HomeRoast Digest


Topic: OT: Starbucks Ordered to Pay Back Tips (41 msgs / 879 lines)
1) From: Lynne
to the tune of $10 million:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/20/starbucks-ordered-to-pay-_n_92684.htmlLynne
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

2) From: Scott Miller
It's >100 million, after interest is calculated ... That's some $$!!
I know a *$ employee, but haven't asked her how tips are shared. Guess that
might be interesting to hear what a frontline worker says about this.
Tip pooling/sharing has created problems for other organizations in the
past. One place I worked at many years ago had to completely adjust
payscales and numerous financial reporting procedures as a result of a
similar lawsuit.
Expect to hear about lots of upset baristas and shift supervisors at the
Green Mermaid.
I'll happily enjoy the last of my Yirg Kochere and follow the fireworks at
the *$ gossip blog:http://tinyurl.com/2t2zrycheers,
Scott
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 9:24 AM, Lynne  wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

3) From: Jim Gundlach
I read to the tune of $106 million.  This is one of the things all too  
many corporations do.  They define relatively low level employees as  
supervisors so they can be classified as "salaried" rather than hourly  
employs who are eligible for overtime.  Then, when it is in their  
interest they redefine them as "not supervisors" to make eligible for  
payment out of the tip pool.  The truth is that when the employees get  
treated like this, it gets reflected in their attitudes and behavior  
so the shop lacks that friendly and warm atmosphere which makes people  
feel good about being there.   Card board smiles pasted on employees'  
faces just doesn't work.
      pecan jim
On Mar 21, 2008, at 8:24 AM, Lynne wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

4) From: Lynne
Maybe this is why they decided to buy the Clover company - to try to reduce
the number of baristas, maybe...
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

5) From: Gary Foster
Actually, I think this is a total crock and they'll win on appeal.
I'm not sure exactly how they do things at starbucks but my daughter
is a shift supervisor at Peets and they definitely share in the tips
(and earn it too).
My daughter does all the same amount of work as all the baristas she
supervises.  In addition, she's responsible for the normal shift
management stuff (supervision, break management, payroll, responsible
for counting the drawer, opening the store on the morning shift,
closing it at night, etc).  For this, she makes a whopping 50 cents an
hour more than the non supervisors.
In the meantime, she's right there at the counter serving all the
customers right beside the other baristas, helping to earn those tips
and you can bet your ass she earns the tips she shares in.
Starbucks will most probably win this on appeal I would imagine.  I
know how popular it is to bash on sbux around here, but from what I
understand and what I've heard sbux treats it's employees pretty well
and in this case I think they are absolutely 100% in the right.  Shift
supervisors help earn those tips and deserve them.
-- Gary F.
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Jim Gundlach  wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

6) From: Rich
Seems to me that Gary is on the right track here and everyone should 
just take a deep breath and relax.  Until you read up on the Federal IRS 
regs and the State of California regs  you have no basis to comment 
constructively.  You will also have to read all of the case transcripts 
and briefs.  Then you might be qualified to make an informed comment.
Gary Foster wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

7) From: Edward Bourgeois
Sounds like a slippery slope. Baristas should be Baristas and
Supervisors should be Supervisors(not saying that from time to time a
Manager might need to help out at the counter).  50 cents more an hour
for more than 50 cents worth of extra work sounds unfair. But is a
company problem not a customer problem. Say a cafe allows each barista
to keep the tips they earn and if the Superiors can do the same then
whats to stop a Manager from ordering a Barista to stand aside when a
known big tipper comes to the counter?
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 10:32 AM, Gary Foster  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
Amherst MA.http://coffee-roasting.blogspot.com/Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

8) From: Frank Awbrey
Come on, Rich. Since when does being knowledgeable about a subject have any
impact on "us", here or else where, keep us from making "informed" comments
about anything, hmmm? :>)
On 3/21/08, Rich  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Frank
"Still the one"
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

