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Topic: After action report - 1st time pan roasting (19 msgs / 645 lines)
1) From: Bryan & Larina
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I just finished my first time roasting using a pan.  It wasn't as hard
as I thought and I achieved a roast level of around 4.  I became very
excited when I heard the first crack, and did notice the difference in
sound on the 2nd crack.  I have a couple of questions now:
1.	Should the coffee have the "normal" smell like when you buy it
whole bean at the store?  It really doesn't have much of any smell right
now (30 minutes after roasting).
2.	I used a cast iron pan which seemed to work ok.  My wife
expressed horror that I did that and said it would burn the coffee.  Any
idea if cast iron is bad?
3.	I took the beans right off the burner and put into a plastic
colander to get rid of the chaff.  I noticed that some of the oil was at
the bottom of the colander when I was finished.  Did I rob myself of
some of the flavor by doing this?  Should I do something different?
4.	I put the beans in a Tupperware container inside a cabinet to
keep them out of the light.  I plan to grind and brew them up tomorrow
morning for breakfast.  Any tips or ideas before tomorrow morning's joy?
You guys (and gals) are great.  Thanks to your tips I felt completely
confident trying this for the first time.
Thanks,
Bryan

2) From:
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
"Should the coffee have the "normal" smell like when you buy it whole bean
at the store?  It really doesn't have much of any smell right now (30
minutes after roasting)."
    The "roasted" odor takes a little to develop.  My fresh-roasted doesn't
have much aroma at all when I seal it up in the pint ball jars; but when I
open them up 2 days later... wow!
"I put the beans in a Tupperware container inside a cabinet to keep them out
of the light.  I plan to grind and brew them up tomorrow morning for
breakfast.  Any tips or ideas before tomorrow morning's joy?"
    Glass is probably better than Tupperware; less chance of the coffee
picking up other food odors (from whatever was previously in the container).
I don't think that light (as long as it isn't direct sunlight) has as much
to do with storing the roast, as contact with air.  Oxygen will steal the
flavor, so to speak, but the beans are de-gassing for a couple days, or so
they tell me, so I don't worry about what little "air" is in my glass
container (as long as the container is full to start with).
Tod

3) From: Bryan & Larina
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I snuck a smell about 4 hours later and did get a great aroma.  Thanks
for the info!
Bryan

4) From: Lee Conte
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
  admin]On Behalf Of tarnim
  Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 10:20 AM
       Glass is probably better than Tupperware; less chance of the coffee
picking up other food odors (from whatever was previously in the container).
I don't think that light (as long as it isn't direct sunlight) has as much
to do with storing the roast, as contact with air.  Oxygen will steal the
flavor, so to speak, but the beans are de-gassing for a couple days, or so
they tell me, so I don't worry about what little "air" is in my glass
container (as long as the container is full to start with).
I use ~1/2-pint amber glass jars.  I wonder about the light thing.  Light
degrades almost everything  over time.  Any food science people on the list
armed with data one way or the other?  ;)
Another thing I have wondered about is the degassing of the beans vs.
putting them in airtight containers.  I'm not really sure what literally
chemically is happening during degassing, but if a gas needs to be liberated
from the beans, and the beans are put into a tightly sealed container,
doesn't that actually prevent the gas in the beans from expanding and being
released?  Which is better - completely airtight containers, or ones which
are closed but not airtight?  My jars have screw caps that do not give an
extremely tight fit, so recently I started making "gaskets" by wrapping a
ribbon of plastic wrap around the jar threads before screwing the cap on,
which does the trick nicely.  Not sure if I really need to do that though.
------------------------------
Lee Conte
San Diego, California

5) From:
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I'll bet you're right about all that.  For me, the key phrase is "...over
time".  I don't worry about the light issue, since the coffee is gone in a
few days. ;)
I don't know much about the de-gassing, either.  I don't screw the lids on
very tight on the jars, so I'm guessing that gas is escaping.  This also
lets me get away with re-using the same set of jars for a longer period of
time (although a lot of them get given away as gifts, with freshly roasted
and possibly ground coffee in them).  Folks who vacuum-seal for longer term
storage, say they de-gas the roast for a period of time before the final
sealing.
The rest of my coffee corner (grinder, brewer, etc.) isn't up to more
stringent standards for the truly great coffee I want to make someday, so
I'm not so particular about storage (yet!).

