HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Grinders, On the road again (45 msgs / 1037 lines)
1) From: sci
What do ya'll do about grinding on the road? I'm going away for 2 weeks and
gotta figure something out.
Do you
Cart a Zass?
A Turkish grinder?
A weed whacker/lawn mower (yeech)?
Grind at home and carry ground coffee?
Lug your Mazzer Luigi?
This is probably a topic that has been discussed before, so I know ya'll
have a solution.
I'll probably take enough vac-pac'd beans to last the whole trip. Thank
goodness for AP.
Thanks,
Ivan
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2) From: Bill
Good, Ivan, you identified your brewing method... you're using the AP.  I
use a Bodum C-Mill with no problem at all.  If I was using something without
a paper filter, I would likely use a better grinder; but the paper AP filter
does fine with the whirly blade.  Others definitely use other means, but I'm
pretty pleased with this method.
bill in wyo
ps how you heating the water?  I use a bodum mini-ibis water kettle, but
have been eye-balling an immersion heater...
On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 11:23 PM, sci  wrote:
<Snip>
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3) From: Sandy Andina
Zass Turkish for me when alone, or a Starbuck's whirly if I have to  
make coffee for the family.
Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
On May 25, 2008, at 12:23 AM, sci wrote:
<Snip>
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4) From: Larry English
I grind some for the first 2-3 days, but carry whole beans and small grinder
for more.  I've carried both the Zass Turkish (currently) and a Traveler II
(pre-Zass).  The Zass is heavy but produces nice even grinds; the Traveler
is light and cheap but less even. In either grinder it takes me about as
long to grind enough for one cup as it takes to heat a cup of water.  If
flying, carry all in checked baggage - the grinders can look menacing in the
carry-on xray gizmos.
Larry
On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 10:23 PM, sci  wrote:
<Snip>
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5) From: Michael Wascher
I do one of the following:
Cart a Zass?
A weed whacker/lawn mower (yeech)?
Grind at home and carry ground coffee?
I carry usually an inexpensive electric kettle too. Found it on sale for
$10, Plastic, nearly unbreakable.
On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 1:23 AM, sci  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"Excess on occasion is exhilarating. It prevents moderation from acquiring
the deadening effect of a habit." --W. Somerset Maugham
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6) From: Sheila Quinn
Ditto what Bill said -- Bodum C-Mill whirly blade with an AP. I also 
take along my electric kettle to heat the water, of course.
Sheila
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7) From: Sandy Andina
I went with the Mini-Ibis because its shape (oval profile) fits easily  
in a suitcase or backpack--the cheapies tend to be round and harder to  
pack.  For this weekend trip to Ann Arbor (playing tonight at Old Town  
Tavern), I took my on-the-road coffee backpack with Zass Turkish,  
travel press mug, pourover, filters, whirly and Harar Horse; but this  
morning while I waited for breakfast I tasted the hotel's coffee and  
was wowed--instead of the usual supermarket stuff (they have Haxwell  
Mouse packets for the in-room pots), they serve Rainforest Alliance  
Brazilian, and it was the best hotel coffee I've ever tasted, better  
even than the Green Mt. stuff the old Garden City Wingate Inn used to  
serve.  The restaurant was closing till dinner, so the waitress poured  
me a pot to take back up to the room.   First time in four years  
(except when staying at Paul's house ;) ) I will have not used any of  
my own beans on a road trip!
Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
On May 25, 2008, at 9:02 AM, Michael Wascher wrote:
<Snip>
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8) From: Matthew Price
On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 12:23 AM, sci  wrote:
<Snip>
I'll just chime in on this one point.  I have a zass so that's what I
use.  It is an old knee mill with "Made in West Germany" stamped on
the bottom.  However, if I would not recommend anyone going out and
getting a zass based on my experience.  They are expensive grinders
for the results you get.  As soon as my piggy bank fills up I'll be
trading up to a Solis Maestro and mothballing the zass.
