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Topic: Monsooned Elephant Help (22 msgs / 710 lines)
1) From: Dean De Crisce
Hello. I have a question. Roasted some Monsooned Elephant today in the
behmor. Did 8 oz on 1 lb setting at P4.
Approximately 12 minutes to first crack.
First crack lasted about a minute. I was aiming for city+. I find that some
coffees have a long break prior to 2nd crack,
and some do not. Towards the end of first crack...I heard some lesser
sounds, that in retrospect was second crack. I thought
that it was the first crack of some late outliers. I waited a few seconds
and realized it was second crack. I hit cool immediately
and heard a rolling second crack for at least 20-30 seconds. Leaving the
beans at, I believe, the Vienna stage. I was panicked when I
heard the rolling second crack, because it is, for my tastes, a failed
roast. Just had some now as SO espresso after an 8 hour
rest. It is ok (I know it is too early to judge)...but clearly the roast
flavor strongly predominates.
I imagine you have to record the progression and on the second roast of this
type of bean, know that first crack is connected to second crack.
Is there any other way to anticipate this without blowing a roast on the
first try (granted most people would probably aim for this roast level...
but I do not like to taste the roast...just the bean).
Thanks for your input.
Dean De Crisce
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2) From: Barry Luterman
As the beans cool they emit CO2 creating positive pressure within the bag.
The one way valve opens allowing the Co2 to escape until equilibrbium is
obtained. That is, when the outside air pressure equals the pressure inside
the bag. When equilibrium is obtained the valve closes not allowing any O2
into the bag.. Now pressure starts building in the bag from the Co2 and the
process repeats until no more Co2 is produced
On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 3:21 PM, Dean De Crisce 
wrote:
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3) From: Barry Luterman
I use a soft sign. If it is a hard bean the mid-line sulcus will be shallow.
A hard bean will have more time between first and second crack. Don't know
how scientific it is but reviewing my first 2 sentences it sure sounds
scientific.
On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 3:21 PM, Dean De Crisce 
wrote:
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4) From: Dean De Crisce
ha ha...thanks barry.
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo.

5) From: Bill
If you had a temp of the beans, you could see how fast they are climbing
through 1st crack.  that is, you could see the temp still spiralling...
 short of that, no... i think it takes that first roast of a bean to say,
"oh, man, this sucker is going too fast!"  the monsooning changes the
cellular structure of the bean....  I've had trouble finding a way to keep
them under control...bill
On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Dean De Crisce 
wrote:
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6) From: David Rossell
I really like the Monsooned Elephant and reviewed my roast notes when I saw
your post.  Notes from the first one read:  "2nd crack continued into
cooling" and from the second "1st and 2nd cracks really seemed to blend
together."  There was a good deal of cursing, if I remember correctly, that
didn't make it into the notes.
That said, I brought both roasts in around FC+ using the P2 profile on the
Behmor.  Here's what I used:
Roast weight:  8 oz.
Profile:  1 lb. P2 B  No time added.
1st crack start at:  7:50 remaining
cooled at 4:50 remaining
I have no notes for when the first crack ended probably because it blended so
thoroughly with the first snaps of the 2nd.
David Rossell
Administrator of Network Services and Planning
Norwood School
8821 River Rd.
Bethesda, MD 20817
(301) 841-2178
drossell

