HomeRoast Digest


Topic: vac or drip? (21 msgs / 501 lines)
1) From: Bob Glasscock
My wife and I are caffeholics. I've been roasting for about a year or so
with an IR2 with pretty fair results, but I believe it's time to take it to
the next level. 
We've been happy with the results we get with a pretty ordinary Cuisinart
drip coffeemaker, but would like a better cup.  Given basically the same
budget, which brewing method delivers the finer cup (American)? Yama or
Technivorm?
Bob and Ellen Glasscock
148 Woodland Court
Greenville, AL 36037
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2) From: Paul Helbert
Yama with a glass drainer. Fortunately, also much less spendy than the
Technivorm.
Now full disclosure: I have neither the Yama nor the Technivorm. My answer
is based on experience with other paper filter and other vacuum devices.
(both my own and those of others as reported).
Your mileage may vary. There is no accounting for taste. You may prefer to
have flavors removed that another person would want left in. Paper and cloth
filters always remove some flavors, oils, & body.
I am sitting here this morning enjoying a cup of SM's Antigua Yellow Bourbon
which was prepared by careful hand pouring through a paper filter. Grind,
dosage,cleanliness and temperature were all controlled to perfection; and It
is excellent. I cannot imagine it being any better, but I know that if I had
taken the time to set up a vacuum pot it could be better. But again, that's
me. Good luck figuring out your own coffee Nirvana.
On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 8:22 AM, Bob Glasscock 
wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Paul Helbert
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3) From: Vicki Smith
The one thing I would factor into the decision is that making coffee in 
the Yama (which I love) is not a set it and forget it kind of 
experience. It is not something I am up for doing in the rush-rush of 
workday mornings.
Vicki
Bob Glasscock wrote:
<Snip>
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4) From: Eddie Dove
Bob,
Vicki makes a very good point ...
In our brewing lineup, both the Technivorm Moccamaster CD and the Yama 8-cup
are present.  Both are excellent brewers and make distinctly different
coffee.  When I have the time, the Yama with a "Cory Glass Rod" Filter
(available on eBay) would be my preference for brewing because the cup of
coffee is just so nice.  However, at 4:00 AM, I opt for the Technivorm with
Swissgold Filter.
One possible pitfall to note with the Vacuum Brewers is that they can
generate a lot of frustration if you don't have a decent grinder; the
brewing will stall when it is time for the coffee to travel back to the
lower bowl.
Hope this helps ...
Eddie
-- 
Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Referencehttp://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 8:26 AM, Vicki Smith  wrote:
<Snip>
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5) From: Paul Helbert
Eddie's point is also a good one. There is a bit of a learning curve; but
once learned failures will be unusual (probably limited to when you are
showing off to company).
 I normally remember to set the grind correctly for the vac brewers. I did
go a for a week's car camping trip (in a campground with electricity) and
was able to get consistently perfect vac pot results with a Bodem blade
grinder. So, accept it as a challenge to learn new skills.
On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 10:09 AM, Eddie Dove <
southcoastcoffeeroaster> wrote:
<Snip>
--
Paul Helbert
A couple of my favorite daily emails come from:http://www.spanish-word-a-day.com/http://wordsmith.org/awad/index.html
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6) From: Brian Kamnetz
Bob,
You don't mention grinder -- what sort of grinder you are using?
Brian
On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 8:22 AM, Bob Glasscock  wrote:
<Snip>
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7) From: Sean Cary
Presspot...
On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 8:22 AM, Bob Glasscock 
wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Sean M. Cary
Major USMC
Tempus Fugit, Memento Mori
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8) From: Alex Fitch
I have been using my Yama for about 5 month and it is becoming my  
preferred maker, even at 05:00. But what I am unsure of is what is the  
purpose of the "Cory Glass Rod", does this replace the cloth filter?
As someone new to this world let me thank everyone for the wealth of  
information that I have taken in just reading other people posts.
Alex
----------------------------------
Alex Fitch
apf
On Apr 6, 2008, at 10:09 AM, Eddie Dove wrote:
<Snip>
----------------------------------
Alex Fitch
(703) 625-4352 (cell)
Alex
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9) From: Paul Helbert
On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Alex Fitch  wrote:
<Snip>
Yes.
-- 
Paul Helbert
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10) From: Bob Hazen
I use the Cory rod with my Yama.  I like it much better than the filter 
contraption that comes with the pot.  Much easier to keep clean.  The spring 
on my filter contraption broke shortly after I got it - I never looked back. 
It takes a bit to break a Cory rod, but gravity and a tile floor would 
probably do it.
Check here:http://www.sweetmarias.com/cona.drainer.jpghttp://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.brewers.vacuum.shtml
Bob

