HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Cooling.. (10 msgs / 241 lines)
1) From: Bob Holland
<Snip>
fast as possible. I bring 25lbs to room temp in less than 3 minutes in a
commercial roaster. At home with my Poppery, I bring that 1/4lb to room temp
in 30 seconds with my ABS/FlourSifter/Shopvac cooler.
Build your complexity in the roast, not in the cooling.
Bob
Dexter, Oregon
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2) From: Ken Mary
From: "Bob Holland"
"From my experience both Home Roasting and Commercial, is you want to cool
as
fast as possible. I bring 25lbs to room temp in less than 3 minutes in a
commercial roaster. At home with my Poppery, I bring that 1/4lb to room temp
in 30 seconds with my ABS/FlourSifter/Shopvac cooler.
Build your complexity in the roast, not in the cooling."
Yours is the universal response to my previous controlled cooling posts over
the years.
My story begins many years ago trying to explain complexity differences
between roasters, specifically between a Poppery I and various Poppery II
clones. After matching the roast profiles, the Poppery I results always far
exceeded that from the II clones. All roasts were cooled in the roasters by
shutting off the heat. The clones cooled much faster due to the lightweight
construction. What? This is ridiculous, I said to myself, cooling must be
done as fast as possible, why is the slower cooling Poppery I better? At
about this same time, there was a post in alt.coffee in reply to a cooling
question that stated in no uncertain terms that cooling must be done as fast
as possible. All further replies agreed. I took this as a challenge and
began a six month project.
The first success was matching the clones' cooling rates to the Poppery I
and found that the taste results matched perfectly. The second success was
developing an optimum cooling profile by tailoring the cooling rate. The
third success came when the controlled cooling was tried on my small drum
roaster with the same enhancement of flavors.
Over the past year, I have been optimizing drum roast profiles with
conventional quick cooling. My fourth success came a few days ago when
controlled cooling resulted in enhanced flavors and complexity (and now
enhanced body) on profiles optimized for quick cooling.
It does not matter to me how others roast (and cool) their coffee. But what
does matter is the statement of universals, that there is only one way to do
something, and that is wrong.
--
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3) From: Bill
So Ken, would you care to share your experiences of cooling profiles for us?
 what works, what do you find best that you enjoy most?  What cooling
hardware do you have to make it happen???thanks
bill
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 7:23 AM, Ken Mary  wrote:
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4) From: raymanowen
Try to do all of the roasting while you are controlling the application of
heat- You can get any roast you want that way.
When the roast is at your desired level, STAND ON THE BRAKES- youre done.
You sure won't benefit a good roast by letting it drift. If it does when you
do, you weren't done when you thought to cut it loose.
If you're traveling by ship, you wouldn't want the Captain to gather the
crew for a beer bust in the galley for the last 20 miles of the trip. That's
what you're doing when you cut the power and let it drift.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 4:52 PM, Bill  wrote:
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5) From: Ed Needham
In my 5 pound perfed drum roaster, I do cut the propane for the last 15 
seconds of the roast so I can hit second crack, allow it to develop a bit 
without burning the beans, and then dump, cool quickly.  The momentum of the 
beans, and the stored heat of the roaster allow the cracking to continue 
intensifying until I dump and cool.   I don't count seconds, but rather when 
I am sure second is starting, I cut the heat, and bend down to turn off the 
propane tank, I then open the roaster, grab the drum and dump.  All in all, 
about 15 seconds.  The beans do not develop oil at all this way, and I think 
the flavor development is greater than not hitting second at all.
A small batch air roaster is another bird altogether.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com*********************

6) From: Bill
Ray,
I just don't know.  I think Ken at least speaks from experience, that he
prefers the complexity imparted in certain (or all?) beans by ramping
cooling.  I think he referred to people who treated cooling almost as an
article of faith.
So to ask, how do you know that your coffee tastes better with immediate
cooling?  Your point is about drift.  Point taken.  But what about Ken's
claims of better coffee?  I think we should see what his exact experience
is, and experiment some ourselves.
I've gotten hammered by this list saying, "don't take what I say as the
best, find out for yourself!"  But it's been good advice.
Why not experiment with cooling?  After all, that's the spirit of this list!
bill
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:08 PM,  wrote:
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7) From: Ken Mary
From: raymanowen
"Try to do all of the roasting while you are controlling the application of
heat- You can get any roast you want that way.
When the roast is at your desired level, STAND ON THE BRAKES- youre done.
You sure won't benefit a good roast by letting it drift. If it does when you
do, you weren't done when you thought to cut it loose."
Been there, done that many times over the past 5 or 6 years, the taste
enhancement comes only during the controlled cooling.
--
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8) From: Ken Mary
From: Bill
"So Ken, would you care to share your experiences of cooling profiles for
us?
what works, what do you find best that you enjoy most?  What cooling
hardware do you have to make it happen???thanks"
"Why not experiment with cooling?  After all, that's the spirit of this
list!"
Sorry I did not make it clear enough in my previous messages. Cool in the
roaster, reduce heat or turn it off, aim for 300F BEAN temperature 2 to 3
minutes after the start of cooling. It may not be necessary, but I have
added a second one minute ramp to 160F in many roasts. Then dump on a tray
or other finish cooler. This will get you in the ball park and you can
adjust to suit your taste. I have not sampled all the world's coffees, but
have found controlled cooling works with all that I have roasted.
I am amazed at those with computer controlled roasters who do not try this
controlled cooling, or at least have not responded to the list after they
have. I believe they are afraid to discover something new or to admit that a
cherished lifelong belief now lies shattered at their feet.
There is always the chance that I am wrong, and so I often rethink the
entire process. But after so much data that reinforces my original
conclusion, slow or controlled cooling is now a rule in my books.
--
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9) From: Bill
Ken,
I appreciate that you've shared that with the list.  Like you've said, it's
definitely unorthodox to talk about controlled cooling or slower cooling...
 I'll have to give it a try in my own roasting.  My cooling apparatus is
very low tech, a box fan and colanders.  But I just blast cold air at the
beans, I'll give it a try to cool a lot slower now, and I'll see what I
find.
Question for you (i know, these are getting annoying!): have other people
tried your slower-cooled roasts and concurred that the flavors were better,
or have these just been done by you?  Again, thanks for sharing your
experience.  I can't wait to see what I see...
bill
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 5:47 AM, Ken Mary  wrote:
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10) From: Rich
Interesting, verrry interesting.  Sounds allot like what happens inside 
a Behmor.  As long as you do not pop the door open.
Ken Mary wrote:
  > Sorry I did not make it clear enough in my previous messages. Cool 
in the
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