HomeRoast Digest


Topic: about that light at the end of the tunnel... (25 msgs / 655 lines)
1) From: Sandy Andina
......it's just swamp gas.
Went to the espresso repair shop at the appointed time to pick up my  
Magister today, called from the parking lot (to avoid having to bang  
on the back door), and the owner answered.  When I said who I was and  
I was there to pick up my machine, he asked, "The Oscar?" Uh-oh. "No,  
the Magister you rebuilt for me." "Oh, yeah, that one. Wait a sec." I  
went out to the door and waited; after about a couple of minutes the  
door opened and the owner's son stood there holding the Magister. It  
was FILTHY, and had some sort of plastic grid atop the cup-holder  
(which I don't remember having been there when I first got the machine  
way back in October).  He put it in the car, whereupon he apologized  
for the dirt and mentioned he had tested it and there was water in the  
tank. I mentioned the PF seems to be missing; he said that he's sure  
he left it with me.  I brought it home, had my son carry it into the  
house, and plugged it in. Sounded like the autofill kicking in for a  
second and then it went silent.  Took 15 minutes for the pressure  
gauge to go up into the green, and the orange ready light never went  
out, though I could hear the pressurestat clicking on and off.  I also  
noticed that the PF didn't seem to fit unless I maneuvered the steam  
wand around it (something that would be inadvisable with the steam  
wand up to temp), but it fit my Silvia and the Silvia's fit it easily  
(go figure).  Tested the steam wand once the pressure gauge went into  
the green, and it steamed the milk fairly coarsely (the wand has an  
integrated 3-hole tip I couldn't remove to replace with the ProGold  
I'd had on the Livia).  However, once I turned the knob back to the  
"closed" position the knob hesitated and kept turning (stripped  
bushing?).  Then came the test, after it had been on nearly 3/4 hr.   
Loaded the basket up with the same amount and grind of Greenline I'd  
used on the Silvia in the early afternoon, tamped, locked in the PF,  
and hit the brew switch. Sounded like a submachine gun--and the needle  
jittered within the lowest reaches of the green. At first I thought  
I'd choked it and then the espresso came out in thin, fast transparent  
streams with no crema.  Awful. And the puck was soupy.  Tried varying  
the dose and coarsening the grind, and this time nothing but water  
came out the spouts (with steam all around).  Turned off the brew  
switch and unlocked--the puck was nearly dry. Then I tried running  
water out with no coffee--first, with an empty PF and then with no PF-- 
by then nothing but steam was coming out the grouphead.  Noticed there  
was water coming out the outlet, so the hoses are sucking the water  
out of the tank. Tried withdrawing and reinserting the hoses, to no  
avail. (Using Crystal Geyser). Called the shop, described the problem,  
and the owner said he'd come over Monday (I'm out of town again  
tomorrow, alas) and work on it (for free) so we don't have to keep  
transporting it up and back.  He also said he'd bring flyers for new  
machines (uh-oh again, though perhaps he saw promising stuff at the  
show up in Milwaukee).    I get the sneaky feeling that this may not  
be the same Magister I was originally given. And I was shocked by all  
the grime--dust, paint flakes--on the drip tray and cover; I'd venture  
to guess that the machine had been "ready" for a long time and my  
calls just went unanswered.   (Considered doing a backflush, but the  
son said it had been cleaned and "tested." I suspect they never "test"  
it by pulling a shot and tasting it. At any rate, the grouphead and  
gasket were clean as a whistle).  My guess is that the problem is some  
sort of obstruction to the water lines into the grouphead.  Didn't see  
any leaks out the bottom this time, though, so have no idea why the  
ready light never went out and the needle barely made it into the  
green.  Would have unplugged it and taken off the cover myself, but  
couldn't find the screws or screw access holes.
Meanwhile, plugged Silvia back in, took her PF (still loaded with the  
dry puck) out of the Magister, locked it into Silvia, and pulled a  
shot--crema galore. Ah, Silvie, you're a fine girl---why couldn't you  
have been born an HX????
Sandy Andina
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2) From: Rich
Sandy, You have an incredible amount of patience.