A whirly blade would probably give you results that are almost as good
as the zass for a fraction of the price.
Matthew
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9) From: Dave Kvindlog
I cart a Zass around.  I carry my suitcase on the airplane...you should see
some of the looks and questions I get from the TSA screeners...that Zass
handle and grinding mechanism really gets them...
I've pre-ground for 2-3 day trips too, but the coffee too quickly looses
it's freshness and zing.
-- 
Dave Kvindlog
iHomeroast
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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10) From: J.W.Bullfrog
same thing here.
On 5/27/08, Dave Kvindlog  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
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11) From: Joseph Robertson
Dave,
I was coming home from Vermont roasting school last Feb. I got pulled aside
and everything opened. I had a few bags coffee I roasted in class and my
Zass and other coffee lab related items. As soon as the screener opened the
bag the smell of fresh roasted coffee exploded over  the area. The screener
say's " Hey guys check this out there only bags of coffee beans." I guess
they looked like bags of pills. Then he say's " now I have to have a cup.
Funny ....
JoeR
On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 8:01 AM, Dave Kvindlog  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and pallet reform.
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12) From: Dave Kvindlog
A Solis Maestro will be a heavy grinder to put in your suitcase.  ;-)  I use
my Zass for the office and for travel only.  I use a bigger electric grinder
at home.  And by the way, I upgraded to my Zass from a whirly...huge
difference in fines and more consistent grind.  Not even in the same class.
On 5/27/08, Matthew Price  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Dave Kvindlog
iHomeroast
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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13) From: sci
I agree. I have two Zasses. I might buy a turkish style grinder for travel.
However, my Zasses, while cool and nice for not needing power, don't really
produce highest quality grinds. Hence, the AP. Zass is a little overrated by
some.  My test is to make several grinds from a grinder and put them through
a fine screened sifter to see how much fine powder they produce. (which is
also the way I make my best FP).  This sifter test can keep track of how
sharp burrs are too. New burrs produce less powders. As they dull, they
produce more.
For the money, a Zass isn't the best value, but for travel, office, power
outages, panache, and CSA points..:-)
One last thing: I wish a Zass's burrs could be replaced; who knows if they
can be sharpened.
Ivan
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 08:51:41 -0500
From: "Matthew Price" 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Grinders, On the road again
To: homeroast
Message-ID:
       
Content-Type: text/plain; charsetO-8859-1
On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 12:23 AM, sci  wrote:
<Snip>
I'll just chime in on this one point.  I have a zass so that's what I
use.  It is an old knee mill with "Made in West Germany" stamped on
the bottom.  However, if I would not recommend anyone going out and
getting a zass based on my experience.  They are expensive grinders
for the results you get.  As soon as my piggy bank fills up I'll be
trading up to a Solis Maestro and mothballing the zass.
A whirly blade would probably give you results that are almost as good
as the zass for a fraction of the price.
Matthew
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14) From: Brian Kamnetz
Ivan,
If you don't mind sharing it, I'd be interested in knowing your
opinion of what grinder IS the best value for the money.
Thanks,
Brian
On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 8:18 PM, sci  wrote:
<Snip>
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15) From: Mike Koenig
When I travel, I tend to "go native" (at risk of losing CSA points).
Just got back from 2 weeks in Spain, and there was no way I was
bringing even pre-ground coffee, nevermind grinding and brewing
apparatus, since gigantic suitcases tend to be inconvenient when
moving around to several cities.
I was able to get a drinkable shot almost anywhere I went.  Even the
smallest "cafeteria" has a giant 2 or 3 group machine.  It seems most
people drink espresso with milk that has been steamed to oblivion,
either a drop of milk in an espresso cup (called a cortado) or with
more milk in a cup resembling a juice glass (cafe con leche).
Baristas tend to put a BIG pitcher of milk under the steam wand, open
the valve, then go do something else for about a minute until it's
making the screeching sound.  Produces a very hot milk with no foam,
that surprisingly tasted pretty decent.
