Paul,
Re: Chocolate. If you have a Yemeni, especially SM's new Ismaili, try it at
FC, rest it for 3 days: Chocolate H-Bomb. I gave this to a friend of mine
and he tasted the chocolate. This is why Mohka has come to mean "chocolate"
in most people's vocabulary even though there's no relation other than
similar flavor. Toward the bottom of the cup, I can barely tell that I'm
drinking coffee. In fact, hot chocolate puts me to sleep, and so does this
stuff. I have drank a big mug and had to put it down because I was dozing
off to sleep.
miKe,
Like you I love roasting coffee from anywhere it is grown. I grew up in
Mexico and was around coffee at every stage of production. I remember
smelling coffee roasting on homemade clay griddles over an open fire. This
was coffee raised on the mountain behind the house; all of it DP. Within one
month of roasting dozens of origins, I was inexorably and irresistibly drawn
to Yirgs/Sidamos, especially the DPs. Sure, I love a balanced Central or
anything really. But I always keep a batch of Yirg C to C+ around for at
least one cup a day. The world looks rosier from behind a mug of Yirga
Cheffe!
Vicki,
If you have chance to pick up some Vacu Seal bags for $5 they get nearly all
air away from the bean. The bag collapses and conforms to the beans, thus
eliminating all the space that air can occupy. I have vacuum jars, but even
when you pull a hard vacuum on the jar, there's lots of empty space in
there, hence more oxygen atoms to react and oxidize your precious beans.
Ivan
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 18:29:58 -0400
From: "Paul Helbert"
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Good beans, bad coffee, and the elusive (to
me) blueberry
To: homeroast
Message-ID:
<6e31221f0804271529g4a389bd2le185d991a482841e>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset F-8
All these differences in tasters! I smell rather than taste the
blueberries, enjoy the centrals and have yet to taste anything I'd
call "chocolate" in my coffee. I have thirty varieties in my stash.
Which ones do folks find to be "chocolate bombs" and at what roast
levels?
--
Paul Helbert
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"I have vacuum jars, but even when you pull a hard vacuum on the jar, there's lots of empty space in there, hence more oxygen atoms to react and oxidize your precious beans." I have jars too, and the CO2 evolved by the fresh roasted coffee beans displaces the less-dense O2 molecules. Regardless of the pressure, even in interstellar space no volume exists in which there is no matter. The famous Hard Vacuum is only a relative term here on the planet. CO2 is always more dense than O2 molecules. As the CO2 evolves, it fills the jar to overflowing, pushing out the O2 molecules. Treat the coffee beans like Gherkins in a pickle jar. Don't pour the beans [and the CO2] out, but dip the beans out and take advantage of Physics. Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa! Got Grinder? Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 1:05 AM, wrote: <Snip> hmmm, ray as usual you spark some interesting thoughts. Most get discarded as this one most assuredly will also, but I have to throw it out there: There's a couple of huge vacuum chambers at the Johnson Space Center, just a couple of buildings away from me. Now I'm not saying store roasted coffee in the chambers-- it'd be hard to roast that much!-- but I'm thinking some people interested in some real figures could write up a request for a study-- how much gas is emitted by roasted coffee? Roast it, lock it up under vacuum, and measure what comes out. How about another study? Design a solar roaster for use outside the Station, see how coffee roasts IN a vacuum. The only problem then would be the astronauts on board for six months with the worst coffee you can imagine. You know there would be some grinding going on in weightlessness and that dust would probably ruin some equipment. Oh, and talk about a profile-- have to look at their very rapid orbit and see how long they are facing sol and design roaster and capacity to roast in that timespan. -- -Kevin /* Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. */ Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
Kevin, I've thought about roasting submerged in a fluid other than air. The traditional process has always involved Oxygen-infested atmosphere, maybe with CO2-enhanced combustion products. Maybe the green coffee beans could be held for a period of time in a bell jar at reduced pressure, with CO2 introduced to achieve atmospheric pressure equilibrium. The roasting could take place at 1atm pressure in a CO2-rich closed loop, with CO2 as the fluid. Normal roasting takes place with the beans tumbling in a hot fluid within some kind of container: Heated air in a drum, popper, bread maker's pan, deep bowl or whatever. At the elevated temperature of roasting, the oxygen present reacts more rapidly with the coffee bean's hydrocarbons. As things stand now, staling gets a running start. Drum roasting could be attempted in a bell jar or chamber. Then you have two minor problems: 1.) - No transmission medium for sound in a vacuum, couldn't hear the cracks; 2.) - IR radiation could be directed at the drum/ beans, but how to measure the bean temperature... Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa! "Space junk" takes on new meaning when beans spill out... Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
I need a lab. Maybe a Golden Retriever or two will do. |
you can have mine, wife got him while I was in Iraq...drives me nuts. The lab that is...well the wife does also. Sean On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 8:22 PM, Ed Needham wrote: <Snip> -- Sean M. Cary Major USMC Tempus Fugit, Memento Mori Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
I'm a computer guy, not a chemist, but from my layman's perspective, I would think that roasting is just controlled burning which, one would think, requires oxygen... Of course, I wouldn't mind being corrected -- that's how you learn stuff ;-) -Peter On Apr 29, 2008, at 5:09 PM, raymanowen wrote: <Snip> Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
One must assume neither your lab or wife read the List or you'd be torn to shreds! :-) Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before. Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/ <Snip> Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
I was under the impression that CO2 and O2 would mingle and not layer. I know from beer fermentation (I have 5 gallons happily bubbling away on my island in the kitchen as we type) that profuse CO2 generation displaces the O2 in a fairly short time, but I also know that if I leave the air lock off, that O2 will infiltrate and spoil the beer. OK, chemists, does CO2 and O2 stratify, or do they combine? ********************* Ed Needham "to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com********************* |
The reactions that take place during roasting only involve the
compounds within the bean. And since there is water in the beans even
after drying, some reactions involving oxygen probably do take place
but they are very different from combustion. Also, there may be some
limited surface reactions but I doubt that are significant. Oxygen
from the air would be required for combustion once the temperature got
high enough. Absent oxygen at the higher temperatures my guess is
that you would be making little charcoal beanetts.
