HomeRoast Digest


Topic: HG/BM Questions (40 msgs / 900 lines)
1) From: Jarred Vallozzi
I just bought a Regal bread machine and partway through my roast it shut off
and read HHH on the digital timer.  Is this a thermostat problem?
Secondly, I am using a Milwaukee 1220HS.  Does anyone have experience with
this gun?  I think it will be fine, but the 500g roast didn't progress very
quickly.  In fact, when the bread machine shut off, the beans looked tan
green with a black vein-ness to them.  I have never seen a bean look like
this in my popper.  I could use some words from the experienced.
-- 
-Jarred
"Let us dare to read, think, speak and write."
- John Adams
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2) From: Jim Gundlach
I really believe the way to go on bread machines for roasters is to  
bypass the automatic or program controls and put in manual switches.
      pecan jim
On Mar 21, 2008, at 5:31 PM, Jarred Vallozzi wrote:
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3) From: Vicki Smith
If the Regal has a thermostat embedded in the wall of the bread machine 
housing, you will have to disconnect it or move it to where it can't get 
a reading. See:http://coffeecrone.com/roasting/thermostat.htmVicki
Jarred Vallozzi wrote:
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4) From: raymanowen
Numbers! Settings! How were you holding the gun?
Do the same thing w/o beans or HG. My equipment is all different, but the
Dough cycle on my machine stops at 30 minutes. Of course, I'm all done by
then.
I think I got an Over temperature shutdown once. Let me translate- HHH means
Hotter tHan Hell. I pulled the pan and inverted the machine over the intake
of my cooling blower. In a few seconds, the motor started again and I
cooling it for about 30s more.
I toggled it Off and back On, and kept the HG buried in the bread pan so as
not to waste any heat overboard on the machine. It's run happily ever after.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
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5) From: Bill
Jarred,
Looking at the HG I see it's rated to 750 and 1000 F, so I would imagine
that the HG will have enough ooomph to roast your beans.
The neat thing about HG roasting vs popper is that it takes a while to dry
and tan the beans.  Many roasters argue that this is critical for a great
roast.  Sounds like your roast stopped while it was still drying.  Get that
BM problem fixed and go again.  I think you'll find the 2nd time is the
charm.
bill
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 4:31 PM, Jarred Vallozzi 
wrote:
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6) From: Vicki Smith
Hummm, I'm not so sure...
My HG is 1500-1000, rather than 1000-750. I find that the 1000 setting 
doesn't really do the trick. This may be a function of the outlet I plug 
into, but then again, Jarred might also have that issue as well.
I do go to the lower setting at points in some roasts, but never when I 
am starting the roast off.
vicki
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7) From: Bill
Good point, Vicki, I was probably speaking out of school... because
honestly, I use a BBQ at low to give a stabilizing heat source, due to cold
and wind in Cheyenne.  Later this spring I will figure it out with just the
HG.  But I use the Milwaukee 8986, which is rated to 1100, but i only use
about 1/2 heat most of the time...  so i should i mentioned that it seems
like that would be a good heat setting...
The HG instructional on Ed Needham's site sez that a HG needs to hit 750...
So ultimately I appreciate you saying this, because I need to profess my
ignorance.  Let's see what other HG-only users say about minimum heat...
bill
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 7:45 AM, Vicki Smith  wrote:
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8) From: Vicki Smith
My understanding is that the 750/1000/1500 etc is the number of watts, =
not the temperature.
On my Mastercraft gun, the 1000 watt setting produces a temperature of =
250 C (482 F) That would be the temp as it leaves the heat gun, not the =
temp that reaches the beans, several inches away from the nozzle.
On my gun, the 1500 watt setting is rated for 475 C (887 F).
I have no idea how close other guns are to this. I assume that the fans =
influence how much heat actually gets to the beans and that there is =
variation from HG to HG in this as well.
I roast in Red Deer, Alberta, Bill, so I feel your pain regarding cold =
weather roasting.
vicki
Bill wrote:
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ld
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he
<Snip>
..
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9) From: Jarred Vallozzi
After posting I opened up the bread machine and pulled out two wires that
were attached to the side of the bread machine.  No more HHH.
I roasted two pounds of junk beans I had laying around.  I preheated the pan
with the bake setting and then began to roast.  I kept the gun between 1 to
3 inches away from the beans and the roast took 20 minutes to 2nd crack.  Is
this too long?  The beans took 14 minutes to get to 1st crack, so it is
clear they took a long time to dry out.  My gun has a 1200 Watt rating and I
was thinking I should take it back and get a 1500 W gun.  Thoughts?
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 9:47 AM, Bill  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
-Jarred
"Let us dare to read, think, speak and write."
- John Adams
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10) From: Vicki Smith
Jarred, although my BM will roast 2 pounds at a time, I find I get 
better, more even, results with smaller roasts in the 3/4-1 1/4 pound range.