Sandy Andina wrote:
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3) From: miKe mcKoffee
Sandy, either you're a Saint or a Sucker. No way in Hades would those jerks
get away with what they are continuing to put you through if it was me. How
magnanimous of the owner to volunteer to come fix his yet another screw up
for "free". Hell he should be paying you for your time he keeps wasting not
to mention loss of use not to mention anxiety and headaches. That operation
is a lawsuit waiting, no make that needing to happen, and I hate the over
use of lawsuits our society seems so fond of. There is absolutely zero
excuse for such incompetence in a supposedly professional operation.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
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4) From: Sandy Andina
I did notice today when I drove past the front door that there were  
"help wanted" signs all over the front window.  This corroborates what  
I'd heard from the shop's competitor--there's more than enough work  
for both businesses, and backed up for weeks.  Anyone want a recession- 
proof job?
I don't know that it's incompetence, since the other shop speaks  
highly of this one and they refer business up and back to each other.   
I think it's being overwhelmed, especially with a constant stream of  
multigroups and especially pricey superautos from bars and big offices  
overflowing the shop.  I wasn't always this patient--early last fall  
before the shop owner decided to first sell me a Livia 90 S at less  
than cost (and reneged when he heard about Pasquini/Bezzera safety QC  
problems) and then give me a rebuilt Magister, I was ready to go to  
the Consumer Affairs division of the A.G. or to the media.  But having  
a working Silvia does ease the strain somewhat.
On Mar 14, 2008, at 8:03 PM, miKe mcKoffee wrote:
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5) From: miKe mcKoffee
Espresso machines are just not that complicated. Bad repair after bad
repair. Ridiculous. And if it's not incompetence it's lack of ethics. Do
what you say you're going to do when you say you're going to do it. If you
can't make a promised commitment do to unforeseen circumstances openly and
honestly say so. As far as "the other shop" goes who's to say they're any
better.
I worked in the computer field service industry for a long time. Timely open
communication is paramount in customer service. Telling the truth should be
a given.
In this case it seems that light at the end of the tunnel is a freight
train...
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
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6) From: Brett Mason
Get an attorney.
This is nuts.
Brett
On 3/14/08, Sandy Andina  wrote:
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7) From: Brett Mason
Sorry Sandy, you are getting taken, and it will continue.  I am
thinking "Leopard and Spots" here.  You need a refund from your first
machine.  I think a small claims judge is going to love you.  This one
is easy...  You have earned enough suffrage points to garner a new
machine - from a real source.  Beavis and his associate do not seem to
be getting it done for you....
Brett
On 3/15/08, Brett Mason  wrote:
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8) From: Rich M
On Mar 14, 2008, at 7:44 PM, Sandy Andina wrote:
<Snip>
Hey Sandy-
Sorry for your troubles... hopefully things will turn out for the  
best. I echo some others on this list when they marvel at you  
patience. I know the Good Book says I should be more tolerant, but  
when I feel like someone's taking advantage of me I tend to be rather  
abrupt and direct (my wife is saying "over the top"). Anyway, was  
there some type of coffee show in Milwaukee? How did I miss that!?
Rich M
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9) From: Sandy Andina
I AM an attorney and have mentioned that for leverage--which is  
probably why they haven't just blown me off. Not worth filing a small  
claims suit, as they can prove they expended $250 worth of parts and  
labor (albeit fruitlessly), the Livia was out of warranty, and the  
value of the Livia for parts is speculative, so the best award I could  
hope for is to get my broken Livia back and perhaps my $250. That  
would not go very far toward buying a new machine from SM's or another  
reputable vendor. Furthermore, in this day and age some yuppie  
bitching about her broken espresso machine is not going to get any  
sympathy from a judge or jury when people can't afford to keep their  
mortgage payments up (and when most people wouldn't know good espresso  
from Esperanto).  Yes, I am the aggrieved party here--but in the grand  
scheme of things there are more important wrongs for the legal system  
to redress.
I just needed to vent my frustrations. I myself have more pressing  
problems (late for a gig in WI, father-in-law hospitalized in NYC and  
needing to move in with us, unsellable condo in FL draining me  
dry.....) than having to make do with just a single-boiler machine for  
9 months....
On Mar 15, 2008, at 8:26 AM, Brett Mason wrote:
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10) From: raymanowen
"...was there some type of coffee show in Milwaukee?"
Hell, No! It was a Clown show. The stick does not point to Milwaukee when
I'm divining Coffee!