pecan jim
On Apr 29, 2008, at 8:13 PM, Coffee wrote:
<Snip>
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I would think roasting coffee requires oxygen...at least for the person running the roaster! ;-) Hmmm, Debi's best friend works for NASA. Maybe I should submit coffee roasting as a future experiment... Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before. Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/ <Snip> Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
Ed Needham wrote: <Snip> CO2 & O2 do stratify in brewing - Otherwise how could open fermenting (i.e. No top cover on the fermenter at all) be so popular in the UK and other places. The Co2 is heavier than the O2 (and also air) so it displaces the air / O2 and provides a protective blanket for the brew. John Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
OK, a little research on the subject shows a CO2 molecule has an atomic weight of 44 (carbon, Oxygenx2). So O2 would have an atomic weight of 32. That means that 'thank goodness there is wind!', otherwise we would all suffocate from CO2 while the O2 stratifies into the upper layers of the atmosphere. So if the CO2 is outgassing, and is not disturbed, it would form a protective layer in a slightly sealed jar, or bag and not allow O2 to invade unless disturbed. Brilliant! Seal the jar and you trap in the oxygen. Crack it a little and it protects the beans. Disturb it and you start all over, with less CO2. ********************* Ed "this ain't rocket surgery" Needham "to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com********************* |
It seems that scooping beans out of a container would provide enough agitation to move CO2 and displace with O2... while RayO's pickle analogy makes sense, it seems like atoms would be a bit more sensitive than cucumbers... comments?bill Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
Just saw a new item on the SM website. Any comments on the location of the degassing valve? It's on the bottom. Whaddya think, would that be as effective? Hmmmmm...http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.cupping-brewing.shtml#coffee_tinbill Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
OK,
Another list induced tipping point. I just put in a order for 4
of the new tins and while I was at it I ordered two pounds of each of
the Yemen coffees and half a pound of the Qishr Tea. It will come
slowly by UPS since the tins won't fit the flat rate boxes. I hope
they survive the UPS game of playing football with packages. Now, to
go roast something.
pecan jim
On Apr 30, 2008, at 12:45 PM, Bill wrote:
<Snip>
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The 12 oz. *Coffee Tin with De-Gas Valve* on the bottom is not a good plan, IMO. The first thing to depart the canister will be the evolved CO2. That's just what you don't want. Several illustrations should make the phenomenon clear- Lead-acid storage batteries generate hydrogen gas and heat as they are charged and discharged. They are vented, but not on the bottom. In the laboratory, sodium metal is stored submerged in kerosene or light mineral oil to exclude O2 from it. The metal chunks are carefully removed from the top of the storage container to avoid POL spills. The container doesn't have to be hermetically sealed, the sodium metal just has to stay submerged. Power distribution transformers get hot and are usually oil cooled. To relieve the thermal expansion, the case is usually vented. Curiously, the vents are never on the bottom. Vented coffee bags should always be vented at or near the top so the O2 is pushed overboard and the beans stay submerged in CO2. For those that consider transferring coffee beans akin to shoveling coal, I suggest relieving the drama and cupping 7-11 or Starbucks coffee. Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa! How not to do it- Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
On Apr 30, 2008, at 3:36 PM, raymanowen wrote: <Snip> ... <Snip> May I suggest a simple solution - invert the can. Hmm, but then when you open the lid, all the coffee beans will spill out. I guess that won't work. - allon Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
It would work! Some graphics might be required- like a pictorial of several of the canisters stored upside down in a kitty litter pan. The hand comes down and retrieves the desired can- Arrows show the righting of the can, removal of the lid, 1/8cup/ 1oz/ ~10g measure carefully dipping out the desired coffee to the grinder... Voila! Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa! -- "When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976 Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |