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Topic: More adventures in Behmor land, roast #5 and 5.5 (18 msgs / 476 lines)
1) From: Rick Copple
Well,
Can't say I'm having total success with this so far. I think having 
roasted with a wok for so long, being able to see the beans, clearly and 
in natural light, I just didn't realize how much I depended on that to 
guide me. I use first and second crack, but I could always tell by the 
color if first crack passed without a clue, or barely made a noise and 
so second crack didn't surprise me.
Well, I decided to roast some of the Columbian that came with the sample 
pack. I've not cared for them too much in the past, something about the 
raisin flavor that doesn't appeal to me a lot, so Columbians and 
Peruvian coffees rarely find their way into my checkout basket. But, 
this was a good chance to give one another try.
Notes said city to full city was best. Figured I would go for a city +, 
that way if I overshot a little, it would still be in the range. Set it 
for 1# (was a full pound of coffee), tried P2 again, and upped the time 
to 21 minutes. Then hit start.
Everything rolled along fine, until I got to around 7 minutes left on 
the roast. I felt like first crack should have started a long time ago. 
I remembered my last attempt with this setting resulted in no first 
crack. Some pops started, and I panicked, thinking it was probably 
second crack and if I don't stop it now, I'll have something beyond full 
city. I kept looking in, but with the red glow and the grate, I couldn't 
get a clear reading on how dark the beans had become. So I hit the cool 
button.
After pulling it out, it was obvious it was first crack, I had a 
cinnamon roast. Well, figured I would give it a shot and see what it 
tasted like. Who knows, maybe it would be good.
It wasn't. Wasn't horrible. I could taste the caramel/raisin flavors in 
the background, but the sourness of the light roast was too great and 
made it taste (when hot) more like baked bread, rye that had sat out a 
bit too long.
So, decided tonight I would toss it back in and roast it some more. Just 
finished doing that. I decided I would wait and make sure I had first 
crack. Went with P1 to keep heat to it constantly, moved enough time on 
it to ensure I would get there and kept my finger on the cool button.
It started popping. Was this first or second? The popping picked up and 
started really crackling. Smoke began seeping out the door. This is 
second! Hit the cool button. After all is said and done, I have a 
solidly good Vienna roast of this Columbian coffee.
I sort of feel like I'm flying blind to a certain extent. All I have to 
go on are the cracks, and I can't totally depend on that all the time. 
So I feel like I'm guessing and coming up with all sorts of wild 
results. It's like flying blind, going on instruments only...but not 
feeling certain you know how to read the instruments yet.
Eventually I'll get it figured out, but for this roaster who's used to 
seeing the color gradually change, this is taking a bit of getting used to.
And no, I'm not inclined to cut holes in it, or go without it. I feel a 
machine should be used as its designed to be used and I don't want to go 
messing with it. Shouldn't have to. Don't want chaff flying out the 
door. I'll just have to get used to what the various stages look like 
under a glowing red light and through the chaff screen.
Tomorrow I'll see what this *$ style coffee tastes like. If good, I'll 
probably grind it and give them some more coffee at work. They liked my 
last batch of over roasted coffee. ;)
The adventure continues!
-- 
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2) From: Rich
P-2 is not your friend.  You will have better luck and control with P-3.
Rick Copple wrote:
<Snip>
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3) From: Dave
I know what you mean about not being able to see the color well. I
went from air popper to the Behmor in December, and I still can't tell
what color the beans are while they're in there. I'm finding sound and
especially smell to be my best indicators. I roast almost exclusively
with P2. I roast 1/2 lb with the Behmor set at 1lb, P2. As it gets to
the end I keep my finger near the cool button. Works good for me.
-- 
Dave
Some days...