7) From: Bill
Haven't used the Behmor, but one thought bout first and 2nd running
together: Alchemist John recommends opening the door for a period of time
towards the end of 1st in order to slow the roast down... might want to
search the archives and see what he said.bill
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 5:25 AM, David Rossell 
wrote:
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8) From: Paul Carder
Dean, Don't worry, you didn't fail. According to my taste buds, your roasting to a rolling 2nd crack is perfect and how I roast the Monsooned Malabar Elephant!
Regards,
PAUL CARDER
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9) From: Sandy Andina
Yesterday I roasted a variant of my Rocket Fuel Espresso Blend (will  
run out of my latest batch of homeroasted Greenline by tom'w). Had to  
get creative, as I was out of some of my usual ol' standby  
components.  I decided to use a base of slightly less than 1/4 lb.  
Brazil Cerrado (all I had left) and a little more than 1/4 lb. India  
Mysore Nuggets (since it was described as "interesting espresso"). As  
SM's was out of Monsooned Malabar Elephant, I substituted Java  
Monsooned Arabica, about 3/8 lb., rounding it out with India Robusta  
Peaberry. All had FC-FC+ listed as the suggested roast degree; I  
foolishly forgot that that is an end result and not necessarily the  
process.  So I blended and roasted them together.
Heaven protects a fool, I guess.  I chose 1 lb., P1, profile A, added  
time up to the 20:30 max. Hit the start of first crack with about 6:54  
left to go; first crack was slow and gentle and did not morph into  
second until 1:15 was left.  Took it about 20 sec. into rolling  
("sizzle") second and hit the cool button. The beans expanded quite a  
bit and I could barely close the Tupperware container lid (had I put  
it in a valve bag, it'd have been fair game for my Coffee Monsters,  
Jr. and Sr.). Checked it today--a tiny bit of oil is developing on a  
few beans, but the color appears overall to vary between FC and FC+  
(the monsooned and peaberries a tad deeper and the others lighter) and  
the aroma is developing very nicely.  Not used to such a dark roast  
for espresso, but maybe I'm on to something here.
On Mar 17, 2008, at 6:25 AM, David Rossell wrote:
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Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
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10) From: Rich
Several variables impact the time between 1st and 2nd with a Behmor. 
Most important is the bean, followed in no particular order are amount 
of beans, profile selected and maybe modified.
This is a problem I have not experienced yet.
Bill wrote:
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11) From: Dean De Crisce
I've always been confused about P2...if the drop in temp occurs prior to 1st crack, then what good is it? If it occurs during first crack, then it could stall the roast. Its only beneficial use is to occur after 1st crack in order to prolong the time between 1st and 2nd crack. I have been confused as to
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo.

12) From: Dean De Crisce
I've always been confused about P2...if the drop in temp occurs prior to 1st crack, then what good is it? If it occurs during first crack, then it could stall the roast. Its only beneficial use is to occur after 1st crack in order to prolong the time between 1st and 2nd crack. I have been confused as to
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo.

13) From: miKe mcKoffee
I usually drop the power and increase airflow just "before" anticipated
"start" of 1st to slow the ramp "before" 1st begins so the roast doesn't
blast through 1st. However after first begins and goes about a minute I'll
usually bump the heat back up a hair and reduce airflow, then later kick
airflow back up. When and how much or little heat or air depends on roast
goal. Can't rightly say how effective it'll be without being able to control
"when" in relation to the actual roast progression like with the Behmor.
OTOH it would just be a matter of trial and error with different beans,
batch sizes, and pre-sets with the Behmor rather than being able to initiate
on demand. Unless you split out the heater circuit on the Behmor running it
off a variac to manually control the heater and always just use P1...bean
there done that. Never did get around to modding the Behmor for fan control,
got the CCR HT too soon:-)
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
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14) From: Bob Hazen
I agree about P2.  It seems like it could be useful if one could precisely 
control when it drops the power.  That might allow strettttchhhhiinngg the 
gap between the end of 1st and onset of 2nd.  But it's tough for me to 
handle.  There are ways to add time before or during the roast to control 
those break points, but it seems too complicated.  I like simple.  That's 
why I've been using P4 mostly.  And what's with the full power finish on P2? 
Seems you have to get "all the planets to line up" for P2 to work.
Bob

15) From: Brett Mason
The drop in temp is in the heat element.  The beans are still
increasing in heat (bean mass), albeit more slowly...  You can't dial
the heat in the beans.  You are dialing the heat in the heating
element...
Brett
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 11:24 PM, Dean De Crisce  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
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16) From: David Rossell
The drop in the heat being added to the system in P2 is nice for controlling
the speed of the 1st crack, but it can be tough to catch things just right.
I was using P2 quite a bit, but have gotten a couple of sour-tasting bean
batches with it at the lower roasts.  I was speculating that the beans heated
too quickly and never roasted through thoroughly.  This is me pulling
speculations out of my butt, though, since I've only been roasting since
December.  The most recent stuff I've done with P3 has come out better,
though I sometimes still find myself cracking the door on the roaster if it
seems that the first crack is moving too fast.
 
David
From: homeroast-bounces on behalf of Brett Mason
Sent: Tue 3/18/2008 12:08 AM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Monsooned Elephant Help
The drop in temp is in the heat element.  The beans are still
increasing in heat (bean mass), albeit more slowly...  You can't dial
the heat in the beans.  You are dialing the heat in the heating
element...
Brett
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 11:24 PM, Dean De Crisce 
wrote:
<Snip>
1st crack, then what good is it? If it occurs during first crack, then it
could stall the roast. Its only beneficial use is to occur after 1st crack in
order to prolong the time between 1st and 2nd crack. I have been confused as
to
<Snip>
so
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17) From: Dean De Crisce
Do you see any flavor difference  between P 3 4 or 5?
Dean De Crisce
Sent from a Treo.