I tended to get a look of "you really want that?" if I ordered a
straight shot of espresso.  It seems most of the locals don't drink
straight shots.
Nothing was up to the level of my homeroast, but none of the coffee I
had was horrible, plus I got the right to sit at an outside table and
watch the scene on the streets and experience the local culture, which
I would not get fiddling with homeroast in my hotel room.
There's also the convenience of being packed in 2 smaller suitcases
for my wife and I, which makes using public transportation a viable
option when moving around with luggage.  The money I saved from Taxi
costs alone will buy me a couple of 5 pound bags of greens.
--mike
On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 1:23 AM, sci  wrote:
<Snip>
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16) From: Lynne
Well, duh - you were in *Spain...*
I am so jealous.. ;D
Lynne
(sigh... remembering my only trip there.. some 30+ years ago)
Mike Koenig said:
<Snip>
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17) From: sci
I wish there was a good way to answer that question, but everybody will have
different needs and expectations from a grinder. And everybody gets these at
different prices too. So, one person may only do FP and be satisfied and
well served by a Solis. Another may only do espresso and would abhor a
Solis. High end espresso grinders allow such fine tuning that it doesn't
make much sense to use them for anything else; they are such thoroughbreds.
IMHO, for an all round workhorse that can also do a little s'pro, the
Virtuoso is a good deal, Baratza is a good service company. But for a little
more the Rocky, or a little more a Macap or Mazzer. So like anything other
consumer product, you have to figure out what you really need. For me, the
Virtuoso (at $199 or less) is serving me very well at the moment at home for
AP/FP/Moka/Vac/Chemex/occas. Esp.
But on the road with trusty AP, the Zass (better than whirly blade) for now
suffices. A Zass with a sifter for FP is not bad either, excellent really.
I'm not worried about wasting a gram of coffee powder that I don't want in
my FP! After all, we're only talking about a nickle's worth of wasted coffee
when my comrades are down at FourBucks getting burnt brew!
 I'm searching for a good Turkish grinder. BTW, for hot water, I use the
immersion gizmos.
Ivan
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If you don't mind sharing it, I'd be interested in knowing your
opinion of what grinder IS the best value for the money.
Thanks,
Brian
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18) From: Vicki Smith
I saw a neat product recently--the Brunopasso Micro powder separator. At 
least one of the places that sells it (competes with SM so no links) 
also carries paper filters for French Presses. Now, if it is the lovely 
oils that attract one to FP, that item might not be very appealing.
vicki
sci wrote:
<Snip>
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19) From: Vicki Smith
I lied (well, I misremembered) the paper filters are for vacuum pots.
v
Vicki Smith wrote:
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20) From: Brian Kamnetz
Ivan,
Are you using a fine sifter of the kitchen variety?
Thanks,
Brian
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 1:01 AM, sci  wrote:
<Snip>
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21) From: Allon Stern
On May 30, 2008, at 2:03 AM, Vicki Smith wrote:
<Snip>
Here's an idea for quick 'n dirty separation of fines --
pour the grounds into a styrofoam cup, then swish them around and  
pour them out. The smaller particles should cling due to static  
electricity; the larger particles will be too heavy and should pour out.
Anyone wanna give it a try?
-
allon
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22) From: Dave Kvindlog
Engineer!
On 5/30/08, Allon Stern  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Dave Kvindlog
iHomeroast
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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23) From: sci
Yep, just a plain fine-grained kitchen sifter. I got a smallish one about
3.5" diameter with the finest screen I could find. Oneida in SS. It does
wonders. That Brunopasso sifter-basket gizmo looks cool, but hard to find
and probably pricey. Anyway, an FP comes out really nice with the micro
powders removed, and it really only takes a few seconds. Great cure for
sub-par grinder.
Ivan
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Are you using a fine sifter of the kitchen variety?
Thanks,
Brian
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24) From: raymanowen
"Great cure for sub-par grinder."