9) From: Sandy Andina
All in all, sounds like Schultz stepped back in just in time.  Under  
his first tenure, he envisioned Starbucks to be like the neighborhood  
coffeehouse in Italy--offering free newspapers, conversation and good  
coffee; that's why he introduced espresso drinks to what had been a  
bean store chain and why he expanded it beyond the Pacific NW.  Back  
in the late '80s-early '90s the baristi were knowledgeable and even  
willing to train espresso-machine purchasers in-store, even those who  
bought the cheapest machines.  I was invited several times to bring my  
Estro Profi in for instruction on pulling shots with the NPPF and  
proper steaming technique.  They offered both their signature  
charburnt and lighter roasts, and their Encore home-delivery program  
roasted the subscribers' beans the day before shipping. Starbucks was  
known as being an ideal work environment--good pay (no need for a tip  
jar) and benefits, including pension and stock options, and training  
that could be used in any coffeehouse. Schultz left, and the explosion  
of expansion (beans being sold in supermarkets, thus killing the  
Encore program; predatory store siting, airport and supermarket  
subcontract kiosks) led to dilution of quality and automation of the  
process to service what had devolved into merely doling out a  
commodity; the demand for baristi at airports, supermarkets and the  
supernumerary stores on every other street-corner necessitated hiring  
mere button-pushers and paying them as such.  When I stopped at the  
Effingham, IL Starbucks en route home from Memphis on the morning of  
the Tuesday systemwide training shut-down, the baristi were PUMPED  
over getting trained to pull quality shots; they had studied in  
advance about all aspects of coffee and the coffee culture. One of  
them told me that she was finally going to learn to do what she'd  
erroneously thought she had been hired on to do.  On that day, those  
smiles were real. Cynics might state that the purchase of Clover was a  
buyout akin to the oil-and-tire-companies' buyout and burial of the  
Red Car in 1920s Los Angeles, but knowing what I do about Schultz I  
think the man really wants Starbucks to become synonymous with quality  
specialty coffee again.
On Mar 21, 2008, at 9:10 AM, Jim Gundlach wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

10) From: Rich
First off, I agree with the thoughts that sandy has expressed below. 
and to add more to this discussion I ran across this blog post relating 
to the  Starbucks fine, you may find it interesting also.  Look at the 
comments.http://www.dontgointothelight.com/2008/03/about-that-tip-you-left-at-sta.phpSandy Andina wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

11) From: miKe mcKoffee
<Snip>
Actually the reverse would be true. Unlike a super-automatic espresso
machine which simply requires a moderately trained monkey to push a button
the Clover is anything but an automatic method of brewing. 
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

12) From: Dave
I've never seen a clover in action but...
In order to get the most out of the clover I agree. It will require
training, practice and caring on the part of the operator.
But what's to prevent it being just another button pushing operation
if the "barista" is typical of what *$ hires and trains now?
-- 
Dave
Some days...
It's just not worth chewing through the leather straps
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 2:03 PM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

13) From: Aaron
How do you know that nobody here might have read up on regs or 
whatnot.?  YOU dont know.     By making that statement, you have proven 
yourself to be just as ignorant as you are claiming the rest of the 
folks who have commented thus far, to be.  Go ahead, correct my grammar 
and further the cause.
Aaron
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

14) From: Aaron
so what are you saying mike?  Starbucks has to train their monkeys now?  
Aww geez, there goes the buck a cup o slop deal.  They gonna be right 
back at 3.95 for an it taste like an anal vente sized or whatever it 
is.   Next thing you know, starbucks starts hoarding all the trained 
monkeys, they gonna git class action sued by all the out of a job organ 
grinders....  it never ends I tells ya!!
Aaron
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

