HomeRoast Digest


Topic: How long before you grind? (15 msgs / 371 lines)
1) From: Jenni Spinner
Hello from a newbie, who's wondering if there's any discernible taste
difference if you roast and grind shortly before brewing, or if you roast in
the evening and grind/brew in the morning.
Thanks,
S
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2) From: Barry Luterman
Most coffees need to rest 48 to 72 hours  after roasting and before brewing.
There are only a few coffees which can be brewed just after roasting. On the
other end of the spectrum there are coffees which need to wait 10 days to 2
weeks before brewing.
On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 1:43 PM, Jenni Spinner 
wrote:
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3) From: Paul Helbert
There are changes. They differ with different coffees. Try it for
yourself. Roast, grind, brew & taste. Repeat in the morning. Again the
next day, etc. See what you like best.
What you'd' like to do is compare different ages of the same roast at
one moment in time, but until you've been at it awhile no two roasts
will be the same. Even for experienced roasters repeatable does not
mean identical.
-- 
Paul Helbert
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4) From: Bill
Was talking with a homeroasting buddy today over a couple of cuppas... we
both observed that when we started roasting, fresh-roasted was amazing (both
of us were transitioning from whole beans from places like Starbucks).
 After a while, we both started to notice that rest caused changes.  I
remember being blown away by reading that stuff on the list 6 months ago.
 So I've been experimenting a lot with resting different coffees and seeing
what that does, and how it affects the flavors.  A month ago, I was advised
that one bean was best on 2 weeks rest, and it was true!!
I've found some beans that are ready to go at 72 hours, some that need quite
a bit longer.  But man, as a newbie, I'd just advise, roast, drink, roast
some more, and just enjoy what you've found!  The nuances of this
hobby/passion/obsession are wonderful!
In't coffee grand??
bill
On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Paul Helbert  wrote:
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5) From: Sandy Andina
I prefer to grind right before brewing each pot, cup or shot, but for  
expediency's sake for my family members who get up earlier than I and  
just wish to do no more than push a button, I grind and fill the drip  
machine the night before.
On Apr 3, 2008, at 6:49 PM, Barry Luterman wrote:
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Sandy Andina
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6) From: Jim Gundlach
Jenni,
       I see part of home roasting as something that allows you to  
directly learn the effect resting has on the taste of coffees.  Also,  
it gives you a chance to check on the validity of what people on the  
list recommend.  I predict that you will find most people recommending  
a three day rest for most coffees.  But, try it yourself and see if  
you will be inclined to trust what list members recommend latter on.   
Just wait until you ask about needing a new grinder.
      pecan jim
On Apr 3, 2008, at 6:43 PM, Jenni Spinner wrote:
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7) From: Joseph Robertson
Oh no the grinder thing. Known for being one of the deepest threads this
list has ever seen.
If you ever need grinder help it's best to check SM's archives first.
JoeR
On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 5:26 PM, Jim Gundlach  wrote:
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8) From: Rick Copple
Jenni Spinner wrote:
<Snip>
Some of what has been said on resting times doesn't provide enough 
context. Based on what Tom says on his site, after you roast a coffee, 
it usually needs a minimum of four hours to degass the CO2 out. If you 
brew a cup right after roasting, you will notice a sharp edge to the 
flavors. Some people like that.
But after four hours, it is really just a change in flavor more than 
anything. So when they are saying is that certain beans peak at their 
prime flavors (for them) between certain times. And there are some beans 
whose flavors really blossom after a certain amount of rest period has 
passed.
But, keep in mind, that most peak flavors happen within the window of 
1-10 days after roasting. After that, the beans accelerate in going 
stale. Doesn't mean they won't taste good still after that, but they 
will no longer be at their peak flavors...they're going downhill after 
that point, essentially. It's just that you see some saying after two 
weeks, because they prefer certain beans at that stage of going stale.
Myself, I roast around two pounds a week. I drink a couple 16oz cups a 
day, and switch back and forth. I frequently roast one day and drink the 
next. But, if my roasted stash has dropped to nil, I've been known to 
roast in the popper for a quick, no hassle roast and immediately brew 
them. They have that edge, but it still taste pretty darn good, and much 
better than having nothing. Though I do brew an occasional cup of tea too.
So, my beans rarely last more than just over a week, around ten days at 
the most. And most of the time, I find the flavors the best a couple or 
three days after roasting, and still very good a few days after that. 