2 pounds of beans represents a whole lot of surface area that the heat 
needs to penetrate. It also means that the bean mass is deeper, so the 
beans spend some of the time further away from the HG then they do with 
a smaller roast.
Up until 2nd crack, the roasting process is exothermic--that is (as my 
non techie mind understands it) most of the heat for the roast comes 
from outside, in our case, from the HG. Two pounds is a whole lot to ask 
your heat gun to heat up, especially if it is cold out. Once you hit 2nd 
crack, the process is endothermic, with the heat coming from the bean 
mass itself driving the roast.
Before running out and getting a new heat gun, see what happens with a 
slightly smaller roast. I preheat by aiming the HG at the empty roast 
pan for a minute or two. It works just fine.
I generally hear the first snaps of first crack at about 8-10 minutes, 
depending on the bean. By 14 minutes, most of my roasts are over. I 
seldom go beyond FC+.
This is not, btw, the same advice I would give with an IR2 when people 
have a too slow roast and the advice there is to increase the roast size 
a tad. This is just a different situation.
vicki
Jarred Vallozzi wrote:
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11) From: Jarred Vallozzi
Please forgive me.  I should have been more specific.  I did not roast all 2
lbs at one time.  I ran 3 300g to 500g roasts, all with similar times.
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Vicki Smith  wrote:
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-- 
-Jarred
"Let us dare to read, think, speak and write."
- John Adams
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12) From: Gary Foster
Exothermic: reaction *releases* heat as a byproduct
Endothermic: reaction *absorbs* heat.
-- Gary F.
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Vicki Smith  wrote:
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13) From: Vicki Smith
That being the case, a new heat gun might be the solution. Before doing 
that, you also might try checking your outlet and making sure you have 
enough, urmmm (help me here RayO) juice.
vicki
Jarred Vallozzi wrote:
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14) From: Vicki Smith
See, I told you that I am not good at that part.
v
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15) From: Jarred Vallozzi
I could check my voltage, but I am in an apartment complex and have very few
options.  I have to run an extension cord.  I can only roast out on my
deck.  I have to rain chaff and jumpers down onto the decks below.  Nothing
I can do.
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 10:52 AM, Vicki Smith  wrote:
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-- 
-Jarred
"Let us dare to read, think, speak and write."
- John Adams
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16) From: Vicki Smith
Well, if you are on an extension cord and using a marginal heat gun, 
that could be the issue for sure.
v
Jarred Vallozzi wrote:
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17) From: Jarred Vallozzi
Yeah.  My only option at that point would be to boost the voltage, and it
would be less expensive to just purchase a more powerful heat gun.
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 11:09 AM, Vicki Smith  wrote:
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-- 
-Jarred
"Let us dare to read, think, speak and write."
- John Adams
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18) From: Tim Carter
Depends on the extension cord.  If you can switch to one that is 
substantially shorter with heavier gauge wire, it could make a difference.
Tim
Jarred Vallozzi wrote:
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19) From: Brian Kamnetz
I agree with Tim. I'm not Ray by any means, but I think this will be
pretty well agreed upon. If you are running, for example, a 100-foot,
16 ga extension cord, you will have a hard time finding a heat gun
that will do a good job. I would recommend the shortest extension cord
that will reach, and 12 ga.
Also, the bread machine probably offers pretty good shelter from any
breeze, but anything else you can do to limit the effect of a cold
breeze will help.
I use a heat gun and a mixing bowl, and I have found that placing the
bowl into a cardboard box (actually, a "Harvey" box from Sweet Maria)
does a good job of sheltering the roast from breeze, and also corrals
nearly all the chaff.
Brian
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 12:29 PM, Tim Carter  wrote:
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20) From: Jarred Vallozzi
I returned the Milwaukee and bought a Black 'n Decker that draws more
wattage and pushes a higher temp.  (1300 W, 1100 F).  I think with a shorter
and higher gauge (6 ft. 12 gauge) extension, I should be able to get the
roast time down to 16 min.  I'm about to go roast a batch.  I'll keep you
posted.  Thanks for all the input.
-Jarred
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 1:02 PM, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
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-- 
-Jarred
"Let us dare to read, think, speak and write."
- John Adams
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21) From: Brian Kamnetz
I'll be looking forward to hearing how it goes, Jarred.
Brian
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 3:30 PM, Jarred Vallozzi  wrote:
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22) From: Dennis Parham
I'm using a 5qt very deep KitchenAid stand mixer bowl! It works great!  