18) From: Robert Yoder
miKe,
 =
When you modded the Behmor by splitting out the heater circuit, did you fin=
d a way to get any kind of meaningful temp readings (environment or whateve=
r)?
 =
Thanks for all your wonderful posts!
 =
robert yoder
 =
<Snip>
: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:52:44 -0700> Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Monsooned Eleph=
ant Help> > I usually drop the power and increase airflow just "before" ant=
icipated> "start" of 1st to slow the ramp "before" 1st begins so the roast =
doesn't> blast through 1st. However after first begins and goes about a min=
ute I'll> usually bump the heat back up a hair and reduce airflow, then lat=
er kick> airflow back up. When and how much or little heat or air depends o=
n roast> goal. Can't rightly say how effective it'll be without being able =
to control> "when" in relation to the actual roast progression like with th=
e Behmor.> OTOH it would just be a matter of trial and error with different=
 beans,> batch sizes, and pre-sets with the Behmor rather than being able t=
o initiate> on demand. Unless you split out the heater circuit on the Behmo=
r running it> off a variac to manually control the heater and always just u=
se P1...bean> there done that. Never did get around to modding the Behmor f=
or fan control,> got the CCR HT too soon:-)> > Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoff=
ee>http://www.mcKonaKoffee.com>URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some rec=
ipes etc:>http://www.mckoffee.com/>Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvan=
a is a solitary path. To know I must> first not know. And in knowing know I=
 know not. Each Personal enlightenment> found exploring the many divergent =
foot steps of Those who have gone before.> > Sweet Maria's List - Searchabl=
e Archives>http://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/> > > > > -----Original Message=
-----> > From: homeroast-bounces > > [mailto:ho=
meroast-bounces] On > > Behalf Of Dean De Crisc=
e> > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 8:24 PM> > > > I've always been confused =
about P2...if the drop in temp > > occurs prior to 1st crack, then what goo=
d is it? If it occurs > > during first crack, then it could stall the roast=
. Its only > > beneficial use is to occur after 1st crack in order to > > p=
rolong the time between 1st and 2nd crack. I have been confused as to> > > =
<Snip>
meroast] Monsooned Elephant Help> > Date: Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:25 am> > Size:=
 1K> > To: > > > > I really like the=
 Monsooned Elephant and reviewed my roast > > notes when I saw> > your post=
. Notes from the first one read: "2nd crack continued into> > cooling" and =
from the second "1st and 2nd cracks really > > seemed to blend> > together.=
" There was a good deal of cursing, if I remember > > correctly, that> > di=
dn't make it into the notes.> > > > That said, I brought both roasts in aro=
und FC+ using the P2 > > profile on the> > Behmor. Here's what I used:> > >=
 > Roast weight: 8 oz.> > Profile: 1 lb. P2 B No time added.> > 1st crack s=
tart at: 7:50 remaining> > cooled at 4:50 remaining> > I have no notes for =
when the first crack ended probably > > because it blended so> > thoroughly=
 with the first snaps of the 2nd.> > > > > > > > David Rossell> > Administr=
ator of Network Services and Planning> > Norwood School> > 8821 River Rd.> =
<Snip>
 > >

19) From: Bob Hazen
I don't know exactly how to explain this, and it's likely more dependent on 
the bean and degree of roast.  P3 seems to yield a thinner, brighter coffee 
and P5 seems bland by comparison.  P4 seems to bring out a depth and 
complexity that appeals to my taste.  Of course, there are a bucket of 
variables associated with coffee roasting, so YMMV.  So I say experiment!
Bob

20) From: Bill
MiKe,I'll chime in with another question.  I hadn't thought about airflow
with those commercial roasters.  What does changing airflow do to the roast?
 That part of your post intrigued me...
bill
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 9:52 PM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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21) From: Les
I am not Mike, but I do have a commercial roaster.  Change in airflow does a
number of interesting things.  You can control temperature by either the
amount of heat going into the chamber by the amount of air you put into the
chamber.  A biggest advantage in my opinion is chaff removal.  Using airflow
it is easy to slow down a roast or speed it up.  Airflow is great for
stretching the roast between 1st and second crack.  Having both flame
control and air control you have amazing flexibility in your roaster.
Les
On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 8:14 PM, Bill  wrote:
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22) From: Bill
Les,
thanks for the info...  Like I said, had simply not considered airflow
variable in a roaster, even though I knew it existed.  That's pretty cool.
 Thanks again.
bill
On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 9:28 PM, Les  wrote:
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