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Topic: Behmor Profiles and Settings (14 msgs / 643 lines)
1) From: John and Emma
Hi All,
I have noticed a huge support for the Behmor. =
If I chose this roaster I'm wondering what people's experience is with the
profiles. According to Behmor the profiles are based on hardness of bean and
whether it is an island bean or not. As a Newbie how do you know the
hardness of the bean? I didn't see a reference to this in Tom's evaluations.
What have been people's personal preferences? In previous listings I've
noted how people have adjusted time at the beginning of the profile and
there seems to be a slight preference for P2. Why would this be?
Can you explain what the different profiles will do to the taste of a bean?
I have only used a popper before. This would obviously be like a P1 on the
Behmor? So I'm a little nave when it comes to roasting profiles. =
John

2) From: Gary Foster
Right now all I'm using is P2 and P3.  I have used P1 once, P5 once and =
haven't used P4 at all yet.
I use P3 for my brazilian beans and espresso stuff.  I've been using P2 =
for everything else, although I've experimented with P3 for some other =
stuff too and am starting to lean more towards it on a few things.
Bear in mind I'm a total noob though, but I have learned that the =
profiles do indeed result in different tastes.  I've done about 18 =
roasts so far (don't have my notes handy for an exact count).
Generally what I end up doing is the first time I roast a bean, I make =
sure I take careful notes of the times to 1st and 2nd crack (if I take =
it into 2c, I have stopped before it on a few so far).  Then, if I'm =
going to use P2 for that bean in the future, I adjust the time *BEFORE* =
hitting start so that the power drop will come right at or maybe =
slightly after first crack.  If it so happens that the profile time =
matches how long I want to roast, that's great... otherwise I monitor it =
and hit cool manually.
If I'm going to use P3 for that bean, I adjust the time (again *before* =
hitting start) so that the profile time matches how long I want the =
roast to go (i.e. stopping it right at the start of 2C, stopping 10 =
seconds into it, or just short of it).  I try to get my P3 roasts dialed =
in to the point where I don't have to hit cool manually and let it trip =
automatically.
I tweak the times on succeeding runs until I'm either out of those beans =
or I'm dead on.  It usually only takes me 2 roasts to get my profile =
dialed in where I want it.
How do I choose between P2 and P3?  I dunno, honestly.  It's still kind =
of voodoo to me and I use my taster as my guide.  I'm using P2 for stuff =
that I'm roasting darker (like my wife's french roast blend) and a few =
other beans that aren't brazilian or island stuff or an espresso blend. =
  I'm using P3 for everything else.
I've done a couple of side-by-sides on the same batch of beans and =
discovered that p2 tastes better on some (to my palate anyway) =
especially if I can get the profile timed to stretch out the time =
between cracks (the reason for the power drop in P2) and I like it =
better for the couple of african beans I've done so far.  The yirga =
cheff is a tossup, it seems to be a little more lemony on p3 to me, but =
if you want to subdue the lemon go for a P2 roast (or roast it closer to =
2nd crack on P3, does the same sort of thing).  The brazilian daterra I =
roasted up was completely different between the two profiles, on P2 it =
was flat and kind of listless but on P3 it had a rich and spicy =
nuttiness to it that I quite liked and it pulls awesome espresso shots =
like liquid honey.  I did some Kenyan Lenana on P5 that was just plain =
terrible.  It was really good on P2.
I also take notes on every batch I roast (and keep them in a spreadsheet).
The reason why I adjust the time before I hit start instead of after is =
because it stretches the *entire* profile equally and modifies all the =
legs to match the percentages.  If I wait until I hit start, then it =
only stretches the following legs.  I'm sure you can manipulate it to do =
what you want, but I'm pretty much a complete noob and don't want to =
confuse myself trying to do that kind of math (*and* that kind of =
notekeeping).
Let your taster be your guide, do some comparisons and pretty soon =
you'll decide which you like better for YOUR taster.
I hope this helps... if anything is way off base, bear in mind I am NOT =
an expert and can't hold a candle to the collective knowledge level of =
the rest of these guys :)
-- Gary F.
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3) From: Paul
John, when I first got my BEHMOR, I tested the 1/4 lb and 1/2 lb settings at all the profiles, and 1 lb settings at P3 and P4 settings,  using the same green beans for all roasts. All the 1/4 and 1/2 lb roasts ended up nearly identical , C to C+. With the 1 lb roasts, a City roast. My taste buds may not be that sharp because I couldn't really tell the difference from one profile to the next. Being fresh homeroast, they all tasted good to me! From a previous phone conversation I'd had with Joe Behmor, I was expecting most of the profiles to end up with a similar roast, and that is indeed how it turned out for me. Joe had also told me that I would probably end up using one or two profiles for everything, which I did, using P3 alone. If you want a darker roast, use 3 oz at the 1/4lb setting, 6-7 oz at the 1/2lb setting, and 12-13 oz at the 1 lb setting. Start with the P3 profile. After Start, increase the time to maximum allowed. Hitting Cool just before you reach one roast leve
 l wanted. The bean's roast will continue briefly at the beginning of the Cool cycle. Over simplified perhaps, but it satisfies my tasted buds!