Keeps heat in an has handle on it... I just put on a work gloveon left  
hand and HG in right hand!! You can shake and shake as needed... Also  
these bowls have a convex bottom that helps distribute beans around on  
a shake... :-)
Dennis Parham
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 22, 2008, at 3:30 PM, Jarred Vallozzi   
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23) From: Bill
Jarred, sounds like you've gotten good advice today.  watching your
discussion with vicki develop, i would have recommended another HG with a
bit more ooomph.  so glad you went that route.  In general, i think you want
a HG with more heat than you need.  Not a ton, but a bit more.  So hopefully
you're gonna notice some difference in your roasting!
happy roasting
bill
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 1:30 PM, Jarred Vallozzi 
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24) From: Bill
hey vicki.
No, I wasn't referring to wattage, I was referring to degree rating... My
Milwaukee is rated for 1100 F.  I am curious, tho, what the temp actually is
as it comes out at the top heat rating...
But I really wanted to say that I've read your posts and know that you roast
in the cold cold!!!  I had a beautiful day here... sun was just coming up,
it was 20 F, no wind, blue sky... great for roasting!  I wouldn't trade it
for anything!
happy roasting.  hopefully spring is coming to alberta!
bill
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 8:11 AM, Vicki Smith  wrote:
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25) From: Vicki Smith
It's unseasonably warm here now, 42 F, and I am enjoying it 
tremendously. We'll barbecue tonight, for sure.
I have my eye on a newer model heat gun (same brand) that has a wider 
and very adjustable temp range and five different fan positions. It has 
a digital readout for both temperature and fan speed. I probably won't 
go for it until my heat gun bites the dust, and I'd have to see how 
heavy it is, but I'll be watching for sales on it, just the same.
Next winter I may be able to roast in a Behmor. Hummmmm....
v
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26) From: Bill
Vicki,
2 things: 1.  What make and model are you looking at?  I'd be interested in
watching for it for a while...
2.  While the coldness isn't tons of fun, I think there's a lot to be said
for HG roasting.  I've really been surprised by just how much control I have
over the heat profile.  I don't know if you've seen any of my posts, but
I've really been excited about using an IR thermometer to watch the bean
temps.  So with a HG setup, I've got control over heat into the roast,
reliable understanding of temps, all for about $150... half the price of the
Behmor...  just my musings.
Anyway, I've still got a ton to learn from roasting this way.  I have a lot
to learn about the way beans react the heat... what a fun hobby!
bill
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 3:24 PM, Vicki Smith  wrote:
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27) From: Jarred Vallozzi
Bill,
where did you get your IR thermometer?
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 6:22 PM, Bill  wrote:
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-- 
-Jarred
"Let us dare to read, think, speak and write."
- John Adams
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28) From: Bill
off Amazon.  Mastercool.  They actually increased the price since I bought
it, I got it for 33, which was a great price.  So far, I've been really
impressed by battery life on it.  And like I said, I like messing with temp
ramps for the beans.  I might start playing with a BM which would free up my
hands to record data...  But I also like standing around stirring beans
looking at the Wyo capitol dome.  I should take a pic of my roasting setup,
it's pretty nice when it's a beautiful day...
bill
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Jarred Vallozzi 
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29) From: Vicki Smith
I am looking at a gun which I think is a store brand for Canadian =
Tire--Mastercraft. I am not sure if you will be able to go directly to =
the page:http://tinyurl.com/2z3kocIf you can't, you can use my postal code (t4p2w2) at canadiantire.com =
and search on heat gun.
It is the Mastercraft Digital Heat Gun
$79.99
Product #54-6505-6
Here is the description:
Features
     * Includes with LCD display
     * 12.5A motor
     * 50 to 650C with digital display readout for both temperature =
and    	fan settings
     * Temperature memory
     * Adjustable fan control with five positions
     * Three position rocker switch (no heat, off, heat)
     * 12' power cord
     * Horizontal stabilizer, vertical stability to 15
     * Includes 9 accessories and carrying case with injected handles
I've seen your IR posts--intriguing. The three weeks of really, really =
cold weather we had this year has me thinking about the Behmor, if I can =
afford one next year. It was between -30 C and -40 C for far too long.
That being said, I love my BM/HG, and as cold as it was, I still didn't =
pull out the IR2.
Vicki
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30) From: Bill
I hadn't seen a HG with an electronic temp control... but it makes sense.
 That seems nice that you can step the temp up or down as you wish...  Guess
I'll have to look for a similar one here in the states...
in cheyenne, the issue isn't the cold, you can bundle for that... it's the
wind.  and it's windy here a lot, so you have to watch the weather and see
if you get a night that is good, or an early morning without wind...  but
wouldn't trade it!
Gave a 1/4 lb of decaf to a person this afternoon and sent them to
sweetmarias... perhaps another one...
bill
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 5:10 PM, Vicki Smith  wrote:
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31) From: Jarred Vallozzi
I just finished a 400g roast of a Brazil Yellow Bourbon.  9:10 - 1st crack.
15:50 - 2nd crack.