I, too, have such a cure, but it doesn't leave you in the class of
restaurateur that scrapes the burnt toast rather than adjust, repair or
replace the faulty appliance.
If the cook has time to scrape burnt toast, from where did the extra time
come and what else doesn't he care about? Care to try his coffee? Throw the
coffee away, rather than the SNAFU grinder.
Way to go! Got Grinder? No. Who cares- it's only coffee.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976
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25) From: Seth Grandeau
Hmmm.  $10 sifter...$500 grinder...$10 sifter...$500 grinder.  We all need
to make the decisions that are right for us.  And, at the end of the day I
just the restaurant by how the toast tastes, now how high quality the
toaster is.  Isn't that all that matters?
On 6/1/08, raymanowen  wrote:
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26) From: raymanowen
Apologies are in order again.
<Snip>
most manufacturers are willing to produce shiny toys with buttons, knobs and
neon glow indicator lights, to the exclusion of basic machines that do just
one thing well.
There are only two things I care about with respect to coffee, and they both
devolve through a fairly rigorous train of thought.
At this point, right here and now, decide what will be your annual (every
year) involvement with coffee.
Now, let's resume the sophomoric comparison: "$10 sifter...$500
grinder...$10 sifter...$500 grinder," with two factors restored to the
argument. Coffee cost*, waste, and priceless flavor and aroma. If you're
satisfied with the farm, stay there. Paris is a damned lie.
Cost* is never fully explored, although the facts are having their own
infernal dance, right in front of our noses. Between coffee and a certain
weed, which one will survive as the shrub of choice, do you think?
One is extremely difficult to grow and Hell to get to market intact. For the
other, customers would line up on your fence line and even help you harvest-
no transport involved. "No checks accepted."
You won't need a $10 sifter to hide the effects of a crummy grinder so you
can devote the results of the best growing climates, cultivation and cupping
efforts to destruction.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
A factor is not insignificant, just because you arbitrarily ignore it...
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27) From: Seth Grandeau
RayO,
Coffee has that wonderful trait that all great hobbies share...You can
always spend more money. :)  I know that, eventually, I will buy a real
grinder.  But I don't have a great one right now (Baratza Maestro), and I'm
thinking that a $10 sifter would have saved all the priceless flavor and
aroma of a vac pot that I ruined, because I had enough dust to clog the cory
rod and give me a 9 minute extraction, when I was shooting for 3:30.  I
would have much preferred to have wasted a gram of dust, rather than the 56
grams of Yemen glory in the bitter pot I brewed. :(
On 6/1/08, raymanowen  wrote:
<Snip>
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28) From: raymanowen
"a gram of dust"
That's the stuff that comes loose from the coffee particles that are torn
apart, like sheets of paper that are torn. I've used the analogy of homework
turned in on sheets of paper torn out of a spiral notebook or the
perforations of some composition notebooks.
The rough surfaces that persist are equally bad. The fuzzy surface is a flat
surface with dust particles attached. Coffee dust -and the surface fuzz- do
only one thing: extract Instantly. While you're waiting for the main
particles to soak and extract, the dust has already crossed the Finish line.
The Maestros are not bad grinders, but the upper -ring- burrs were always
cut with a dull hob on their gear shaping machine. The result is a very
rough burr that scratches massive quantities of tiny particles out of every
bean it touches.
The 12X inspection loupe is a Revelation according to Edmund! With the beans
really torn up out of the grinder, I thought- "Why not freeze them so
they'll crack apart rather than tear apart?" Flash freeze improved the
Maestro and yields ultra clean with the Mazzer.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
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29) From: Seth Grandeau
I had read your "flash freezing" idea before and it sounds very
interesting.  I may have to give that a try.
I've read that the upper model Maestros are decent, but I have the bottom of
the barrel.  Even with the burrs touching, when empty (only run for a 1/2
second), I still can't get my espresso machine to give me a 20 second shot
(nevermind 25).