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Rich M  wrote:
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11) From: Scott Miller
I'm chuckling on the "espresso from Esperanto" comment ... I'll be stealing
that one ... Um, I mean borrowing with attribution.
Sorry to hear about the ongoing machine problems. My local coffee machine
doctor has a 1 group machine coming into his shop this week: a buy out from
a small cafe that closed. I'm going to take a look at the machine as I need
a back up.
Good thing you have the Silvia, eh?
cheers,
Scott
On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 1:44 PM, Sandy Andina  wrote:
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12) From: Michael Dhabolt
Sandy,
One thing that you can feel positive about.  At least you aren't
afflicted with the 'Tinkerer' bug.  At some point in time (near future
- I hope) you will end up with a machine that works and meets your
needs,  and all these machinations will slowly fade into a 'Bad
Memory'.
Those of us that are subject to the aforementioned affliction are
saddled with the ongoing quest for parts and pieces to complete
projects involving machinery that hasn't had spare parts available for
30 years.  I recently purchased a dead La Marzocco 2 group GS2 manual
paddle group machine.  Even when I get it finished, I can't imagine it
in my kitchen.  I was initially thinking of cutting everything down to
a single group machine (while driving 450 mile round trip to get it).
But when I got it home I had to reconsider - it would seem to be
sacrilege to do major surgery on a machine that falls into the 'Holy
Grail' category for most espresso machinery geeks.
The pursuit does have its rewards - took less than three hours to take
'before' pictures, and turn it into a pile of pieces (and a lot of
digital pictures of dis-assembly).  This stage of a restoration always
forces me to do some deep thinking about what specific part of my
psychological makeup is responsible for this being the most FUN,
eclipsed only (by a very small margin) by that time when the switch
goes to ON and the machine provides me with the nectar or the gods.
Gotta go  ....  Pull a restritto of a blend of Brazil YB, IMV and
Sumatra BB - - - and check on the parts in the Citric Acid bath.
Mike (just plain)
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13) From: Sandy Andina
Sigh. Why don't any of you tinkering addicts live in my neighborhood,  
willing to work for coffee or a song?
On Mar 15, 2008, at 3:15 PM, Michael Dhabolt wrote:
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14) From: Rich
There are special requirements to live in the city of Chicago
Sandy Andina wrote:
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15) From: Brett Mason
Hi Sandy,
You are far more gracious and kind than I am.
I would try to get every penny back, and ask for judgement for my
travels as well - if only for the vendor's misrepresentation.  I would
get the small claims engine fired up at a minimum...
Hope somehow you get the machine of your dreams...  Maybe they have it
in the back - in fact I can see them turning a new leaf, even as we
discuss their business here...  There's a new one there, same shop.
Really, I do hope / wish you get the machine you want...
Brett
On 3/15/08, Sandy Andina  wrote:
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16) From: Sandy Andina
Just had the repair guys over.  They pulled the Magister apart and  
determined that the boiler had overfilled (due to the probe being  
misread), and that the pump is shot.  They took it back and will put  
in a new (not rebuilt) Ulka pump (they wished that they could fit a  
new rotary pump but don't think the architecture of the machine could  
handle it; I am also limited to a 110-120V line and a pourover).  If  
they can't get it to work in the shop they will let me take my pick of  
the commercial HXs they have in there and they will make sure it works  
perfectly.  The proprietor was actually very focused and took nearly  
an hour before he concluded he could not fix it on-site. To quote him,  
"I won't be satisfied till you are." Since I have another trip to NY  
coming up for Easter, and a working Silvia, I will give him another  
chance.  BTW, his shop was hit by a car this morning--a teenage  
student driver, being taught by his uncle, lost control and crashed  
into the burglar gate, breaking the window and nearly pinning him and  
his son who'd just walked through the door.
Sandy Andina
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17) From: Brett Mason
You know these things happen for a reason.
The proprietor was almost in a better place.
I believe they sold junk bonds in a former life.
I'll put $10 on the next round not being satisfactory.
I think the leopard doesn't change spots.
Just me,
Brett
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 9:33 PM, Sandy Andina  wrote:
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18) From: Cameron Forde
I'll join the fine tradition of disagreeing with Brett on this.  I was
skeptical of this mechanic until this most recent post.  There must be
some reason that Sandy is choosing to trust this guy and we aren't
seeing this.  I don't think that he would say that he "won't be
satisfied until she is" if he were trying to rip her off.  That said,
she has a lot more patience with him than I could manage.  I hope this
turns out well for you, Sandy.
