HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Caffeine via inhalation? (16 msgs / 453 lines)
1) From: neal
Sometimes after roasting I feel a buzz similar to that of a "caffeine high".
Is it possible that the caffeine in the beans is vaporizing? or is something
else in the roast smoke that causes this?
Neal
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2) From: Kelly Wilson
My bet would be respondent stimulus control. A fancy name for a  
learned response to some stimulating event. The smell of coffee has  
been reliably correlated with caffeine intake. Your body starts moving  
before the first drop hits your belly. I have done a fair amount of  
research and treatment development in the area of addictions and such  
effects are well known in the substance dependence and psychopharm  
literature.
Of course, there is no substitute for an experimental analysis of  
behavior, but that would be my guess. I don't know about aerosolized   
caffeine, could be, but would not be necessary to explain what you are  
talking about.
k
On Mar 25, 2008, at 10:13 AM, neal wrote:
<Snip>
Kelly G. Wilson
205 Peabody Building
Psychology Department
University of Mississippi
Oxford, MS 38677
ph: 662.915.5256
fax: 662.915.5398
(do not use either of these spring '08 or any summer)
ph: 662.816.5189 (best phone number)
fax: 662.236.3202
homepage:http://www.olemiss.edu/working/kwilson/kwilson.htmHomeroast mailing list
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3) From: David Rossell
I think there was a study a few years back when scientists aerosolized
caffeine (and some other drugs) and sprayed them on orb web spiders.
Apparently the web patterns that spiders wove changed, depending on the drug.
There were pictures of the webs and the differences were pretty distinct.
David Rossell
Administrator of Network Services and Planning
Norwood School
8821 River Rd.
Bethesda, MD 20817
(301) 841-2178
drossell

4) From: miKe mcKoffee
Yes, some caffeine is released in the roast smoke. Which is the reason
darker roasts have a bit less caffeine than lighter roast of same bean.
Roasting in an unventilated area with poor smoke evacuation you can
definitely get buzzed.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
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5) From: kevin creason
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 10:25 AM, David Rossell 
wrote:
<Snip>
here is the educational video of the studyhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHzdsFiBbFcHomeroast mailing list
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6) From: raymanowen
Especially when you trigger one of the calibrated smoke detectors. But
that's one of my roast level indicators...
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
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7) From: Jim Gundlach
Back when I wok roasted I had to quit roasting late in the day because  
I could not get to sleep.  I also think someone posted some  
Occupational health research on workers in coffee roasters who had too  
high caffeine intake from inhaling the smoke from the roasters.  So,  
yes you can get a real caffeine high from inhaling the smoke when  
roasting.
      pecan jim
On Mar 25, 2008, at 10:21 AM, Kelly Wilson wrote:
<Snip>
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8) From: Bryan Wray
Which is the reason darker roasts have a bit less caffeine than lighter roast of same bean.
Actually miKe, this statement isn't true.  A bean loses density quicker than it burns off
caffeine because caffeine needs such a high temperature to vaporize.  Although it's
supposedly "common knowledge" that light roasts have more caffeine than dark roasts it's
just one of those statements that isn't true.  It is true that a bean loses more caffeine
the longer it is roasted, but it loses more density than it does caffeine, meaning that there
is a higher concentration of caffeine/bean.  I can't remember/find the source for this info,
but if I do I will post it here.  I'm more than open for someone's opposing argument on this,
by the way, it's something I would love to better understand.
-Bry
Bryan Wray
NaDean's Coffee Place
Kalamazoo, MI
"It is my hope that people realize that coffee is more than just a caffeine delivery service, it can be a culinary art"- Chris Owens of Cafe Grumpy in NYC.
       
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9) From: miKe mcKoffee
Guess depends on whether going by weight or volume. For a given weight of
beans darker roast higher density caffeine, but for a given volume of beans
darker roast less caffeine. 
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
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10) From: Bryan Wray
Yeah that helps clarify things in my head a little... doesn't matter much to me anyway, I've been blessed by not being affected by caffeine... I get to drink coffee all day long!  Na na na na naaaa na. :0)
-Bry
 
"It is my hope that people realize that coffee is more than just a caffeine delivery service, it can be a culinary art"- Chris Owens of Cafe Grumpy in NYC.
       