15) From: miKe mcKoffee
Oh I'm quite certain any *$ "barista" operating their Clovers will have zero
input on what parameters to use for any coffee, i.e. dosage weight, grind,
brew temp, infusion time, water volume(?). Those will all be predetermined
for them. IIRC the Clover is capable of "online" programming which I suspect
may be how they'll handle it. Someone "upstairs" decides how a particular
coffee should be brewed and downloads the specs to every Clover in the *$
Empire. Now the trained monkey will need to weigh the bean, set the grinder
(unless they have they push programmable too), load the grinds and initiate
the brew cycle. Then again *$ may have their Swedish super-automation
espresso machine wizards working on modifying the Clover borging it with
bean auto-load to auto-grind to auto-brew at the push of the proverbial one
touch button. And at best it'll still be brewing their homogenized coffees
to the homogenized uneducated masses who believe their hype...
Personally in a way I'm glad *$ bought out the Clover. I no longer feel any
inferiority to the really cutting edge independent shops about our little
Kafe not having one. But reality check anyway. Those who know and want
quality coffee know *$ isn't the place to find it regardless the brewing
method. Unfortunately the green juggernaut rolls on proliferating their
dogma of "Specialty Coffee" that just ain't so special yet the masses
believe and bow down. Will *$ return to real quality focused coffee roots? I
highly doubt it, profits are what count to the shareholders not quality
coffee.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
<Snip>
tmariascoffee.com
<Snip>
tmariascoffee.com
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

16) From: stereoplegic
this lawsuit is a total crock. this was probably some lazy-ass barista 
who wasn't pulling their weight anyway. @ least here in Houston, a shift 
supervisor is paid hourly, just like a barista, only making $1 more/hr 
(albeit apparently better than Peet's) to do all the things a barista 
does as well as the things Gary mentions. as assistant or store managers 
they're paid salary and are no longer eligible to receive a share of the 
tips. these guys work their asses off. they deserve those tips @ least 
as much as the people they manage (and their share is no more than that 
of any barista), just as opening and closing staff deserve an equal per 
hr share (spending 30-45 min setting up or closing down, not serving 
customers during that time) as those who only work during business 
hours. as for those who don't, it's up to the managers to get rid of 
them and make room for those who do.
Rich wrote:
<Snip>
-- http://www.homeroasters.org- homemade roasters, roaster mods, contests, much, much morehttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/houstonhomeroasters- homeroasters in Houston, TXhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gaggia/- Gaggia user group, help, maintenance, mods, etc">http://www.sweetmarias.com- the finest green coffee available anywhere coupled w/ amazing cupping notes, plus a wealth of roasting and brewing pointershttp://www.homeroasters.org- homemade roasters, roaster mods, contests, much, much morehttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/houstonhomeroasters- homeroasters in Houston, TXhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gaggia/- Gaggia user group, help, maintenance, mods, etc
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

17) From: Coffee
It doesn't mater whether the shift supervisors or managers do the same  
work as the barista, the law is quite clear that they don't share in  
the tips. The fault here is *$ who knew the law, but ignored it out of  
greed. What *$ should be doing is not only paying the shift  
supervisors more for their extra duties, but enough more to compensate  
them for loss of tips. That is what is fair.
On Mar 21, 2008, at 9:13 PM, stereoplegic wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

18) From: Gary Foster
Actually it very does much matter.
The shift supervisors are hourly employees.  Managers are salaried.
<Snip>
*salaried* employees from sharing in the tips, not fellow baristas who
happen to have a few extra duties.
-- Gary F.
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 6:18 AM, Coffee  wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

19) From: Edward Bourgeois
Here is a link to the CA. law and FAQ.http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/FAQ_TipsAndGratutities.htmOn Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 3:20 PM, stereoplegic  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast
Amherst MA.http://coffee-roasting.blogspot.com/Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

20) From: stereoplegic
right, Gary. and what greed? *$ isn't keeping the tips for themselves, 
they're for shifts and employees. i believe shifts are even the ones who 
have to count and distribute the tips (managers can't touch them). w/ 
that said, not giving them a share of the tips they just spent time to 
divide and distribute would be an additional slap in the face.
Gary Foster wrote:
<Snip>
-- http://www.homeroasters.org- homemade roasters, roaster mods, contests, much, much morehttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/houstonhomeroasters- homeroasters in Houston, TXhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gaggia/- Gaggia user group, help, maintenance, mods, etc">http://www.sweetmarias.com- the finest green coffee available anywhere coupled w/ amazing cupping notes, plus a wealth of roasting and brewing pointershttp://www.homeroasters.org- homemade roasters, roaster mods, contests, much, much morehttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/houstonhomeroasters- homeroasters in Houston, TXhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gaggia/- Gaggia user group, help, maintenance, mods, etc
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

21) From: Coffee
The greed is that instead of paying the supervisors enough to make up  
for the lost tips, they take the tips away from the regular baristas.  
You can't call someone management and give them management  
responsibilities and then pay them like they are regular workers. If  
they were to pay the supervisors appropriately (enough to make up for  
the lost tips plus more to compensate them for their increased  
responsibilities) then everyone wins.
On Mar 22, 2008, at 12:20 PM, stereoplegic wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

22) From: Brett Mason
With a leap like that, you ought to be in the Olympics...
Brett
  I am Brett Mason and I approve this message.
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Coffee  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.comHomeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

23) From: Coffee
The law is clear. Starbucks thought they could save some money by  
underpaying their supervisors and taking tips ($100,000,000 worth of  
tips) away from the regular baristas. Sounds like greed to me.
-Peter
On Mar 22, 2008, at 3:09 PM, Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

24) From: Brett Mason
Did Starbucks break employment law?  I am amazed, because you said it is clear.
According to Starbucks, tips are not figured in employee compensation.
 Tips are not expected or demanded from customers.  Tips are shared by
those who deliver the excellent service.
Clear?  Yeah - it's mentioned here:http://www.starbucks.com/Greed?  Nope - they pay all their employees, and they pay them fairly.
You don't belong in the zoo - you belong in the Olympics!
  Twist on "Put me in the Zoo" by Dr. Seuss...
Brett
  I am Brett Mason and I approve this message.
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 5:23 PM, Coffee  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.comHomeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

25) From: Coffee
Someone before me kindly posted the link to the California governments  
site discussing this issue. Here is the relevant quote:
"Additionally, tip pooling cannot be used to compensate the owner(s),  
manager(s), or supervisor(s) of the business, even if these  
individuals should provide direct table service to a patron."
Which part of that is not clear?
If Starbucks wants to make someone a supervisor, knowing that they  
will no longer be able to share in the tips, the increase in pay will  
have to make up for this loss or no-one will take the job. But instead  
of paying the supervisors enough, they chose to have them share in the  
tips so that they (Starbucks) could save money.
-Peter
On Mar 22, 2008, at 3:46 PM, Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

26) From: Bryan Wray
I think the thing that concerns me most is that this actually IS a move back towards quality, which shows that Howard is going to attempt to make moves back towards where they used to be.  How far he takes it is yet to be seen, but this is a hell of a first step.  Also, the new espresso machines?  Sure its still just another super-auto pumping out the same old stuff (probably), but by the customer being able to see the barista they are helping to build relationship, something that I have never felt in a Starbucks, something that indie shops bank on.
If they can this easily buy such a piece of innovative product, how hard will it be to launch a "new line of roast" to compliment the product?  Their greens really aren't that terrible (no, not in the same league as the ones in our cupboards, but trust me, there are certainly worse, and by companies you wouldn't expect) and if they roasted them lighter I think we would all be surprised how above "sub-par" their brew would be.
And if they can so easily do those two things, how hard is it going to be for them to start really pushing relationship coffees?  Informing customers about the importance of the relationship and why they are on the "cutting edge."
I don't know... I probably am just over reacting to this whole thing, but I like to take caution and plan ahead when it comes to my #1 passion.  There is nothing that I desire more than putting quality coffee across the counter and explaining to customers how important their purchase just was to the world of coffee, all the way back to the farmer.  I don't think you'll ever get that from a 'Bux.
It's not that I doubt my product, it's that I think this IS the start of some real changes for the 'Bux.  Howard said that he wanted to change things and he is, and very quickly for a company as big as they are (ie- it's not easy to implement changes to 10s of thousands of stores and do so quickly and efficiently).  I don't think indies will lose customers I just don't think it will be as easy to convert previous Starbucks customers.  It's not about sales going down, it's about sales hitting a plateau and not being able to educate and inform new customers.
Again, I'm probably over-reacting, but boy, I sure do hope so...
-Bry
 
Bryan Wray
NaDean's Coffee Place
Kalamazoo, MI
"It is my hope that people realize that coffee is more than just a caffeine delivery service, it can be a culinary art"- Chris Owens of Cafe Grumpy in NYC.
       
---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

27) From: Brett Mason
Peter, maybe it's just me.  Starbucks claims that they don't count on
the tips at all for compensation.  Their compensation for Supervisors
is done apart from tips.  So I don't see the greed part.  But maybe
someone on list can identify that indeed Starbucks underpays their
supervisors compared to other establishments.  That would certainly
help spell out the greed part.
Without such an obvious gap between Starbucks pay grades and other
employer pay grades for similar work, I would see a "leap".  Ergo,
consider the Olympics...
Is there a problem with Starbucks' allowing the supervisors to share
in the tips - maybe so.  You've pointed out the law that appears to
apply.  But I am fascinated that Starbucks is not being pursued for
illegal employment practices.  Rather it's a class action suit built
from the account of one barista who shared tips and felt it was
unfair, and apparently illegal...
It's the leap that qualifies you for the Olympics...
Brett
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 6:09 PM, Coffee  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.comHomeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

28) From: Bryan Wray
so what are you saying mike?  Starbucks has to train their monkeys now?
  
Aww geez, there goes the buck a cup o slop deal.  They gonna be right 
back at 3.95 for an it taste like an anal vente sized or whatever it 
is.   Next thing you know, starbucks starts hoarding all the trained 
monkeys, they gonna git class action sued by all the out of a job organ
 
grinders....  it never ends I tells ya!!
Aaron
 
Wow, what a beneficial post!  Thank you for that...
Actually, I'm sure that the names of coffee will be stored into the machine (you could do that on the old ones easily) with correct settings and that beans will probably come in single serving packets so that all they have to do is put the grinder on a certain number (if they end up using different grind sizes, which I bet they don't) if they adjust the grind at all and there ya go... Clover really isn't that hard to use at all after someone does all the experimenting for you to really nail down the temp and dwell time per bean.
-Bry
Bryan Wray
NaDean's Coffee Place
Kalamazoo, MI
"It is my hope that people realize that coffee is more than just a caffeine delivery service, it can be a culinary art"- Chris Owens of Cafe Grumpy in NYC.
       
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

29) From: Coffee
I don't know how much more Starbucks pays it's shift supervisors. I've  
seen numbers anywhere from $0.50 - $1.00 per hour more than they pay a  
regular barista discussed on this list and in other articles. My point  
is that this is not enough more to make up for the loss of tips. I  
know that the company doesn't count tips as part of the compensation  
(they are not allowed to by law), but you can be sure the employees  
do. If the shift supervisors will indeed not be able to share in the  
tips, then Starbucks will have to pay them significantly more than  
$0.50 - $1.00 per hour more or no-one would take the job. Since you  
don't see the greed part, I'm pointing it out. It's right here. By  
ignoring the law they saved themselves a lot of money.
I'm not saying that the law is right and just. I'm saying that they  
knowingly violated it. With $100 million on the line now and more  
going forward, of course they are going to challenge the ruling. They  
may indeed get the law changed or exceptions put in.
I leap to conclusions. I jump on the bandwagon. I run off at the  
mouth. But I also bend over backwards and carry the ball. But I think  
we've beaten this dead horse enough and, after all, I don't have a dog  
in this race or even a leg to stand on.
I've never qualified for the Olympics before, this is cool ;-)
-Peter
On Mar 22, 2008, at 4:41 PM, Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

30) From: Brett Mason
Hey I was on the side rooting for you too!
Nice post,
Brett
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 7:45 PM, Coffee  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.comHomeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