I think my other problem may be chaff.  I've recently switched from IR2 to
Behmor and I'm noticing that more chaff sticks to the coffee.  I see it as
the stuff that sticks (through static) to the plastic bin of the Maestro.
I'm wondering if those particles may be what's stalling my cory rod.  I may
have to go back to the cloth, which yields consistent results, but is a pain
to clean.
Have a good one!
-Seth
On 6/1/08, raymanowen  wrote:
<Snip>
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30) From: sci
Seth, RayO, Brian, et. al.
My sifter was $5 and it can multi-task in the kitchen. So we're talking
about pretty basic equipment even if you don't use if for coffee. I use it
when I want to do my best FP, my fav method. I have a Virtuoso, no slouch,
and even with new burrs, there's a tiny pinch of micro dust in a 15 gram
dose for my mini FP. But that little pinch maybe only a bean or two worth of
coffee. The waste is negligible at this point in the game (I have 100# of
green coffee so a bean or two won't hurt). I don't have any $500 grinders
(yet), but I suspect even they will produce some micro dust, because the
beans are so brittle that when the shaving of the burrs hits them, some dust
is going to happen, even with razor sharp burrs.
Maybe somebody who has a top-end grinder could do a sifter test on a
prescribed amount of beans (say 15 grams) and tell us about how much
micro-dust gets produced. I'd like to know how the  Mazzers, Macaps, etc.
perform on this. But of course, there's the variable of the grind setting
that would be hard to pin down. And then the sifter could be a little
different. Lastly, I bet some beans/origins make more dust than others,
regardless of grinder. Maybe some roast levels are dustier too.
Bottom line: the Sifter is a dirt-cheap way to compensate for lots of
unknown variables, regardless of grinder.
Got Sifter?
Ivan
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 16:56:02 -0400
From: "Seth Grandeau" 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Grinders, On the road again
To: homeroast
Message-ID:
       <1b43ec7e0806011356k5e78c1av8a28e6522acca7e0>
Content-Type: text/plain; charsetO-8859-1
RayO,
Coffee has that wonderful trait that all great hobbies share...You can
always spend more money. :)  I know that, eventually, I will buy a real
grinder.  But I don't have a great one right now (Baratza Maestro), and I'm
thinking that a $10 sifter would have saved all the priceless flavor and
aroma of a vac pot that I ruined, because I had enough dust to clog the cory
rod and give me a 9 minute extraction, when I was shooting for 3:30.  I
would have much preferred to have wasted a gram of dust, rather than the 56
grams of Yemen glory in the bitter pot I brewed. :(
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31) From: MichaelB
There's more to the output of a quality grinder than the absence of fines.
All grinders produce fines. But the best grinders shave the beans into
fluffy particles that extract better than beans that are hacked into chunks
by inexpensive grinder burrs. The difference will be especially noted in
espresso but you will notice a taste improvement with all variations of
grind and brewing methods.
Many of us started out with inexpensive grinders, upgraded to slightly
better grinders, and generally resisted the ultimate step to a
professional grinder. After we took that ultimate step, the universal
comment was that we should have done it sooner.
On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 8:29 PM, sci  wrote:
<Snip>
--
MichaelB
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32) From: Jamie Dolan
<Snip>
What kind of sifter are we talking about?  The kinds of sifters I can
think of would still all allow my espresso grinds to go right through
them.
Jamie
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33) From: Barry Luterman
Amen
On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 3:04 PM, MichaelB  wrote:
<Snip>
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34) From: Allon Stern
On Jun 1, 2008, at 9:04 PM, MichaelB wrote:
<Snip>
I was lucky - I started out with an RR45 from a pawn shop back in '93  
or '94, THEN figured that with a commercial espresso grinder, I  
needed an espresso machine :)
-
allon
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35) From: raymanowen
I agree muchly about the fines. Any time a solid is broken or torn apart,
fine particulate is produced.
