HomeRoast Digest


Topic: tweaking roast for people and machine (11 msgs / 281 lines)
1) From: kevin creason
Question--
I have some potential 'customers'-- members of various European countries in
a little coffee club at work-- that have a little Saeco super-auto.
They've been doing Starbucks just because its the freshest around.
They were very excited to get a sampler bag of a blend for espresso which I
had roasted to FC. It is not any of the most excellent SM espresso blends,
it is from a huge lot from an establishment that was closing (a deal I
couldn't refuse that I could use for gifting, etc).
I was watching, the gal making the shots was over-extracting, but she did an
awesome job on the frothing.
Comments from her a cute Italian lady were that is wasn't 'bitter' enough,
not deep enough. Now I'm thinking sure, it's over-extracted, but if this is
the way they make it, maybe I need to try and change my roasting a little to
help them out. IIRC this roast (roasted on Sunday-- five days rest) went
just to second (just more than a few outliers) in my RK before being pulled
and cooled. Normally this makes a very even cup in the AP or FP at the
office. I don't use it in my espresso shots at home because I prefer my SM
beans.
So... should I go a bit longer in the RK for them? The beans look FC, not FC
plus.
They were excited that they were not black and oily so that is encouraging.
So it might just be these inferior beans, but ignore that element of the
equation for the time.
-- 
-Kevin
/* Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you
with experience. */
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2) From: miKe mcKoffee
Inferior greens will yield inferior cup no matter how you roast them, end of
story.
Yes you can roast inferior greens dark so the roast itself is predominant,
ala many mass producing drivel roasters out there using cheapest greens they
can. That is NOT what this List is about or anyone serious about coffee.
Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee
www.mcKonaKoffee.com
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first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
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3) From: Floyd Lozano
I can't speak to the quality of the greens you roasted, as some
reliable source like Tom hasn't cupped them.  That's just one of the
variables in this equation.  A super auto does one thing well -
automate coffee production. Everything else is a crapshoot!  You have
to tweak the grind, you have no control over the tamp, the temp, and
little control over extraction time.  Once you dial it in, as well as
you can with the settings available, then you can presumably repeat
this particular drink over and over.  Overextraction is likely not
cause by the level of roast, more likely the temperature of the water
and the grind (and the tamp, which again, you have no control over).
On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 11:23 PM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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4) From: Joseph Robertson
Mike,
Thank you for reinforcing the reason I got involved with this list in the
first place.
Speciality Coffee is all about working with the best possible product and
coming up with the best possible results. Very simple concept but very
challenging to create top shelf end result.
Ahh, and here lies the fun.
JoeR
On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 8:23 PM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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-- 
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and pallet reform.
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5) From: kevin creason
geez mike, you make it sound bad.
they may not be Tom's class, but they are better than average run of
some mill. they are great for practice and gifting and no point in
sending to the trash just yet.
so your advice is yes, go darker to capitize the roast?
i was thinking just another 30+ seconds into 2nd but not completely
through it. but in an Rk with my ineffecient cooling setup that would
really probably be a full 2nd.
i was hoping irrationally for some super wisdom to answer it all but
there just can't be a simple answer.
On 4/4/08, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
-Kevin
/* Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and
beat you with experience. */
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6) From: miKe mcKoffee
Good, bad, or shades of grey depends of point of view. Personally I choose
not to "gift" coffee I wouldn't proud of. And giving out samples to
"potential customers" of coffees that are of known lesser quality? Not my
modus operandi.
But on one thing we agree, with coffee there are no simple answers. Coffee
is complex.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
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7) From: Paul Helbert
I agree with MiKe 100%.
Short story to illustrate:
 I have consistently delivered the best and freshest chickens, lamb and eggs
to my customers. Eggs never older than two days and the store which handles
them sells out in a day or two. I'd rather have them be sold out than be a
week old. So, once a few years ago, in the spring when everything which has
feathers is laying heavily, I got into the situation of having several dozen
dozen eggs which were six or seven days old. Now this is still about a week
better than the commodity eggs available in stores, so I cut the cartons
into thirds and gave them away to prospective customers at the local
farmer's market with explanation about the age. Wouldn't you know, one
person figured that since it was free something was wrong, and complained.
Another story (drifting further away from topic):
A competitor who also has fresh eggs (just not as good as mine) sent some to
a market in Mogador (DC) with no explanation. No connection between himself
and his customer. He had a problem with returns because city folks thought
there was something wrong with the eggs. They had never seen eggs fresher
than several weeks and noticed the differences but did not recognize that it
was freshness.
Now, back on topic: Top quality. Nothing can beat it.
On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 1:10 PM, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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-- 
Paul Helbert
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8) From: John Brown
a question that is off topic but german to this post.
i remember the farm fresh eggs we would get from my Aunt.  i miss the 
really yellow yolk they were verging on red.  man were they good. so 
what do you feed them to get the deep yellow yolk ?
Paul Helbert wrote:
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9) From: Paul Helbert
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 12:17 AM, John Brown  wrote:
<Snip>
Yolk color, in free range hens, is seasonal. The deepest color occurs in the
spring and early summer when vegetation is making maximum growth. In winter
the color pales (except that some farmers feed alfalfa,  chrysanthemum
petals, or whatever to enhance color). This time of year the grass is
beginning to green up and the extra chlorophyll does the job naturally. Hens
are omnivores and so each season brings with it a different feast of bugs,
grubs and noseeums which also influence egg quality.
To get back on topic, I'll compare eggs with coffee beans which were taken
from Guatemala to Hawaii to be grown at different elevation, in different
(albeit similar) soils and in different climate. The genetics are the same
but the product differs due to the different growing conditions. A Plymouth
Rock which is free roaming in a chicken house is going to lay an egg which
differs from the same breed of bird living outside where it scratches in the
soil and runs around freely.
-- 
Paul Helbert
Prepackaged, roasted & ground coffee,,,
Maybe the worst idea since sliced bread?
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10) From: Jim Gundlach
let them out so they can eat some fresh green grass.
     pecan jim
On Apr 6, 2008, at 11:17 PM, John Brown wrote:
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11) From: Sandy Andina
Last year my band was performing at a barn concert in Independence, IA  
(as well as, later that weekend, a Unitarian service and live radio  
concert in Cedar Falls). We were graciously hosted by the owner of the  
barn, a schoolteacher who has a few free-range chickens and a cow or  
two.  Every morning for breakfast, he'd go out to the yard and gather  
eggs, and oh my were they WONDERFUL! Yolks deep golden-orange, with  
the fullest flavor I'd ever tasted since I was a little girl summering  
near Washingtonville, NY and we'd buy our eggs every couple of days  
from a retired doctor turned farmer.  There is almost nothing to  
compare with the taste of fresh eggs that have never seen the inside  
of a fridge (I said "fresh," not eggs that should have been chilled  
but weren't).   Broke my heart to have to scramble them for my  
bandmates who don't like to look at or taste separate whites and yolks  
(I soft-cooked, not boiled, mine--the taste of that fresh yolk just  
barely starting to gel is incomparable).   To bring this back on- 
topic, I'd been advised in advance that our host always drank whole- 
bean coffee and preferred (sigh) French roast. (There was no roastery  
or coffeehouse in Independence, at least not that we knew). So I  
roasted him a pound of Puro Scuro and sat back and watched his face as  
he drank it.  I suspect supermarket Millstone will never taste the  
same to him again.
On Apr 6, 2008, at 11:52 PM, Paul Helbert wrote:
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Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
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