Cameron
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 8:16 PM, Brett Mason  wrote:
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19) From: Brett Mason
Cameron, I truly hope I am wrong here.  Sandy's been a great customer,
and deserves the right solution as soon as possible...
B
On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 12:54 AM, Cameron Forde  wrote:
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20) From: Jim Gundlach
I'll have to agree to disagree with Brett here also.  In part because  
Sandy has shown a tremendous amount of good sense and judgment in her  
previous post and, especially through her music, I would suggest even  
a high degree of wisdom.  The truth is that what we can see through an  
email description of human interaction lacks many clues that give us a  
much better sense of what is going on. Sandy was there and reached her  
decision based on more information that we have. I'd bet Sandy will  
come out fine in the end.
       pecan jim
On Mar 17, 2008, at 11:54 PM, Cameron Forde wrote:
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21) From: Tom Ulmer
Wow...
I certainly do not wish to be presumptuous or demeaning but to refer to -
take your pick: scoundrels, imbeciles, or Voodoo cursed - as the repair guys
reasonably imply one is imminent. While I wish you all the best, this saga
may be soon chronicled in years and is taking on the story line of a Three
Stooges skit. You might consider putting in a pool and suggesting the repair
guys do weekly maintenance on it as well.
Asininely yours,
Tom

22) From: Brett Mason
OK, SO I meant it when I wrote that I do hope I am wrong...  I really
do.  Really.  Sandy, good music, good person, glad she's on the list,
always has good posts, Hey, I like Sandy.  Don't mean for anything
bad.  Brett.  Repents.  Hereby, volitionally, falls on sword.  The
Espresso machine people just made some sort of mistake.  Again. That's
all. It's nothing.  Didn't mean to get so many people worked up...
Brett
On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 9:25 AM, Jim Gundlach  wrote:
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23) From: miKe mcKoffee
Yeah Brett you could be wrong, you usually are (And uncharacteristically
I'd been of the same opinion as you:-)
OTOH the espresso machine service company in question may not be unethical
scoundrels as I'd previously intimated, merely most seemingly very
incompetent. That or they are gave birth to Murphy.
Sandy, I too sincerely hope some day before the turn of the next century
they get an actually fully tested working espresso machine to you.
Note:  variation of  : sarcasm alert rather than irony alert:-)
Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
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24) From: Sandy Andina
Thanks for all the sympathy and votes of confidence.  The truth, I  
believe, lies somewhere between Murphy and incompetence, though the  
shop has accounts throughout Chicago so they must be doing something  
properly.  Had I been a bit more patient, though, I might have tried  
Cora Coffee waaay out in the burbs (if they even service prosumer  
machines).  There are a number of single-group commercial HX machines  
in the shop that might work (including a Nuova Simonelli that unlike  
the Oscar has a hot water tap), but maybe a new probe and pump will do  
the trick. The Magister appears much sturdier than my old Livia or  
even a 90S, has a drip tray larger than some machines' tanks, and its  
no-burn steamwand, despite having a non-removable cylindrical tip, did  
give me more precise control over steaming milk than did the Livia and  
does so faster than does the Silvia. (Too bad the pump is bad--I could  
have used the Magister for steaming and the Silvia for shots, sort of  
a 2-part dual boiler machine).
Meanwhile, ran out of homeroasted Greenline today, but after only 2  
days the latest batch of Rocket Fuel smells and looks divine--gonna go  
pull a shot and report back.
On Mar 18, 2008, at 9:31 AM, miKe mcKoffee wrote:
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25) From: Lynne
Very thoughtful post, Pecan Jim! I agree - one can't see everything through
postings through email - and, yes, I also agree that Sandy has shown good
sense & wisdom in her postings. I know that I, personally, know nothing
about machines (which reminds me for my need to call Hamilton-Beach), and
dealings like this cause me to nearly break out in hives...
My heart goes out to you, Sandy. I do hope this can be resolved quickly - at
least in a little while you'll have a nice box of biscotti waiting for you
(which I hope you'll enjoy)! My only wish is that you'd have your machine
back & in running order at the same time (and that you'd never have to see
this man or his son *ever* again).
Lynne
On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 9:25 AM, Jim Gundlach 
wrote:
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