6) From: Bryan & Larina
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I guess I missed the steps about de-gassing the beans.  What
specifically should be done about that?  I let the beans sit for about
15 minutes (to cool).  Based on what you have already said I assume that
is not a sufficient amount of time?
Thanks,
Bryan

7) From: Ryuji Suzuki -- JF7WEX
Degassing involves decomposition of something in the coffee. What
exactly is involved is probably complicated and may even change over
time. How much degassing is necessary, etc, are things to be
empirically determined, and I do not believe any theory about it.
However, this sort of thing is strongly influenced by temperature and
pressure. Vacuum or subatmospheric pressure accelerates gas-generating
reactions compared to conditions allowing normal ventilation, and the
opposite for tight closed containers and inert gas filled containers,
but we need to note that what we notice in flavor change may be
something else that is going on in parallel to the generation of the
gas (remember, when gas is generated, something else is decomposed).
In contrast, low temperature slows down pretty much all kinds of
reactions at a similar rate.
Say I think two-day degassing on my lighter full city Mandheling is
the best for its balance in cup. What I do is to let it degas in an
open container for a day or so at room temperature (while avoiding
exposure to heat and moisture), and freeze it after that
point. Degassing and aging slow down very much in freezer, and I can
maintain the peak for about a week. While the bean is frozen, I keep
it in a gas-tight glass container, but I see little pressure buildup
in the jar over a day or two. This is low-tech and simple enough that
I can do consistently for everyday coffee.
I grind frozen beans, and let it sit for a few minutes beforer
brewing. The effect of grinding heat is minimized this way, whather
you believe it harmful or not. I see little difference compared to
grind from pre-freezing bean.
While coffee is sitting in the freezer, light exposure is very minimal
so I don't even worry about it.
Vacuum, inert gas filling, UV-opaque glass, etc all sound nice to ears
but they will not improve the quality of fresh coffee, so I personally
would rather focus on finding the "right" bean and giving the right
roast than being bothered with those secondary issues.
--
Ryuji Suzuki
"I can't believe I'm here.
People always say that I'm a long way from normal."
(Bob Dylan, Normal, Illinois, 13 February 1999)
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

8) From:
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Bryan asked:  " I guess I missed the steps about de-gassing the beans.  What
specifically should be done about that?  I let the beans sit for about 15
minutes (to cool).  Based on what you have already said I assume that is not
a sufficient amount of time?"
I don't really understand this part, myself, but de-gassing is a "big deal".
Tom sells coffee bags with built-in one-way valves, that allow the gas
(that's created by the on-going chemical processes, this lasts for a couple
days at least, I think) to escape.  Others have talked at length about this,
I hope one of them responds!

9) From: Ryuji Suzuki -- JF7WEX
Let the roasted bean sit for a day or two in an container without
a tight seal. If your environment is dry, you can leave it on your
cooling container for a day. The coffee usually develops more flavor
and body over a couple of days while losing some undesirable
astringent edges and some desirable spiciness, etc. There is no hard
rule fo how many days for the best result. Some say central americans
require shorter degassing period, etc, but I personally see no clear
rule like that.
I sometimes blend rested coffee and freshly roasted coffee for
espresso.  When it succeeds, the fresh part adds some depth and
pleasant bitterness.
--
Ryuji Suzuki
"I can't believe I'm here.
People always say that I'm a long way from normal."
(Bob Dylan, Normal, Illinois, 13 February 1999)
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

10) From: Bryan & Larina
Very interesting.  So is two days a good rule of thumb for most coffees?
Thanks,
Bryan

11) From: Bryan & Larina
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
We just brewed the coffee and it was very good.  The beans were Sumatra
Mandheling.  I think I may roast them just a bit longer after the 2nd
crack with the next batch.
Bryan