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11) From: Rich
There are studies that indicate people who consume more than 5 cups of 
coffee a day every day are immune to the stimulant effect of caffeine. 
They are addicted to the caffeine however and if they quit the coffee 
cold turkey will suffer headaches etc.
Bryan Wray wrote:
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12) From: sci
I agree with Kelly on this. I have noticed over the years that when I
deeply inhale freshly ground coffee (just the aroma, not the grounds :-) in
the morning that it definitely perks me up just like I was drinking it. In
fact, the first thing I do after grinding any bean is firmly plant my nose
deep in the bin and take several whiffs, first lots of small dog sniffs,
then a deep full chested inhalation. I especially love the way Yirgs smell.
Anyway, I swear I cop a buzz just from the pungent aroma. This is simply
psychology 101 "Pavolov's dogs" stuff going on here. It is classical
behavioral conditioning. Kelly could probably give us an accurate lecture on
this.
Ivan
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:25:13 -0400
From: "David Rossell" 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Caffeine via inhalation?
To: 
Message-ID:
       <501D2A81DE79734DA68707E901EE33BD014D7BEB>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
I think there was a study a few years back when scientists aerosolized
caffeine (and some other drugs) and sprayed them on orb web spiders.
Apparently the web patterns that spiders wove changed, depending on the
drug.
There were pictures of the webs and the differences were pretty distinct.
David Rossell
Administrator of Network Services and Planning
Norwood School
8821 River Rd.
Bethesda, MD 20817
(301) 841-2178
drossell

13) From: neal
I don't just feel "perked up", I feel a full-on buzz with the jitters and
everything. Normally I drink about 3 cups per day, but after roasting I feel
as if I just drank an entire pot of coffee. If it was just a learned
response, I would feel this way every time I did anything that had to do
with coffee, whether it was roasting, grinding, or brewing.
Neal
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 6:35 PM, sci  wrote:
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14) From: Floyd Lozano
The fix is simple - sit down.  The hot air carries the smoke upwards,
so if you stay below it (and this is good advice in a fire, too) as
much as possible, you will inhale much less smoke.  I started doing
this when I noticed the effects you mention here.  It was very very
noticeable when RK drum roasting outside, 3lb of beans == mass smoke!
When I have to roast indoors, I open a window at the bottom and at the
top I put one of those dual window fans set on exhaust.  Again, the
smoke rises, so this clears the room (kitchen in my case) more
quickly.  A good stove hood would be much better, and I may actually
install one this summer!
-F
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 11:05 PM, neal  wrote:
<Snip>
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15) From: Kelly Wilson
The explanations are not mutually exclusive. For example, a very small  
amount of a drug can produce strong conditioned responses. I describe  
in great detail my morning espresso ritual in my grad and undergrad  
learning courses. In particular there are these really clear physical  
changes that occur with the first small sip of coffee. The  
physiological impact far outstrip the small amount of caffeine in that  
first tiny sip. My point here is that it is a mistake to imagine that  
pharmacological effects are independent of psychological effects. They  
go hand in hand. The contrary is also true. You can get markedly  
different physiological effects from the same dose of a drug. A  
personal example: I _only_ drink coffee in the early morning. I am a  
poor sleeper and have to exercise very good sleep hygiene. One piece  
of that is no caffeine after noon. Typically, never after nine AM. I  
drink a big dose during a very circumscribed time, every single day.  
Once in a while though, I will get weak, out to dinner, with a friend  
at lunch, and I will drink a single espresso. I invariably regret it.  
I end up feeling jittery and agitated. My morning cup, by contrast,  
even though it is a massively larger dose, never gives me the jitters.  
The physical experience is quite pleasant, soothing even. Why? Context  
and a history with that context. It is the interaction psychological  
and physiological effects. These always work together. Different  
histories, different bodies, different synergy. But always working  
together.
k
On Mar 25, 2008, at 10:05 PM, neal wrote:
<Snip>
Kelly G. Wilson
205 Peabody Building
Psychology Department
University of Mississippi
Oxford, MS 38677
ph: 662.915.5256
fax: 662.915.5398
(do not use either of these spring '08 or any summer)
ph: 662.816.5189 (best phone number)
fax: 662.236.3202
homepage:http://www.olemiss.edu/working/kwilson/kwilson.htmHomeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

16) From: Dave Huddle
Way back in Organic Chemistry lab (about 45 years ago) one of the
experiments we did involved purifying caffeine by sublimation.
Caffeine passed from the solid state to a gas, then condensed again to
give really pretty crystals, leaving impurities behind. As I recall,
it didn't take lots of heat for sublimation to occur.
So I suspect that some caffeine is vaporized during roasting, and
longer/darker roasting would likely lead to a greater loss of
caffeine.
According to one source, caffeine sublimes at 178C (352 F).
Dave
Westerville, OH
On 3/25/08, Bryan Wray  wrote:
<Snip>
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