It's just not worth chewing through the leather straps
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4) From: Barry Luterman
You are right. The variable is the method you broke in with. Using the heat
gun you are used to monitoring the roast by visual clues. For me coming from
a Hot Top I use smell and sound almost exclusively. I virtually never peer
around the corner through the glass viewing port on the Hot Top. I had no
trouble at all moving to the Behmor. You are also right. Just keep with it
and you will develop the new skills you need. Aren't you glad it came with a
free 8 pounds of coffee. Try smaller batches. Try not to look at the beans.
Listen and smell.
On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Rick Copple  wrote:
<Snip>
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5) From: Sandy Andina
Did a pound of Monkey Blend on P-1, adding time to the max of 20:30.  
Only got it to City+ (no second crack), when the recommended level is  
Vienna.  Had to run it through again to get second crack--happened at  
9-1/2 minutes in. Still closer to FC+ than Vienna, but the bean munch  
is satisfactory.  (Should have done two 1/2 lb. batches on the same  
settings).  About to do 12 oz. of Harar Horse at 1 lb./P3, time added  
to the max--needs a bit lighter roast, but that should give me enough  
leeway.
On Apr 9, 2008, at 11:23 PM, Dave wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
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6) From: Rick Copple
Rich wrote:
<Snip>
Well, I like the profile idea of P2, if you get it timed right, it 
should mimic what I did on the wok, which was turn down the heat right 
after first crack to stretch out the roast until you reached second 
crack. For roast from city to full city, that would seem ideal. But 
getting it so the bean will get solidly into first crack before the 
temp. drop seems to be the issue. Timing, which I'll get down eventually.
But, it is true, the two roast I've messed up on so far were on P2. The 
ironic thing is, I probably would have had a perfect roast if I had let 
it continue and didn't shut it down too early the first time through. It 
was headed into first crack, which I suspected was second, but it 
wasn't. If I had let it get through that and then shut it down, I would 
have had a good city or city+ roast as planned. Live and learn. We'll 
see how it tastes tomorrow.
Shutting down, as we have a big storm about to blow through, and would 
rather not have my laptop plugged in and on. :)
-- 
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7) From: Dave Ehrenkranz
Maybe one should first roast a particular bean on P1 to see where  
first crack comes for a particular bean and then roast on P2 setting  
the time so that the decrease in power will match what one previously  
found for the timing of 1st crack.
dave
On Apr 10, 2008, at 12:16 AM, Rick Copple wrote:
<Snip>
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8) From: David Rossell
I started out roasting with P1 and would reduce temperature by opening the
door to slow the first crack.  It keeps  the variables down.
David
David Rossell
Administrator of Network Services and Planning
Norwood School
8821 River Rd.
Bethesda, MD 20817
(301) 841-2178
drossell

9) From: Rich
That is what you have to do.  You will trash some coffee doing this 
though for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post.  I am yet not 
convinced that P-2 provides any benefits that justify the exercise of 
getting it to function as designed.  P-2 would be fine if you could 
extend the time to greater intervals.  Similar to the problems with P-1, 
not enough total time.
Dave Ehrenkranz wrote:
<Snip>
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10) From: Floyd Lozano
It works well when using 1lb roast settings on 1/2# of coffee.  I find
that around 12ish elapsed, I'm hitting 1st, so I adjust the time of
the roast to ~18 minutes to start.  This puts the drop right around
the time of 1st crack, which is when I want the drop to occur, and
yes, it takes practice to find this with any given coffee.  I had to
start writing stuff down again!  I find that if I don't try to do some
sort of temp management (open door, drop temp in the stage) I go
almost straight from the end of 1st into 2nd too often (30sec to 1 min
between, and I'd prefer to double that at the least!).  It's a good
excuse to burn through some of my stash to experiment!
-F
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 8:50 AM, Rich  wrote:
<Snip>
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11) From: Bill Allison
Can you do that? I have scoured the instructions looking for a way to alter
the time of the first leg, but can only find references to increasing or
decreasing the second and third legs.
Bill Allison

12) From: Rich
P-2 only has a chance of being effective if you roast 1/2LB on the 1LB 
setting.  This defeats the benefit of having a 1LB capacity roaster.