PAUL CARDER
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4) From: Rich
A popper is not really comparable to a Behmor.  A corn popper is like =
roasting coffee in the exhaust gas stream from a blast furnace while the =
Behmor is much closer to a commercial drum roaster.
Explaining the profiles and the why and how of the adding of time is =
explained in detail in the manual. =http://behmor.com/pdf/Behmor_Manual_full_v3.3.pdfAfter reading the manual, part IV and V, graphs on page 16 in particular =
if you still have specific questions someone here can provide an answer.
As to hard and soft beans, with beans from SM it does not seem to be a =
big issue.  In other words, a minor consideration.
John and Emma wrote:
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5) From: Les
On 4/3/08, Rich  wrote:
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Very true!  The Behmor gives an amazing number of options considering the
price.  You have a lot of profile flexibility, but most important you have
repeatability!   John you are not going to get all of the answers from us.
You have to get in and take the plunge and experment yourself.  For the
money you can't get a better roaster than the Behmor.  I have roasted on
many many roasters.  The only popper that I have seen in action that
compares to a good drum is Plain Mike's Ubber Popper.  However the double
PID modified roaster will cost you a lot of bucks and require a lot of
tinkering, AND you will sitll have to take the plunge and experment
yourself.  For homeroasting, here is how I would rate what is out there in
terms of giving you something better than a popper.
1. United States Roaster Corp 1 pound roaster  Current cost well over
$4,000.00
2. San Franciscan 1 pound roaster Current cost well over $5,000.00
3. Probatino 1 Kilo Roaster current cost well over $10,000.00
4. Hottop cost between $600-$1,000
5. RK drum set-up around $450.00
6. Behmor around $300.00
7. Genie Cafe around $500.00
These are all roasters that will do most of the work for you.  In my
experience with practice, a good heat-gun-- (wok; bread-machine; or dogbowl)
roasts an awesome batch of coffee.  You just need a method of cooling as
well.  Not plug and play, but you can get in for less than a hundred bucks
easy.
If I were a new roaster, I would get a Behmor and not look back.  My currant
roasters are a USRC 1 pound roaster and a Behmor.  I have roasted on all of
the ones listed above and many more.  I was a Popper roaster for 18 years.
Les
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6) From: Lynne
Les wrote:
For homeroasting, here is how I would rate what is out there in
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I would add:
8. Stove top pan & wooden spoon: $12.00
:P
Lynne
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7) From: Stephen Carey
And lets not forget what goes in the roaster.  Stay at SMs and you 
will be fine.  Most of the work is done for us by Tom and his 
team.  We get to purchase the best green beans out there and that 
adds to the difference between what you roast and what you buy 
already brewed.  I still remember my first roast on my IR2, I am sure 
I didn't do everything perfect, I know I didn't.  But the beans were 
so good to start with that as long as I was in the ballpark I was 
going to have one of the best cup of coffee I have ever had - and 
darn if I didn't get just that, one heck of a brewed pot from my 
first roast, using everything I got from SMs - roaster to bags to beans.
Stephen
At 04:52 PM 4/3/2008, you wrote:
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8) From: David Rossell
I mostly use P3 set at a higher weight rating than I have in the roaster (1
lb for a half-pound, typically).  I really like P3 for the lighter roasts,
but I find that the beans at P3 tend to pass from first into second cracks a
little too quickly to manage well.  I've started opening the door a bit for
the darker roasts to bleed out some heat without stalling the roast.  I've
liked P2 for the darker roasts, too.
David Rossell
Administrator of Network Services and Planning
Norwood School
8821 River Rd.
Bethesda, MD 20817
(301) 841-2178
drossell

9) From: Vicki Smith
Hummm, I am not sure how true this is, and I would love it if I could 
get some other opinions. My (albeit limited) understanding is that a 
beans hardness/softness is dependent on the altitude at which it is 
grown, and that the term hard bean generally means a bean that is grown 
at 3000 feet or more.
My (again limited) knowledge suggests that the hardness/altitude does 
impact decisions on profiles--no matter who is buying the beans.
For example, in the IR2 instructions, Tom says this about bean profiles 
for softer/lower altitude beans:
"Island Coffees: Coffees from Jamaica, Hawaii, and to a lesser degree 
Puerto Rico, have a lower bean density because these island coffees do 
not have the altitudes of such origins as Kenya. They benefit from a 
lower initial temperature during the warmup time."
I'd love to hear from some of our folks who have done a whole lot of 
profiling and have them weigh in on this.
Vicki
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10) From: John Despres
Hi, Vicki.
