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Topic: do differing varietals have different brewing times? (20 msgs / 484 lines)
1) From: Jarred Vallozzi
I roasted up Ocana for the first time and just french pressed some after 4
days of rest.  It was weak and thin.  Do different types of beans have
different brewing/extracting times, keeping all other factors constant?
- Jarred
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2) From: raymanowen
Did you measure everything for your brew? Should have hit a home run with
the press brew, especially if you maintained the right temperature. -ro
On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Jarred Vallozzi  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976
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3) From: Frank Parth
<Snip>
Hi Jarred,
This is where preparing coffee diverges from the science and becomes an art form. For each bean, take notes on exactly 
how long you roasted it for (times, temps, final degree of roasting), then take notes on how you prepared it, and 
foreach day of maturing note how it tastes. Once you've accumulated sufficient notes you'll get a sense of how 
different beans need different roasting, resting, and preparation to obtain their best flavors.
Is this anal-retentive? Well, yes. But it's how we learn best.
Feel free to share your thoughts on each bean and you'll find that other people will share their best preparation ideas.
Take care.
Frank Parth
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4) From: Brian Kamnetz
Weak and thin, if you used about the same ratio of coffee to water, I
would suspect under roasted... if it is VERY thin, nearly undrinkable.
It took me a long time to resist going clear to second crack, after
trying to force down several sips of coffee brewed from under-roasted
beans.
Brian
On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 6:22 PM, Frank Parth  wrote:
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5) From: Rick Copple
Brian Kamnetz wrote:
<Snip>
Some coffees can become too thin as well if you over roast them. Check 
Tom's notes, he'll usually mention if a particular bean loses too much 
body and flavor once you get too high. I do think the Mexican coffees 
are best around city to full city. Beyond that, you will probably end up 
losing a lot of body and flavor. But, check the notes.
-- 
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6) From: Eddie Dove
Jarred,
It would be interesting to get your impression of this coffee brewed
the same way on the 5th and 6th day.  There have been times when that
coffee was okay, but on the 5th day, really came into its own,
exploding with flavor and great body.
Please share how and to what degree it was roasted and do let us know
how it turns out over the next couple of days.
Eddie
-- 
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Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Referencehttp://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Jarred Vallozzi  wrote:
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7) From: Jarred Vallozzi
i measure everything.  I use a zass, so it is possible the grind was a
little different.  however, I have made another press pot since, with no
change.  I'll let the Ocana rest and try again in a day.
On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 5:16 PM,  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
-Jarred
"To engage in the creative process is to participate in a relation with the
Divine."
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8) From: Kris McN
Jared,
How did you roast it, and to what roast level?  This is a current favorite
in our house.  I'm enjoying a press pot cup right now.  I roasted it to C+
in the Behmor 8 days ago.  Nothing surprising.  Sweet, nutty, an all-around,
good-cup-of-coffee coffee.  This is a little lighter than I usually go with
it (LFC).  It does thin out days 3-5 post roast, but you should be getting a
good cup out of it by day 6.
Best,
Kris McN
On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 8:36 AM, Jarred Vallozzi  wrote:
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9) From: Jarred Vallozzi
Thanks for the feedback.  I roasted to FC with HG/BM, pulling the roast at
14 min.  I can't figure out what is wrong with this coffee.  I roasted a
second batch yesterday I'll taste in a couple more days.  I hope it is
better.  The first batch hasn't improved much since I started this thread.
weird.
On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 12:43 PM, Kris McN  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
-Jarred
"To engage in the creative process is to participate in a relation with the
Divine."
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10) From: Brian Kamnetz
Jarred,
How thin is the coffee? Does it have a definite coffee flavor, just
not a lot of it, or is it so thin as to have virtually no coffee
flavor?  (I'm still wondering if somehow you didn't get through first
crack.) Can you chew a bean and get a nice full coffee flavor?
Brian
On 4/9/08, Jarred Vallozzi  wrote:
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11) From: Jarred Vallozzi
The coffee was roasted to FC/FC+.  The flavor was thin with a pungent bitter
taste.  Not the bitter chocolate that accompanies a darker roast.
On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 2:51 PM, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
-Jarred
"To engage in the creative process is to participate in a relation with the
Divine."
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12) From: Brian Kamnetz
Hmmmm..... People have commented in various past threads about baking
a roast, or improperly cooling a roast, but I'm not sure if those
things produce the characteristics you describe. Maybe someone will
comment on these possibilities. Otherwise, I personally am stumped.
Just from the description it sounds like under-roasted, but you have
said that the roast was well beyond City, so that shouldn't be the
cause.
Brian
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Jarred Vallozzi  wrote:
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13) From: Bill
A stab in the dark:  I remember John and Eddie talking about the GC and
being careful of too-hot of initial heating.  I think one of them called it
"cauterizing" the bean.  That is, that you put a lot of heat into the beans
early, which does something to keep the heat from penetrating the depths of
the beans... as you can see, I'm not remembering really clearly.  But it
sounds from Jarred's comments that the beans are under-roasted inside.