The way I read the manual, any time change (+/-) made BEFORE start 
impacts all segments and any time change (+/-) made AFTER start effects 
the last segment only.
Bill Allison wrote:
<Snip>
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13) From: Gary Foster
If you want to alter just the first leg time you do it like this:
* Add time before you push start (that stretches out all the legs)
* Push start
* subtract time now (that compresses the last legs, leaving only the
1st leg longer).
That's the way I understand it from the (slightly cryptic) manual.
The only real beef I have with the behmor is the way that particular
section of the manual is written...
-- Gary F.
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 7:20 AM, Bill Allison  wrote:
<Snip>
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14) From: Floyd Lozano
It may defeat the benefit of having a 1lb roaster, but it doesn't
defeat the benefit of me having a roaster that can product 1/2 of
coffee with little to no smoke, indoors!   I have also tried this with
12oz or 14oz of coffee to start to adjust the profile.  I don't care
much if i get less than a lb out of the batch - I prefer to have 3 or
4 coffees in rotation through the week as I prefer variety.
That's the way I read the manual too, and 'eyeball verified' by
looking at how the elements cycle on and off during the roast.  at 60%
time (as the manual curve indicates) they behaved as I would have
expected.  i did not verify with thermocouple!  So, using this method,
you can squash down or increase the ramp up times on the profiles,
later adjusting the heat (albeit not scientifically) by opening the
door, or as some do, leave out the giant heat sink (chaff collector)
to allow for quicker (albeit not scientific measurement) temperature
changes.
-F
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Rich  wrote:
<Snip>
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15) From: Jeff
At Les's suggestion I used P1 exclusively until I got familiar with the 
Behmor. It reduced variables to a minimum, so all I had to be concerned 
about was color, smell, and timing of the cracks. At Joe's suggestion, I 
used part 5, number 3 in the manual at first. It gave me a good starting 
point.
With practice you can learn how the beans look at various degrees of 
roast in the Behmor.
Jeff
Rick Copple wrote:
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16) From: Rick Copple
Rich wrote:
<Snip>
Well, as I said, if I hadn't got so panicky that I was headed into 
second crack instead of first, and let it go, it would have turned out 
perfect. I would have let first crack wind down then killed it and would 
have had a city to city+ roast, as planned. I just jumped the gun.
The benefit to the P2 setting is to stretch out the time between first 
and second more. It just takes some getting used to the roaster to find 
that, and I pretty much had it if I had let it keep going.
I'm not to partial to opening the door either. Don't know, I just want a 
machine to work as designed, I don't want to have to do odd things with 
it to get it to work, and I don't think I have to. It was working fine 
if the operator hadn't intervened too early! ;)
-- 
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17) From: Rick Copple
Rick Copple wrote:
<Snip>
I should add, the bean had a very spicy flavor, with some dark caramel 
in the background. The raisin flavor was there, but very subdued, I 
think much of it had turned into a more pugnant spice, like nutmeg mixed 
with something else...I don't know spices that well. Actually, it is the 
closest thing to a Starbucks coffee I've roasted, except still I think 
this has more flavor.
Had a co-worker taste it, and he absolutely loved it. So on my lunch 
break, I ground the rest for them into a zip-lock bag and they have it 
for work in the mornings.
Now I've got to roast more! :snaps fingers: Darn!
:D
Oh, yemens and yemen coffee-tea came in today. Need to go make some tea!
-- 
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18) From: raymanowen
I'm just guessing, as I did when I first roasted 32 years ago and knew
nothing.
A.) - First turn them brown so they look like coffee beans.
      1) - cool them somehow
      2) - grind and brew
B.) - 28 years after forgetting everything I knew - nothing - dig out
poppers and try it again.
      1) - Turn on computer, look for green coffee - find SM, learn.
      2) - Make small changes, improve. Stop hating espresso.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
That's all, folks!
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