For my grinder, that I use for My coffee alone, I need an output that looks
less like broken twigs and branches, and more like broken icicles. The
latter is a poor illustration because the molecular structure of ice is
impervious to liquid water molecules. Duh-
The molecular structure of the fibrous coffee particles is like a sponge
compared to H2O molecule size. The coffee can look fairly smooth to the eye,
even at 10X magnification, but it is infused by water just like an ink
blotter, and that's what it looks like at high magnification.
Think- if that weren't true, coffee couldn't be infused by water unless the
coffee were ground to microscopic dust. You couldn't terminate the infusion
fast enough. Ditto the fines that remain attached to the coffee particles.
I put surface frozen beans into the grinder, and the grounds output are
cold. The motor is no slouch, but grinding is so efficient and fast that
very little energy is transferred to the grounds. 14g used to take little
longer than *Phht! *Maybe 3 - 4 seconds.
The particle size of the Steinway brew this morning was 0.031" (the burr
separation), and my last espresso grind size was 0.0124". They don't drift
during a grind and they're exactly resettable sizes. Just turn the nut. It
and the upper burr and carrier out weigh the Maestro.
Never mind all that, the Uganda Bugisu at FC+ on 48 hours' rest made a spicy
Steinway this morning. I'm tempted to fire up The Leaker and go for a double
in a few hours from now. Rotsa Ruck, Ray. Nothing tried, nothing gained-
it's a leak, not a flood...
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976
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36) From: Paul Helbert
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 12:48 AM,   wrote:
 Rotsa Ruck, Ray. Nothing tried, nothing gained-
<Snip>
I understood "Rosta Ruck" but never have figured out "Mabuhay" or
"Iechyd da". I even had my wife explain piglatin to me... no help.
-- 
Paul Helbert
Prepackaged, roasted & ground coffee,,,
Some of the worst ideas since sliced bread.
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37) From: Vicki Smith
I used the lowest level Maestro (the Classic) for years and years, with 
new upper burrs every 75 pounds or so. It was OK for drip and KMB, not 
good enough for French Press or Espresso. I just bought another Maestro 
Classic for my work coffee, which is KMB in the AM and single serve 
pourover later in the day if I want a mid-afternoon cup. My co-workers 
use it for drip. At it's price point, and for the right grind, it's 
fine. I never had a problem using the Maestro in my Yama vacuum pot. I 
did have to use a fairly large grind when I wanted to use it with a rod, 
rather than with the cloth filter.
I recently had the chance to try the Rocky with new burrs side-to-side 
with the Maestro (new burrs). Even with KMB and drip, I could tell the 
difference in a blind tasting between the two. This does not mean the 
Maestro was unacceptable, but the cup was not as good and I thought I 
got more nuanced flavours out of the Rocky ground beans.
If I were really serious about espresso (I only dabble) I would have 
gone with the Mazzer. I wouldn't travel with it though, and I travel 
with my Maestro anytime I am going away in the car, rather than on an 
airplane.
vicki
Seth Grandeau wrote:
I've read that the upper model Maestros are decent, but I have the bottom of
the barrel.  Even with the burrs touching, when empty (only run for a 1/2
second), I still can't get my espresso machine to give me a 20 second shot
(nevermind 25).
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38) From: Allon Stern
On Jun 2, 2008, at 8:11 AM, Paul Helbert wrote:
<Snip>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mabuhay_%28expression%29Mabuhay (pronunciation: mah-BOO-hahy) is a word derived from the  =
Tagalog language of the Philippines. It is an expression used by the  =
Tagalog people to say: 1. Welcome. 2. Hello. 3. Greetings. It is also  =
used to exclaim “long live” or the Filipino version of Live long and  =
prosper. It can be compared to the Romance language expression “Vive,  =
Viva.” This expression is most often used at toasts during gatherings  =
and parties.
The root word buhay means 1. life 2. alive 3. live; become alive.
andhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/=
List_of_English_words_of_Welsh_origin indicates that iechyd da  is a  =
welsh expression similar to "Cheers!".
