast=
tmariascoffee.com> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:30:40 -0400> Subject: Re: [Hom=
eroast] OT New Convert/Espresso Setup> > I started out on ranchilio Silvia =
and PID and it was great... Until I > bought my FAEMA Compact...the Silvia =
is a great machine to learn on in > my opinion as many others do too .. But=
 it spawns upgrade fever live > never before!!! Hehehe> > Dennis Parham> Se=
nt from my iPhone> > On Mar 12, 2008, at 3:07 PM, Leo Zick  wrote:> > > how about CG sale items?> > there are always tons of ranci=
lios on there and i think i saw a > > quickmill> > and bric on there as wel=
l.> >> > On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 3:01 PM, Seth Grandeau  wrote:> >>>> >>> I realize that this belongs more on=
 H-B than here, and it's probably> >> been> >>> beaten to death in both pla=
ces, but I'll start it again...>> >>>> >>> My friend from down the street, =
who "doesn't drink coffee", > >>> happens to> >>> enjoy my espresso. So muc=
h so, he's decided to take the plunge > >>> and get> >>> himself set up so =
he doesn't have to come over every time he wants > >>> some.> >>>> >>> So, =
my first suggestion (a La Marzocco GS/3 and Mazzer Mini) > >>> seemed ok> >=
<Snip>
 budget. Oh well -- I wanted to get my hands on one of those LMs.> >>>> >>>=
 He's budgeting around $1k, but I think that I can get that to > >>> creep =
up a> >>> little, if necessary. I know that a Silvia/Rocky setup will come =
in> >> under> >>> that, but I'd like to do a bit better than that, if I can=
, so he > >>> doesn't> >>> feel like he's got to upgrade (my equipment is a=
 Spaz Vivaldi II and> >> Macap> >>> M4, for comparison).> >>>> >>> I'm thin=
king that I'll try to score him a used grinder and replace > >>> the> >>> b=
urrs, which should leave more for the espresso > machine, which will> >> li=
kely> >>> be new (though this used one tempted ME --http://tinyurl.com/> =
<Snip>
 which leaves> >> $700-900> >>> or so for a machine. Not a lot, I know. I m=
ight be able to get > >>> him to> >> go> >>> with an Alexia, but he likes a=
 macchiato, so I'm concerned about > >>> steam,> >> too.> >>> Expobar Offic=
e? Pasquini Livietta? Other suggestions?> >>>> >>> Really, the only require=
ments are not plumbed, small footprint, and> >>> ability to steam. And as f=
or the grinder, electric is mandatory > >>> (sorry,> >>> Brett, no Zass for=
 him).> >>>> >>> So, let the suggestions fly.> >>>> >>> -AdkMike> >>>> >>>>=
 >>>> >>> Homeroast mailing=
 list> >>> Homeroast> >>>> >>>> >>http://lists=.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.com> >>>> >=
<Snip>
st> >> Homeroast> >>> >>http://lists.sweetmari=ascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.com> >>> >=> > Homeroast mailing list> > Homeroas=
t> >http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinf=o.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.com>=> Homeroast mailing list> Homeroast>=
http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffe=e.com>> S=
hed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser!>http://biggestloser=.msn.com/>> Homeroast maili=
ng list> Homeroast>http://lists.sweetmariascof=fee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.com
Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with sta=
r power.http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_janHomeroast mailing list
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10) From: Dennis Parham
When I did the Silvia PID it was no more than about 200 bucks  
including the very nice PID ... I was looking lateley and seems they  
have gone up allot ... Am I mistaken?? Anyway, if not.. The Silvia is  
a gateway espresso! Machine... Once you spend allot on it to do all  
your custom tricks and invested about a grand including cystic  
portafilters, you can just buy a semi or preowned commercial  
machine... Now for the"catch" the Silvia is fantastic to learn on  
because she is finicky and required skill to master compared to some  
more forgiving commercial machines, with that said... Get another  
silvia in circulation.. Learn on it the hard way.. Then sell it for  
most of what you have in it and go commercial.. You WILL deserve I'd  
by then!!! Hehehe IMHO
Dennis parham
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 12, 2008, at 3:01 PM, Seth Grandeau  wrote:
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11) From: Sandy Andina
That's why I didn't PID my Silvia--I heeded Mark Prince's warning that  
a PID will not compensate for poor technique or beans. I learned more  
about how to make espresso than if I'd gone straight to a prosumer  
machine. I had planned to sell it when I got my HX but I'm glad I kept  
it--it's great for taking to parties, and it's done great service all  
these months when first my Livia and then the Magister that replaced  
it were out of commission. Friday, I'm hoping it can go back to aux.  
duty, but I'm not selling it!
Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
On Mar 12, 2008, at 5:35 PM, Dennis Parham wrote:
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12) From: Les
I have an Expobar Office and I love it.  For the money it is hard to beat.
It steams good, and the HX surfing is predictable.  You can get a good one
in your price range.
Les
On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Michael I  wrote:
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13) From: mirrera
That's good to know, Les.  I'm leaning toward recommending the Office for him.  I could also get a reconditioned Brewtus II and Mazzer Mini for $1800.  I know that's getting into overkill territory, and way over budget, but it would be pretty nice, I think.  And I'm so happy with my double boiler machine, that I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one to someone else.
Any comments on the Brewtus from the list?  From what I've read so far, there's no option to plumb it in -- is that right?
-AdkMike
 ---------

14) From: miKe mcKoffee
Overkill? IMO quality tools are never overkill in the long run. While true
an experienced craftsman can usually produce quality results with inferior
tools the job, whatever it may be, will usually be quicker, easier and more
enjoyable using quality tools.
Dual boiler espresso machines make shot temp management much easier as you
of course know. Not having to learn HX surfing would/could greatly reduce a
noobs learning curve eliminating that part of the equation. OTOH while Debi
is not nearly as proficient as I am, she can pull decent shots on our HX
Bricoletta following simple flush routine I've documented for her. 
Quality grinder more important than which espresso machine. 
Now if looking at a 3 or 4 group La Marzocco or Synesso well sure, that
might be considered overkill unless you really do a LOT of entertaining:-)
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
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15) From: Dennis Parham
On Mar 12, 2008, at 8:02 PM, Sandy Andina wrote:
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16) From: Dennis Parham
oops forgot to post.. lol   yeah... I should have held onto my Silvia  
or maybe even the Pasquini Livia.. but I well deserved Buddy here got  
it from me! hehehe  at a time of vulnerability!! lol  and my Silvia  
was great but becoming quite expensive even at the prices when we are  
first PIDing machines years ago when they were not so expensive... but  
Im SOOO glad I learned on the Silvia.. she is not forgiving so you  
have to learn good technique.. and now without her.. I find myself in  
a hurry sometimes getting lazy.. My FAEMA has I think I e98 group or  
something like that.. it is exactly the same as e61 but a different  
form factor.. with thermosiphon and everything... same size... its a  
1990 machine.. Commercial, nt too many electronics... its sSO cool how  
they design them , I talked to FAEMA  and they explained to me that  
the machine was designed to be a workhorse.. 120 shots/hr if I could  
pull them... HX machine... and even down to size of boiler, and length  
of thermosiphon copper tubing to grouphead to make it completely  
stable.. very few working parts... so little to go bad.... there is no  
need to PID it accept just to be " fancy"  maybe during a long resting  
time it might work to stabilize temps .. but all I have to do if its  
be on and sitting is run about 2-4 oz through portafilter before I  
lock it in for the shot.. and I mean this thing gives me almost PURE  
crema in about 60ml double.. I can actually overflow my shot glasses  
with crema and still inside the shot time window.. LOVE IT! hehehe  
anyway.. Im going on a tangent but its al in good fun! hehehe I always  
strive for ristretto.. to the point Ill even let the first second or 2  
of shot miss my cup.. get the middles of the shot and cut short before  
the end....  OMG!!!  pure sweetness!!
Dennis Parham
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17) From: Barry Luterman
Not true a lot of the Brewtus owners have been plumbing them in, automatic
draining and converting to rotary pumps.
Check out:http://groups.google.com/grphp?tab=mgOn Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 5:33 AM, Michael I  wrote:
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