I posted this a couple weeks ago. Tom responded and said for the most =
part altitude is one key to bean density. I cannot find his response or =
I'd post that as well. Keep in mind this is not a hard & fast rule, =
there are variations.
"As a general rule, altitude is your first clue. If you know where the =
bean is grown, you can find the altitude. This is the first part of =
study when I prepare to roast a new bean.
Hard beans - Grown above 5000 feet - Examples: Kenyas, Guatamala SHB
Medium hard beans grown between 3500 and 5000 feet - Examples: Brazil, =
Java, Sumatra, most Latin American coffees
Soft beans - grown below 3500 feet - Examples: Hawaiian, Caribbean"
John
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-- =
John A C Despres
Hug your kids
616.437.9182
Scene It All Productions 
JDs Coffee Provoked Ramblings =
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11) From: John Despres
I found it! Here's my post with Tom's response. The depth of the crack =
is something I read somewhere and Tom adds much more to it.
John
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Thats a good summary ... although you can certainly buy low-grown Guats, =
etc. Lotsa people do! Some origins have definite altitude limitations, =
such as Hawaii where you simply can't grow coffee very high or it never =
matures. I am not sure I follow you on the depth of the seam in the =
coffee. Soft coffees tend to open more in the seam, whereas dense =
coffees stay tight. You will sometimes see fissures at the end of the =
seam in softer coffees. This, like all things in coffee, is not a hard =
and fast rule, as I have seen dense coffees that crack at the end etc. =
It depends a lot on how the coffee was dried too.
Tom
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John A C Despres
Hug your kids
616.437.9182
Scene It All Productions 
JDs Coffee Provoked Ramblings =
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12) From: Rick Copple
Lynne wrote:
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Or, zero if you already have them. I mean, yeah, you most likely paid 
something for them at some point, but if you already have them, then no 
capital outlay required. I have a popper which I started out using, and 
that as has been said, created my first cup of homeroast at which I 
drank in stunned amazement. Then went to the wok, and mastered that 
pretty much. A lot of work, but both the popper and wok were already on 
hand, so I've never, until this month, spent a dime on a roaster. All my 
money has gone to beans and ways to brew. I have two vacpots, a moka 
pot, a plastic thermos pour-over, a one-cup pour-over, a french press, 
(used to have a drip coffee maker, but no more), an Aero-press, and oh 
yes, bought a Zass.
Now that I have the Behmor, I can say I can taste some difference, 
especially in the lower roast levels. I is worth the money, without a 
doubt, but of course I never had the money until recently to even 
consider it (thanks to my new job and work I'm getting currently from a 
client).
But, after over 4 years of homeroasting, this month I spent my first 
penny on a roaster. The cool thing about this is you can spend as little 
or as much as you are able and want to spend. In either case, you are 
going to get the best coffee (assuming you don't set every roast you do 
on fire because you keep falling asleep...roasting smoke induces deep 
sleep!)
-- 
Rick Copplehttp://www.rlcopple.com/Homeroast mailing list
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13) From: Eddie Dove
Browning beans is easy; bean density is only of significant relevance when
attempting to work cooperatively with the precursors to exquisite elixir.
Regardless of whether I am going to roast in the RK Drum, Gene Cafe or
Behmor 1600, the density of the bean is one of the factors that is
considered prior to the  beginning any roast so that the appropriate profile
can be applied for getting the most out of the bean.
When Aaron gifted me the Behmor, part of the deal was that he would receive
the first roasts out of the Behmor.  I studied the information provided in
the manual about matching the different built-in profiles with respect to
bean density and reviewed the graphs.  Also noted was that the maximum
temperature of the Behmor (482F) was the same as the Gene Cafe with whic=
h I
was quite familiar; this was a helpful tidbit of information too.  By the
time I called Joe Behm for a consultation, I pretty much knew what type of
profile I wanted to apply to the beans.  I just had to learn how to use the
appliance to apply that profile to the beans.  The first batch was close,
but not was I was shooting for.  On the second attempt at roasting 1/2 pound
of the Brazil Cerrado Screen-Dried Moreninha Formosa, I was quite happy with
the results and it was similar to the results I get with the profile I use
in the RK Drum.
The profile was: 1/2, P3 (12 min), Start, + to 14:15, opened door for
cooling and used small shop vac to assist the cooling (tip I got from Les).
Bean density is a highly useful bit of information in the pursuit of the
perfect cup ...
I hope this helps ...
Eddie
-- =
Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Referencehttp://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 7:25 PM, Vicki Smith  wrote:
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14) From: Vicki Smith
Thanks, John. Yes, I remember that post now, too. I have always tried to 
take bean hardness into account as I roasted, which is why I responded 
as I did. I just wanted some confirmation and expansion on this as I am 
not exactly one of the more experienced roasters in this neck of the woods.
John Despres wrote:
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