-
allon
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39) From: raymanowen
Mabuhay, ma- boo- hi,  is "cheers" in Tagalog (Philippines), iechyd da is
the same in Welsh. Seriously sounds like you're hocking a loogie... -ro
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Paul Helbert  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Mighty
Wichita (ex- NYC Paramount) WurliTzer- 1976
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40) From: Sandy Andina
L'chaim (hocking an even bigger loogie in Yiddish)!
Sandy Andina
www.myspace.com/sandyandina
On Jun 2, 2008, at 8:16 AM, raymanowen wrote:
<Snip>
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41) From: sci
A very fine screened sifter works best. Somebody here once suggested lab
sifters which have precise screen sizes down to a very fine size. I haven't
got one yet, hard to find, but I'd love to have a set.
I don't use the sifter for espresso. But it may be worth a try.
A method worth trying is to use one of the Swiss Gold basket filters (or
like model) as a sifter. They are very fine screened. Just put the coffee in
there and agitate it over a sink. The powders will fall out. Use remaining
coffee. When I do a drip pot with Gold filters, I do a quick sift to get at
least some of the powders out before I do the pour over. Those powders are
going to wind up in your cup anyway, so why not use the filter to get them
out beforehand.
As for the grinder.  Sure, go ahead and get a top end pro model if you can
afford it and your spouse doesn't flip. I will someday. But the nature of
the bean is to make some powder. I don't care about that much with some
extraction methods (like AP, which is filtered and so fast), but FP & VP is
where I want to eliminate them. As for the ultimate grinder, I'm getting a
Romulan Molecular Disruptor and setting it on stun which should pulverize
the beans without even touching them.
I'm gonna try RayO's Freeze machine method. Theoretically works, cheap,
easy. I wonder if keeping the grinder burrs frozen with liquid nitrogen
would help.
Ivan
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 20:09:29 -0500
From: "Jamie Dolan" 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] Grinders, On the road again
To: homeroast
Message-ID:
       
Content-Type: text/plain; charsetO-8859-1
<Snip>
What kind of sifter are we talking about?  The kinds of sifters I can
think of would still all allow my espresso grinds to go right through
them.
Jamie
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42) From: Seth Grandeau
You could always try "lasers".
On 6/2/08, sci  wrote:
<Snip>
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43) From: raymanowen
I've gotten into the habit of flash freezing almost everything, except the
25g for the initial Steinway after a roast. The burrs have remained almost
pristine since then.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
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44) From: Jamie Dolan
<Snip>
I'm lucky, Karen offered to pay for the grinder.  I think that after
she hears about something enough times, she decides it is easier to
just buy it for me then to have to keep listening to me talk about it.
 :-)  Oh yea, and the cusinart sounds more like a food disposal
grinding marbles than a coffee grinder, and it can wake her up from
the opposite end of the house.  I told her the mazzer is very quiet.
I will try the filter thing when I find one.  I think I have a swiss
gold type here somewhere.  It would be a handy trick to know, to be
able to improve the grind from a lower end grinder.
I hope that the days of worrying about my grind will be gone soon.  I
think it will be here on Wednesday.
<Snip>
LOL
Tea Earl Grey, Hot.
Jamie
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45) From: raymanowen
"...to improve the grind from a lower end grinder." [Indeed- it is very
simple...] As I proved to myself from my earliest press and espresso brews,
You Can't Afford to hang on to a cheap toy grinder, unless you are willing
to also accept that what you are drinking is pretend coffee. But everyone
before you has exerted intense effort to provide you with the best raw
materials on the planet.
That's Haile Selassie of you.
My fear is that the labor intensive coffee agriculture will lose its place
in the fertile areas of the planet to the highly rewarding field of "weed"
agriculture. The Golden Rule holds that hard work paid in slave wages will
inexorably drive the laborers and their families to more lucrative
endeavors.
Want superb coffee a few years hence? Sharpen the sickle and gas up the John
Deere now.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Keep track of the seed stock.
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