11) From: Barry Luterman
Yes it is used instead of the cloth filter. It is a heavy glass rod with a
bulge in the middle. It fits in the channel where the cloth filter is and
seals off the 2 compartments. As the water is sucked by the vacuum into the
lower compartment it prevents the grinds from entering the lower
compartment.
On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 8:47 AM, Alex Fitch  wrote:
<Snip>
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12) From: sci
Bob,
If you don't have a vacuum pot VP, they are one of the finest methods, very
interesting, and if you get one that can go to the table top with a burner,
they are impressive conversation pieces. But I don't think it creates the
"best" cup, just as I don't think there's any "best" origin for coffee. The
VP excels at making a clean crisp cup of coffee that IMHO underdevelops
body. They are perhaps the best way to make bright coffees. Of course, your
decision might be influenced by "how" you drink coffee. I, for example,
rarely make a pot of coffee. I'm a cup-at-a-time person, so I gravitate
toward the methods that do that well. Consider these: Aeropress
(superb--addicting), French Press (excellent), pour over (good), pour over
Swiss Gold (good), Vietnamese press (excellent, but odd). I don't have a
Technivorm so I can't weigh in, but I'd trust the excellent reviews from Tom
and others here. IOW, if you really like drip, then the TV sounds like the
ultimate device. Drip's advantage is that it makes lots of coffee, fast,
clean (with good filters), and not too sensitive to grind.
Bottom line: with either TV or VP, you can't go wrong.
Happy roasting, happy brewing,
Ivan
"Homeroasters of the world UNITE! You have nothing to lose but your
char'dbucks."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 07:22:09 -0500
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13) From: Bob Glasscock
I have an Aeropress and love it for that occasional cup. My wife's favorite
is the one-cup melita. As for bright vs. body, I go for body every time, so
am thinking the Yama with a Cory glass rod is a good "toe-in-the-water"
approach to VP brewing. Methinks the badly worn Capressa grinder may be the
weak link. In any event, it's an interesting adventure. -Bob G.

14) From: Rich
If you go with the glass rod be sure to sift the fines out of the coffee 
or you will have stalling.
Bob Glasscock wrote:
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15) From: Gary Taylor
"If you go with the glass rod be sure to sift the fines out of the coffee
or you will have stalling."Rich I'm always interested in sifting the fines 
out.  Can you say more about how you do it like:What kind of a sifter do you 
use?How much fines get removed?Thanks Gary
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16) From: raymanowen
For the proper grounds, you want:
a.) - an adequate "sifter," a strainer with screen mesh fine enough to hold
the grounds you want, so that the fines pass right on through to the sink or
File 13, or
b.) - a grinder or grinding process that doesn't produce any fines in the
first place...
It's like scraping burnt toast or toasting lighter in the first place so the
toast needs no further attention.
Choose b.), so you can just grind and brew. Avoid playing games and wasting
good coffee beans. A poor grinder or process tends to tear the beans to
pieces rather than chipping them.
Fines are produced when the torn edges are rubbed off, but the effect is the
same if they're left in situ on the grounds. Grim.
Got grinder? How much time and good coffee beans are you willing to waste
before you git you one?
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976
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17) From: Rich
Depends on the grind and the particle size you want to remove.  I have a 
collection of stainless steel mesh and just look at the grinder output. 
  A flower sifter is too course.  With the vac pot you are looking for a 
fairly coarse grind to start with and as you can let it soak for as long 
as the water in the bottom lasts you can find a screen that will 
separate out the fines.  plastic window cloth might work and is 
reasonably cheap.  If it is doubled up it will only pass real small 
particles.  Seems that each bean and roast level produces a different 
grind distribution at the same setting. Pretty much have to play with 
what you have and see what happens.  The fabric store has these 
embroidery hoops which can be used as screen cloth frames if you use the 
fiberglass screen.
Gary Taylor wrote:
<Snip>
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18) From: Paul Helbert
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 10:13 AM, Rich  wrote:
<Snip>
Rich's advice to sift out fines is good. It sure can do no harm. I'd agree
100% if he'd said,
<Snip>
Or use a good grinder,  or not. I have three vacuum pots and haven't had a
stalled brew in a very long time.I normally grind with a relatively new
Baratza Virtuoso set about the same as for drip. I also have had good luck
with the Bodum C-mill loaded heavily and pulsed to a med-coarse grind. It is
fun to watch a full load in the C-mill. Looks like a tornado or whirlpool.
Try and see what works best for you. There is a learning curve to anything,
but it's usually not too seep w/ vac pots.
YMMV & MMA,
Paul
-- 
Paul Helbert
Prepackaged, roasted & ground coffee,,,
One of the worst ideas since sliced bread.
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19) From: Bob Glasscock
It's a wrap. Received our new Yama 8-cup "Coffee Siphon" and Maestro Plus
Burr Mill. First pot brewed Guatemala Antiqua using the cloth filter. Grind
was a wee bit fine that resulted in a strong brew, but good - lots of body.
Also got my Cory glass rod and will try a pot with that this weekend. As a
footnote: The grinder made a tremendous difference in the quality of brew in
the Cuisinart (it has a timer-set it and sleep). Anyway, thanks again to
everyone who helped me with this decision.
Bob and Ellen G.
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20) From: Brian Kamnetz
On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 7:56 AM, Bob Glasscock  wrote:
<Snip>
Another convert to the "grinders are important" ranks....
Brian
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21) From: Henry C. Davis
now someone needs to talk to Alton Brown and then he can convert the rest of
the world - he actually recommended a whirly blade grinder on his coffee
episode of Good Eats. Aside from that, and his uninformed opinion about
freshness after the roast - in terms of length of time, though he was not as
far off as most people - it was actually a pretty good show on coffee.
Clearly no one has demonstrated the difference for him because he believes
in evidence even if it proves him wrong.
Even for drip brewed, the grinder makes a difference. A good one won't save
bad beans, but a bad one will ruin good ones.


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