HI All, I have been bitten by the espresso bug. I have been considering an espresso machine and thought about a Silvia PID but pretty much settled in on an HX machine and have been focused on an Expobar Office Pulsar, they are about the same price. There have been some pretty positive suggestions and for about $800, most seem to think it is a good machine. Yesterday I ran across a used Pasquini Livia 90. They are asking $400. I do not know much about this unit and would like some feed back from the group. I am really a newbie at this and would like to compare it to the Expobar. I am the only one in the house that drinks coffee and I have been roasting for about 6 years. I really so not think I will be able to justify an upgrade in a year or so. I am looking at this as a unit that will grow with me. Thanks in advance. Gary Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
Gary The Livia Semi-auto is a nice machine(same as Bezzera BZ99) but have heard of a number of control board repairs with used automatic model. The semi has just 2 switches one on left and one on right the auto has one on one side and a bank of three on the other. Ed B. On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 6:10 AM, GJTreehouse wrote: <Snip> -- Ed Bourgeois aka farmroast Amherst MA.http://www.aginclassroom.org/Homeroast mailing list">http://coffee-roasting.blogspot.com/ Co-President- Ma. Agriculture in the Classroomhttp://www.aginclassroom.org/Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
First off what kind of grinder do you have? You are better off with a $200.00 Gaggia and a Rocky or Mazzer Mini than a Solis Measto and either one of the machines you are looking at. The Livia is good machine. If it is in good shape that isn't a bad price. Nothing is more important in the world of esprsso than a good grind however. If it were me, I would look hard and careful at the Pasquini Livia 90. They have had problems in the past. You are not getting an HX machine, but one with duel thermoblocks. Since I have an Expobar, I can only say that it has been a wonderful machine, and once I learned the HX surf technique, I have been able to pull very good shots consistantly. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles that some machines have, but it does pull a great shot. Les On 4/29/08, GJTreehouse wrote: <Snip> Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
I used to have a Pasquini Livia 90 Automatic. It is a fine machine, and $400 sounds like an unbeatable price. But before you pull the trigger, how "used" is it? You do not have the protection of a warranty. You may find that at a bare minimum you will have to replace the grouphead gasket, and probably the pressurestat as well. Many long- time Livia owners have reported problems that were solved by replacing the wiring harness. Mine, which I bought new for $1100 in May 2005, had its pressurestat fail a month in (it was replaced free of charge, with the Cafe West/Baratza tech walking me through the procedure over the phone); I replaced one grouphead gasket myself a year and a half in (should have done it sooner). But in July 2007, it began leaking again and this time having the pump run as soon as the power was switched on. The repair shop to which I brought it (now that it was out of warranty) tried swapping out the wiring harness, computer control box, OPV, pressurestat and cabling to no avail--and they've never been able to figure out what caused the most recent and apparently fatal malfunction. The shop owner showed me two other Livia 90As that came in with shorted-out logic boards and melted parts; and said that Pasquini had admitted some problems with chrome plating flaking off the copper boiler into the water and also shorting out components where water got into the electronics (this latter allegation has not been corroborated to my knowledge, at least not on this list nor on HomeBarista or CoffeeGeek). Even when working correctly, it steamed milk too quickly to be controllable--installing a 2-hole tip did help but not completely. I now own a Quickmill LaCora (rebadged and souped-up Andreja Premium). It has an e61 grouphead, unlike the Livia and Silvia, whose groupheads are bolted to the boilers. With an e61 group, you should pull a cooling flush before brewing, whereas with a bolt-on group machine you need to pull a warming shot. The former tends to use a bit more water, the only downside. The e61 automatically preinfuses, and I can tell you that while I got good and occasionally great shots from the Livia, the ones I've been getting from the La Cora (all other variables being equal--tamp, grind, dose, freshness) have been absolutely phenomenal, the equal of what I've been getting from the best Third Wave cafes like Intelligentsia and Metropolis (and I've been privileged to be allowed to pull shots on machines at these cafes). The steam power on the La Cora, which has a commercial 2-hole tip standard, is much easier to control and microfoam easier to achieve with even a small 12-oz. pitcher/4 oz. milk. Not sure if the Expobar at which you're looking is an e61 machine (I know the Brewtus is). If it is, I would go for it at $800, rather than spend the same thing for a PID'd Silvia with smaller tank and boiler and inability to keep knocking out shot after shot or brew and steam sequentially/ simultaneously the way an HX like a Livia, La Cora or Expobar can. IIRC, Expobar (a Spanish company) may have had some more quality control issues in recent years than Italian companies like Rancilio or Quickmill (the Livia is made for Pasquini by Bezzera, and I would check to confirm whether my previous shop-owner's rumors were true). Given the choice of the three machines--used Livia, new PID Silvia, new Expobar Pulser--I'd go with the latter. In fact, when I bought the Livia (from Trishops.com) I had just been sniped twice on eBay for Expobar Office Control and Pulser at the same price--and that was three years ago. I think the La Cora beats all three of them, but $1395 sounds like more than you want to spend. Sandy Andina www.myspace.com/sandyandina On Apr 29, 2008, at 5:10 AM, GJTreehouse wrote: <Snip> Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
On Apr 29, 2008, at 10:17 AM, Les wrote: <Snip> NO!!! The Livia 90 (auto or semi) IS a true heat exchanger (HX) machine. You are confusing it with the new Livietta (which I think may be manufactured for Pasquini by Ascaso, a Spanish company), a dual- thermoblock machine. What it is not is an e61 machine--like many prosumer/light-duty commercial single-group HX and/or dual boiler machines (e.g., Magister MS-40, NS Oscar, La Spaziale) it has a grouphead bolted to the boiler instead of an e61 grouphead. This provides temperature stability (allegedly) but requires manual preinfusion. However, the Livia QC issues remain. Sandy Andina www.myspace.com/sandyandina Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
I'm only a pragmatist. The Livia 90 was earnestly suggested as my starter espresso machine, for $1500. I was trying to imagine just how the same filter basket and filter handle could be part of a machine that cost 10X the Livia and still brewed evil (to me) beverages. I wanted to satisfy myself that espresso is the beverage of some miscreant with attribution, but not so eager to spend the big bucks. You should consider why you can acquire a machine costing up to $2000 on today's market for a mere $400, and why is the current owner abandoning it? Others on this list have their own experience and opinions. Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa! Got Grinder? Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
Why abandon a perfectly good Prosumer HX machine? Upgraditis! People do it all the time moving on to dual boiler or simply better HX. Price does seem a bit low at $400 but Livia isn't going for $2k new either, more like $1579 for semi or $1739 for auto. But then Livia is a rather outdated design by today's Prosumer standards. Regardless I'd check it out for basic functionality and assume it'll need a good cleaning, descaling and new group gasket at the minimum. Pacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before. Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/ <Snip> Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
Thanks Everyone for your comments on the two machines. I do not know the history on the Livia 90 and given the concerns of many of you, I will go ahead and pick up the Expobar. The owners of the Expobars have had very good things to say about them. Now to the grinder. My bottom line minimum is a Rocky but I will search for a deal on a Mazzer if I can find one. Gary |