I ran the HG on low in between first and second for 2 minutes, which yielded
a 5 min interim.  Success.  Thank you for the guidance.
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 7:23 PM, Bill  wrote:
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ee.com
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-- =
-Jarred
"Let us dare to read, think, speak and write."
- John Adams
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32) From: Vicki Smith
That's great Jarred. I hope you enjoy your coffee now!! I think you will 
find that between the different power levels and the ability to vary the 
distance from the beans, you will have quite a bit of control. Over 
time, you will learn how to get what you're after for a particular bean.
I'm assuming you are talking about the interval from the beginning (well 
except for the odd early birds) of first to the beginning of second. 
With my heat gun, I have to be careful not to switch to the low heat 
setting too soon, or I will stall the roast. I generally wait until 
first is really well established. YMMV.
vicki
Jarred Vallozzi wrote:
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33) From: Allon Stern
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ZW1wIG9uIHRoZSAgCm91dHB1dCBpZiB0aGUgaGVhdCBndW4uIElmIHlvdSB3YW50IHRvIGtub3cg
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ZD03ODIw

34) From: Brett Mason
Actually, you have to get inside each bean, measuring temperature at
the surface, partway to the middle, and at the center of each and
every bean, without interrupting the roast.  Then you'll have the temp
down perfect...
You should checkout www.temperaturescientists.org as they ahve some
tremendous studies on the subject.  Their "Millipede COnnector" looks
best for such a temp measurement - it's in the Products section, but I
forget which page it is one.
Alternately, you can measure in the middle of the heap, but outside of
ANY bean, and then become dogmatic on temperature accuracy...  You
could pre-wire the beans, with individual probes.  Still the precision
roaster must ask if these probes add any bad flavors to the beans.
This is so complex...
Brett
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 11:23 PM, Allon Stern  wrote:
<Snip>
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<Snip>
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35) From: Bill
Yeah, but to have a legitimate sense of heat input would still be a massive
step up in control on a HG as opposed to a dial with maybe 5, maybe 10
settings... a digital readout of heat output from the HG (if its remotely
accurate) would be a big help in controlling a roast even more.  Sure, just
because you're pumping out 900 F doesn't mean that the roast is 900 F... but
it's good to know what's coming out of the gun...bill
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 10:23 PM, Allon Stern  wrote:
<Snip>
ee.com
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36) From: Rich
Unless you understand what impact the volume of hot air from the heat 
gun has on the heat transfer rate to the beans, the manner in which you 
decide to expose the beans to this hated air, and the temperature of the 
hated air at the point of contact with the beans that temperature 
reading is of a very minimal value.
Bill wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
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37) From: Vicki Smith
I would hope that over time, with decent record keeping, the kind of 
knowledge of basic profiling one gets here on the list, and attention 
paid to cup quality, most folks could learn to make good use of things 
like the heat and fan readouts on a heat gun.
After all, even though I will not ever know the exact result of 
increasing the heat out of the gun by 50 degrees has on internal bean 
temperature, I should be able to tell if it produces a more pleasing cup 
of coffee.
I'm guessing that you are not saying, Rich, that absent an ability to 
read the inside temp of the beans, this kind of information is useless.
vicki
Rich wrote:
<Snip>
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38) From: Allon Stern
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39) From: Allon Stern
On Mar 23, 2008, at 8:57 AM, Rich wrote:
<Snip>
For someone who hates air so much, you seem to be doing an awful lot  
of breathing ;)
-
allon
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40) From: raymanowen
"I ... pulled out two wires that were attached
to the side of the bread machine.  No more HHH."
Was one of them a Line and the other a Neutral? That would sure stop HHH and
everything else.
With a Wagner HT-1000 HG, I normally hold it much closer to the beans than
you do, I think, but I move it around. On the Dough cycle, my machine
"kneads" the beans for 28 sec and stops for 2 seconds. It quits at 30
minutes.
When it stops for 2 seconds, I move the HG in an arc around the interior of
the pan to avoid obliterating small volumes of beans.
Your 1200 watt gun should be adequate. Remember, the BM motor draws a couple
of hundred watts. The bigger heat gun would put your power draw up near the
limit for a normal 120v circuit if the HG/ BM are on the same circuit.
Just hold the 1200w heat gun closer to the beans and keep it moving. You'll
have all the roasting power you need without using more electric power.
I found 900g (2 lbs) was the very limit of roasting with my $24 Wagner HG.
No comfortable heat reserve- gotta conserve all the heat possible.
If we're flying from Hawaii to Manila, Philippines and it takes us
11.5hours to get there, it would be a cold day where it ought to be
hot for the
captain to shut down the engines at 11:00 hours and just coast because we
should have the gear down and be landing already!
That deep blue color is deep and wet.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
"Thanks for nothing" - - -Traditional Native American Thanksgiving prayer
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