But unless you know a certain bean requires a two week rest, needs that 
staling time to knock off some sharp tastes that mess it up, I would 
rarely let a bean sit for two weeks. By then it is well into the staling 
stage. Some roasters here are known for throwing away any beans more 
than 10 days old (I don't do that, but I've heard some do).
But the moral of the story is, everyone's taste is different, and in the 
end, you simply have to try beans out at different rest periods to find 
out what you like. You may find you love the flavors of most beans after 
a two week rest. Myself, I don't see how I could wait that long!
Most of the time, though, if I roast at night, I'll get a cup the next 
morning. Once the degassing has passed, I dig in. After all, I have a 
whole two pounds of coffee. I'll get to experience both of them through 
the whole resting stage, experience each delectable flavor it can 
produce. I guess I like variations. :)
-- 
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9) From: Bob Hazen
Perhaps I'm misreading your post, but methinks you wanted to know the extent 
ground coffee declines during the interval between grinding and brewing. 
All the follow-up posts on resting are a good reads.  Rest, the time between 
roasting and brewing, is an often discussed issue.  Many folks don't realize 
that coffee will peak in flavor some hours or after the roast.  Probably 
this is because the coffee they buy has already peaked and is in the 
downhill slope.
I don't believe you would notice much degradation in taste if you ground 
8-12 hours before brewing.  Still, considering the aroma that would be 
loosed in the process, it represents flavor not in your cup.  I think you'll 
find most of us grind right before brewing, because we can.  With a grinder 
nearby it's easy enough.  It's known that ground coffee stales much quicker 
than whole bean, so why compromise?  Now if you don't have a grinder in 
close proximity do the best you can to minimize the interval.  Your coffee 
will still be better than nearly all the stuff commonly available.
Bob

10) From: John Despres
Joe.
I agree up to a point. The archives do indeed answer just about every =
question. However, many new folk would not know that. Their question is =
brand new and that's why they've come here! The best part is new people =
weigh in on a particular question with new ideas and the archives don't =
necessarily present the topic the way a member may be thinking of it. I =
for one, don't mind the repeats. Otherwise we'd still be talking about =
Starbucks closing for training.
Jenni,
Grinding too far in advance decays the quality of the coffee. Too much =
oxygen over time degrades flavors.
John
Joseph Robertson wrote:
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-- =
John A C Despres
Hug your kids
616.437.9182
Scene It All Productions 
JDs Coffee Provoked Ramblings =
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11) From: Brian Kamnetz
Les has experimented to find out how long after grinding his wife can
tell the difference, and if I recall correctly, if he grinds more than
1/2 hour before pulling a shot of espresso, his wife can discern a
degradation in flavor. Les may chime in here and correct any errors in
my recollection.
That being said, many people who are traveling and will be gone only
2-3 days grind before they leave home. There is some loss of flavor,
but the coffee is still way better than anything they can find at
their destination, and saves the hassle of transporting a grinder.
Brian
On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 1:31 AM, Bob Hazen  wrote:
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12) From: Sandy Andina
If I grind more than a minute before pulling a shot, I find that crema  
is lessened.
On Apr 4, 2008, at 3:29 PM, Brian Kamnetz wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
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13) From: Barry Luterman
Somebody once said that the coffee starts to degrade 18 seconds after
grinding. I don't know if that remark was tongue in cheek or not. But I
think for espresso anyway it is not far off the mark.
On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 11:11 AM, Sandy Andina  wrote:
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14) From: Eddie Dove
Jenni,
Welcome aboard!
Personal preference rules with respect to the amount of time one should wait
to grind and brew their fresh-roasted coffee; we refer to this as "rest."
There are some coffees that I absolutely enjoy right out of the roaster.
Last year's Timor FTO Maubesse is one such coffee because it tastes like
liquid butterscotch candy!  After that, it is a wonderful, mild Indonesian
coffee that continues to change over the next few days.
There are other coffees that I like to wait until the 3rd day after roasting
and others that I don't touch until 5 days after roasting, like the Konas.
When you roast a coffee, roast enough to try it on a daily basis for about a
week if at all possible.  This will help you develop a sense of how long you
prefer to wait before grinding and brewing.  Your palate will thank you!
Keep us informed ...
Eddie
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Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Referencehttp://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 6:43 PM, Jenni Spinner 
wrote:
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15) From: Joseph Robertson
John,
you make a very good point. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. I
forget what it was like with my first few posts here. I'm sure it's easy to
get lost in the archives. Not to mention it's like someone saying please
read the FAQ's when what they really want is to talk to or have an exchange
with a human.
Bring on the questions.
JoeR
On 4/4/08, John Despres  wrote:
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