HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Inlet vs bean mass monitoring > controlling a 240v (11 msgs / 287 lines)
1) From: miKe mcKoffee
IIRC Jim Schulman was intrumental in that discussion. Might PM him on H-B or
other forum he's active on.
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first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
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2) From: Michael Dhabolt
Mr. Memory,
Think you're right.  If this Dave guy picks back up on the thread,
I'll pursue it.
I've still got a roast chamber that I instrumented to allow monitoring
both bean and roast chamber inlet air temperature.  The results I got
led me to believe that bean temp was the controlling criteria that I
preferred.  I remember that there were certainly some different
attitudes from some competent folks.
Thanks a bunch miKe.
Mike (just plain)
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3) From: miKe mcKoffee
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4) From: Edward Bourgeois
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5) From: Dave Bush
Thanks for the responses, guys. I now realize my questions weren't completely clear. I do intend to use the bean mass temp as the PID feedback source since ultimately that's what you're trying to control. Granted you could monitor inlet and outlet temps, etc, but that's just overly complicated and outside the scope of using an off the shelf PID. 
Limiting the peak inlet temperature, however, does seem to have some value since you don't want to scorch the beans when you're trying to achieve a steep ramp. On the other hand, you want it hot enough to be able to achieve an overall optimum roast time and, perhaps, some steeper ramps along the way. For example, I've read recommendations to force a steeper ramp through first crack. For now I'm planning to shoot for a peak inlet temp of 500-550F and see how it goes.
So, assuming I'm monitoring the bean mass, does anyone have profile recommendations? It doesn't need to be an actual PID program, but a description of the profile would do.
BTW, does anyone have suggestions on the best way to monitor this list? Digest form avoids getting swamped with emails, but doesn't lend itself to easy replies. While I would like to avoid getting a lot of separate emails I guess I could filter them into a separate folder. What's your approach?
Thanks!
Dave
<Snip>
<Snip>
Exactly. Initially very high and eventually between 1st and end of roast
going negative, but not too negative. -20f seems to usually be the stall
point during the stretch on the USRC 3k
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

6) From: Dave Bush
Thanks for the responses, guys. I now realize my questions weren't completely clear. I do intend to use the bean mass temp as the PID feedback source since ultimately that's what you're trying to control. Granted you could monitor inlet and outlet temps, etc, but that's just overly complicated and outside the scope of using an off the shelf PID. 
Limiting the peak inlet temperature, however, does seem to have some value since you don't want to scorch the beans when you're trying to achieve a steep ramp. On the other hand, you want it hot enough to be able to achieve an overall optimum roast time and, perhaps, some steeper ramps along the way. For example, I've read recommendations to force a steeper ramp through first crack. For now I'm planning to shoot for a peak inlet temp of 500-550F and see how it goes.
So, assuming I'm monitoring the bean mass, does anyone have profile recommendations? It doesn't need to be an actual PID program, but a description of the profile would do.
BTW, does anyone have suggestions on the best way to monitor this list? Digest form avoids getting swamped with emails, but doesn't lend itself to easy replies. While I would like to avoid getting a lot of separate emails I guess I could filter them into a separate folder. What's your approach?
Thanks!
Dave
<Snip>
<Snip>
Exactly. Initially very high and eventually between 1st and end of roast
going negative, but not too negative. -20f seems to usually be the stall
point during the stretch on the USRC 3k
Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/Homeroast mailing list
Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20

7) From: peterz
Mike,
Earlier experiments that I have done with a PI showed me that often 
inlet temp can be as high as 1200F in some areas of the bean mass.
How do you regulate this with the roasters you build?
PeterZ
Michael Dhabolt wrote:
<Snip>
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8) From: Michael Dhabolt
Peterz,
I never saw temps that high, but considerably above what I had
expected.  I set the PID to operate with a relatively short period,
the SSR cycles the heaters at a rate of 1/4 second or so.  The TC
placement of centered in the chamber barrel and 1.5 inches from the
floor seems to give the most representative bean temp.  And keeping
enough bean circulation to not allow beans to spend any substantial
time in extra hot areas of the chamber and homogenize the temp thru
the chamber.  I think that bean circulation is the key, not
necessarily 'lofting' a substantial percentage of the beans but a
steady circulation (a 20 degree tilt on the roaster seems to set up a
good circulation pattern).  Inadequate circulation will immediately
inform you by presenting an uneven roast with overcooked beans.
Mike (just plain)
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9) From: Michael I
"BTW, does anyone have suggestions on the best way to monitor this list?
Digest form avoids getting swamped with emails, but doesn't lend itself to
easy replies. While I would like to avoid getting a lot of separate emails I
guess I could filter them into a separate folder. What's your approach?"
Dave, you have no idea what you've done...
-AdkMike
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10) From: Rich
Filter to separate folder...no problem
Michael I wrote:
<Snip>
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11) From: Brian Kamnetz
Dave, as AdkMike suggests, many people, myself included, opened gmail
accounts specifically for this list. It's all I use my gmail account
for. Does a nice job of sorting by thread, etc.
Brian
On 4/15/08, Michael I  wrote:
<Snip>
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