 'thin' and 'pungent' would lean that way.  Any sourness?  any grassy-ness?
but I'm stumped, as well...
bill
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
<Snip>
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14) From: Brian Kamnetz
You may be on to something there, Bill. In addition, I burned the
batch I am currently brewing. I keep hoping that rest will solve the
harsh characters related to being burned, but while the harshness may
have diminished a bit, they are still there. Just as a hypothesis, the
cauterization could also have resulted in the outsides of the beans
being burned, while the insides are "green". I don't know how likely
this is as the answer to Jarred's problems, but I can see where, if
the condition did exist, it could create the flavors he is describing.
Brian
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Bill  wrote:
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15) From: John Despres
This may not provide the final answer, but, Jarred, break the bean =
open... Is the bit of chaff in the seam light or dark? Is the inside of =
the bean lighter than the outside of the bean? This might provide a clue.
If the chaff is dark and the inside of the bean is the same color as the =
outside, than I'm stumped as well.
John
Bill wrote:
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-- =
John A C Despres
Hug your kids
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Scene It All Productions 
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16) From: John Despres
Here's what Eddie sent me in an off list conversation. It may very well =
be posted elsewhere, but I can't find it at the moment.
John
"Some of the harder beans, like the Guatemalas, Ethiopias, Kenyas, etc., =
require a lot of heat and a steep ramp to develop the flavors. However, =
if you drop the beans into really hot environment and keep it there, =
then they won't turn out as good. The outside of the bean can roast very =
quickly, and essentially cauterize the bean, acting like an insulating =
shell. You will end up with a roasted outside while the inside of the =
bean is under roasted; like searing the outside of a steak and the =
center still rare. Given the dynamics of the Gene Cafe, I found that the =
5 minutes at 300F helped out a lot in reducing some of the moisture =
content of the beans, which condensed first crack, and getting the beans =
thoroughly warm and ready to receive the heat that was going to be =
applied. This temperature in the Gene Cafe is also low enough not to =
bake the beans. "
Bill wrote:
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-- =
John A C Despres
Hug your kids
616.437.9182
Scene It All Productions 
JDs Coffee Provoked Ramblings =
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17) From: Eddie Dove
Jarred,
Did the Guatemala - Finca San Jos Ocaa ever improve for you?
Since I had recently purchased 20 pounds of it, I was a bit concerned
so I roasted some of it last Sunday afternoon (Full City in the RK
Drum).  I usually don't bother drinking this coffee for at least three
days after roasting and I remember last year, it took a full five days
to really develop.  I had tried it off and on this whole week (drip in
the Technivorm) and it has been a bit, like you said, "thin" with
hints of red-grape skin, which I happen to like.  As the entire week
went by, it just wasn't improving much.  I saved enough for the
weekend, thinking I could brew it again in the Technivorm and if that
didn't work, try it in the KMB and see if that gets some flavor out of
it.
This morning, 6th day after roasting to Full City, it was brewed as
usual in the Technivorm.  This morning, it is an entirely different
coffee:  buttery body, Concorde grape, clove accent - a cornucopia of
flavors and aromatics that plays on just about every part of the
palate.  As the cup cools, it is even better and the body really pulls
the whole cup together.  I can almost detect the rose-like aromatics,
but my nose is a bit stuffy this morning; down here is the south we
are already firing up the furnaces for the summer and the pollen is
just plain thick!
As Tom qualifies the coffees, this one is labeled "Medium-to-bold
intensity."  When the cup is hot, it is medium, but when it cools, it
transitions to the bold.
I hope this is helpful.
Eddie
-- =
Docendo Discimus
Home Coffee Roasting Blog and Referencehttp://southcoastcoffeeroaster.blogspot.com/On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Jarred Vallozzi  wrote:
<Snip>
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18) From: John Despres
Eddie Dove wrote:
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Eddie, is increasing intensity something of a norm as the cup cools? I =
hadn't really noticed. Or is it something more specific to the Guatemala =
- Finca San Jos Ocaa?
I'll have to pay more attention to the intensity as the cup cools since =
I've always noted flavors but not so much the intensity.
Thanks!
John
-- =
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Hug your kids
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19) From: Brian Kamnetz
On 4/19/08, John Despres  wrote:
<Snip>
John,
In my experience it is the norm. I am not to the point that I often do
not take my first sip until 45 mins or more after brewing.
Brian
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20) From: Jarred Vallozzi
I started drinking my second batch of Ocana after day 4 and it was similar
to my previous experience.  But, like you, day 6 was much different.  I have
been away all weekend backpacking and just now got back.  I'll brew some up
tomorrow morning and let you know how it tastes.  Thanks for checking back
with me.
-Jarred
On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
-Jarred
"To engage in the creative process is to participate in a relation with the
Divine."
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