31) From: Seth Grandeau
if starbucks had to compensate their supervisors more, due to a lack of tip
pooling, wouldn't they compensate their baristas less, since their tip pool
(with no supervisors) stands to be bigger?  I assume baristas make more than
minimum wage, but I could be very wrong about that, having never worked as
one.
At the end of the day, all these people knew how they were being compensated
and they all chose to work at Starbucks, over other options.
Here's one other thing to keep in mind.  If they win the suit, expect the
lawyers to get 1/2 to 3/4 of that money and the baristas to see very
little.  In nearly all class action cases, it's the lawyers who benefit from
a win, not the class.
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

32) From: Brett Mason
Seth, the main point of any class-action is to punish the flagrant
violator (THE CORPORATION), and to compensate the other party (THE
ATTORNEY)...  The barista - who?
yeah...
Brett
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 9:06 PM, Seth Grandeau  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.comHomeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

33) From: Aaron
Is this just covering the starbucks in california or all over? IF it 
spans multiple states then I wonder what the other states laws are 
concerning this... and if this suit could expand any.
still 100 million wow, that's an insane amount of money for just tips..  
I wonder how long now before the IRS goes, well gee, only 40 million in 
tip money was reported, so now we want our cut from the rest of ya!
gotta love it.
Aaron
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

34) From: Brett Mason
Aaron, it's the gift that keeps on giving!
Brett
On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 6:22 AM, Aaron  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.comHomeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

35) From: Seth Grandeau
Not "just tips" the 100M is "just the portion of the tips that were given to
supervisors". :)
On 3/23/08, Aaron  wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

36) From: stereoplegic
...and then you bitch when they raise their prices...
Coffee wrote:
<Snip>
-- http://www.homeroasters.org- homemade roasters, roaster mods, contests, much, much morehttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/houstonhomeroasters- homeroasters in Houston, TXhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gaggia/- Gaggia user group, help, maintenance, mods, etc">http://www.sweetmarias.com- the finest green coffee available anywhere coupled w/ amazing cupping notes, plus a wealth of roasting and brewing pointershttp://www.homeroasters.org- homemade roasters, roaster mods, contests, much, much morehttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/houstonhomeroasters- homeroasters in Houston, TXhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gaggia/- Gaggia user group, help, maintenance, mods, etc
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

37) From: Brett Mason
Is that what Starbucks did - take the tips, pay the supervisors, and
cut their costs in so doing?   Sounds like we have the whole thing
solved.  They don't even need to go to court anymore...
I just wonder if at the end of the day this thing settles out and we
learn that Starbucks pays higher than other places, and the tip was
not under their direct control. No worries, I agree that every
corporation is evil, and the big ones the most.  We'll levy big fines,
Starbucks will settle out of court, and all their critics will
proclaim victory over the evil empire.
But do we really know of evil intent or direct flagrant violation, or
is this just another corporate witch hunt?  OK, they burn their beans,
and they ARE evil...
Still I wonder...  this victory may not be a victory at all....
Brett
On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Seth Grandeau  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.comHomeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

38) From: Rich
It is somewhat interesting how some people never figure out who pays 
these fines, awards, or higher taxes isn't it.
stereoplegic wrote:
<Snip>
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

39) From: Joseph Robertson
It will and can be a victory if other small and large businesses alike take
note of what is going on here before they end up in the news like *$'s. Of
course taking notes is one thing. Now one has to give a hoot regarding basic
business ethics. Please read the third post again on this thread to
understand where I'm going with this. I and many others like the barista's
in question really want fair business practices. If I was working now for
them I would let them (the corporation and staff in question) keep the
bloody tips if they would change there ways regarding all this.
JoeR
On 3/23/08, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and pallet reform.
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

40) From: Aaron
Good thoughts joseph but in todays sue for anything I can because im a 
POS who wants any free handout I can get mentality driven world... the 
moment any other corporation tries to do the right thing and says, we 
messed up we want to make it right, someone, most likely some sleazebag 
lawyer trying to make a name for themselves will be right there saying 
so you ADMIT wrong doing, oh im suing now....
Kind of the proverbial catch 22.
Aaron
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

41) From: Joseph Robertson
Good Point Aaron,
JoeR
On 3/26/08, Aaron  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and pallet reform.
Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20


HomeRoast Digest