12) From: Steven Dover

13) From: Steve Shank
If I needed a rule, I'd say 1 day. As a second rule, I'd say lighter roasts=
 generally need less time than darker roasts. I find most coffees fine=
 after 1 day. Many people find them fine immediately, but I usually roast=
 when I have a couple of days supply left. But some coffees taste better=
 longer. This week I had a Kenya and thought, "this isn't very good." The=
 next day (day 3) it was very good. I also let Yirgacheiff rest longer. The=
 thing is, try different waiting periods for different coffees and see what=
 you like best.
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
On 01/19/2002 at 3:31 PM Bryan & Larina wrote:
<Snip>
Steve Shank
Oregon Computer Solutionshttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast">http://www.steveshank.comhomeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

14) From: Ken Mary
I had always believed that the gas generating reactions were completed 
during roasting and that post roast degassing was merely due to the
diffusion of gas from the interior. But chemical reactions should be going
on all the time above absolute zero, and there could be "new" gas from
decomposition during storage. Freezing will slow these reactions, but may
also cause other effects that influence flavor. I have never frozen any of
my homeroast before, so it will be interesting to compare the difference.
Prior to homeroasting, it was my SOP to buy a few pounds of beans and
immediately freeze them.
--
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<Snip>
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15) From: europachris
I tried freezing homeroast - once.  I had roasted up a bunch and then had to go on a short notice business trip.  So, I put the beans into canning jars, sealed tightly, and into the freezer.  Upon returning home two weeks later, I let the beans return to room temp in the jars, and used them.
After the first pot, I threw them out.  They had a nasty chemical/off taste to them.  Totally nothing like they were before freezing.  Yuck.
Chris
"Ken Mary"  wrote:
<Snip>
--
Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop!http://webmail.netscape.com/homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast">http://shopnow.netscape.com/Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today athttp://webmail.netscape.com/homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

16) From: John - wandering Texas
Steve,
	I understand and almost agree with your point - except I'm a big fan of
Costa Rican Hacienda La Minita - and over several years of home roasting it,
I have found that it peaks on the third day.  Of the 18 beans that I have in
stock now I would let almost half of them rest for 2 days, and only the
stronger tasting would I try after only a day. Again, I'm sure this is a
matter of personal taste.  I guess the only way people will know is to try
it for themselves for several days and note the changes - both good and bad.
John - Swilling down a second Cona pot of a Hawaiian

17) From: Gary Zimmerman
Steve Shank wrote:
<Snip>
For my tastes, I find the opposite: lighter roasts seem to require a longer 
resting time, and tend to get "better" over two to three days of mellowing, 
while darker roasts (beyond full city) seem to peak at one to two days 
resting.  But I taste more of mine after about a day and a half (roast 
afternoons or night, mix a scoop of the latest roast with my current roast 
the next morning because I can't wait, then taste the new roast by itself 
the following morning).
More immediately and easily noticeable is the change in the fragrance of 
the beans post-roast.  I leave the top partially on and partially 
open.  The jars are open enough for free air circulation, but covered 
enough to keep the odors around.  Over the next several hours after 
roasting, I'll periodically sniff the jars and really notice as the wonder 
smells develop over the beans.  After sealing the jars (usually the morning 
after roasting), I'll go back and open-and-sniff after about an hour, and 
the smell is usually heavenly.
-- garyZ
Whirley-drip(paper)-black
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18) From: Steve Shank
Actually, I typed wrong. Sorry. Lighter should be rested longer, darker=
 normally needs LESS rest. That is why Yirgageffe, La Minita, and Kenyan=
 should all be rested longer. I said less time, I meant MORE time. Age you=
 know. I agree by the way, La Minita is very good.
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
On 01/21/2002 at 7:44 AM John - wandering Texas wrote:
<Snip>
 roasts
<Snip>
 after
<Snip>
 is,
<Snip>
Steve Shank
Oregon Computer Solutionshttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast">http://www.steveshank.comhomeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

19) From: Steve Shank
You are completely right. I wrote wrong. Lighter normally needs to be=
 rested longer.
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
On 01/21/2002 at 9:32 AM Gary Zimmerman wrote:
<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
Steve Shank
Oregon Computer Solutionshttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast">http://www.steveshank.comhomeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast


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