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Topic: AP "Espresso" (21 msgs / 477 lines)
1) From: Frank Awbrey
Has anyone on the list tried an espresso made using the AP? Last evening, I
finally tried an "espresso" shot made from the Aero Press and found it
surprisingly good (I know that it is not a "true" espresso). I actually made
it using the suggested method from the AP's instruction booklet. This means
I used approx 1 oz. of water with one scoop of beans. In the past, I would
just use a "little" less water for a stronger tasting cup. But now, I wonder
if anyone/who has actually tried this method and how do you like it? How
does it compare with a "normal" shot of espresso (good shot)?
I have tried commercial espressos from *$ and the like and never really
liked the flavor. But I did like the taste of this. The bean was an S.O.
roasted in my air popper to a C+--Ethiopian Yirgacheffe Konga. It was really
sweet.
Now, a couple of more questions, I grind with a Zass. Should I try to make
it a really fine grind like one would use in an espresso machine or can I
use my normal grind (fairly fine, I guess)? Should I order one of Tom's
"espresso blends" that he has, or just keep trying the S.O.'s? Thanks for
any input/help.
-- 
Frank
"Still the one"
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2) From: Frank Awbrey
Don't see it on the posts, so am replying to myself to see if it will post?
On 6/14/08, Frank Awbrey  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Frank
"Still the one"
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3) From: R Nepsund
My current favorite bean with the AP is the Moka Kadir  blend.  Which is for
espresso or pour over.  Since that worked out I'm getting ready to try the
Monkey blend. The first batch of it is resting now.   You can find a lot of
discusion of the AP on the CoffeeGeek.com forums.  Currently I do it
inverted, so the watter doesn't drip out, with about 1/3 more water ,15
seconds off the boil, stiring for 20-25 seconds.  If you think about using
the poly felt filter you may want to check out the coffee oils & cholestorol
issues.  I was doing that, but had to stop because of my cholestorol.  Oh
when you next want to splurge on your coffee hobby think grinder,
grider,grinder.  I have an el-cheapo burr grinder for now, but I'm having
trouble talking myself into spending about $200+ on a grinder at the moment.
On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Frank Awbrey  wrote:
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4) From: Bill
Frank,
I would grind for the AP as fine as you can anyway.  Find the stir time that
best suits you (I like about 10 seconds is all).  I don't think that the AP
can compare with espresso because of the lack of oils.  But it's still a
great simple way to make coffee...
YMMV.
bill in wyo
On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Frank Awbrey  wrote:
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5) From: miKe mcKoffee
If you're going to compare "commercial espresso" via Starbucks and the like
to AP brew I suggest you get a can of Folgers or like for the AP. Starbucks
is NOT about good espresso, not even close. OTOH if you want to experience
good espresso to compare to an AP brew of good coffee then seek out good
espresso. There are numerous very good independents around the country.
Check out www.espressomap.com as a starting place...
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffeehttp://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://www.mcKonaKoffee.comURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/
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6) From: Brian Kamnetz
On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 1:56 AM, Bill  wrote:
<Snip>
Bill,
Bill, are you saying that grind for the AP should be as fine as, say,
for Turkish coffee (which is to say, powder)?
Thanks,
Brian
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7) From: Seth Grandeau
I find that, if I grind too fine, it will clog the filter and require
considerable force to push the plunger all the way through, particularly if
you do 3 or more scoops of coffee.
On 6/15/08, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
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8) From: Dennis & Marjorie True
well Tom has stated the best coffee is made from the finest grind you 
can use for a particular brewing method  (I'm paraphrasing of course)
I try to remember this when brewing coffee and most of all when I'm 
trying a new brewing method
Dennis
(On leave enjoying a bit of time off before I head to Cuba)
Seth Grandeau wrote:
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9) From: Bill
Brian,
thanks for the clarification.  No, what I meant is what Dennis said: grind
as fine as you can for the filter medium.  On my MP that's about halfway
between "drip" and "espresso".  Adjust grounds to taste.  I generally invert
because I don't like the run-through...
And Dennis, I hope that your tour in Cuba is good!
bill in wyo
On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 9:01 AM, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
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10) From: Brian Kamnetz
Thanks for the clarification, Bill. I've had an AP for several months
now but haven't taken the time to learn to use it yet. I DO have a
folder full of instructions, not the least of which is your summary of
the 1500 or however many pages it was that you read from CoffeeGeek.
So, having not actually used my AP yet, I don't have much of a
framework of reference and I'm easily confused.
Brian
On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 1:16 PM, Bill  wrote:
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11) From: Bill
Brian,
break it out and try it!  The thing about the AP is that it's really easy.
 Just do what you would normally do, and you'll have a great cup.  Then you
can start tweaking things to find the sweet spot for you.  But don't be
afraid of it at all, it's really simply and well designed.  Always keep the
questions coming, that's what this list is for!
bill in wyo
On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
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12) From: sci
Frank,
AP is awesome, but Espresso it ain't, as you said.
I use AP more than any of my 8-10 different coffee making methods. It is
just so efficient. Maybe I'm lazy. I carry it with me to the office, etc,
etc. It will make coffee almost as strong as espresso. Mix this with hot or
foamed milk to make latte or cap and you probably won't be able to tell it
isn't real espresso. AP makes a great latte.
Espresso is truly a different animal. At 9 bar pressure and higher than
boiling temperature steam forced through fine ground coffee in 25 seconds,
something magic occurs that can't happen with any of our other methods. No
craft that we possess can extract like this. Oils and water mix under those
conditions, a creamy essence that is surely the nectar of the gods.
I have currently given up on making good espresso at home due to the cost of
good equipment needed, exacting methods and time required, among other
reasons. So when I want a good espresso, I head out to a local shop that
uses a Vienna roast for espresso. *$ is awful, really. I'd like to drink C+
and FC espressos if I could.
As for best coffees for AP: anything! Anything roasted well.
It is a forgiving method when considering the variables of grind, temp,
time, etc. I have only had one cup of bad coffee from an AP and it was due
to a friend's junk burr grinder that can't grind finer than FP. I'm tending
to grind finer than drip, but a bit coarser than espresso, using 180-185F
water, stirring 15 seconds, using two "seasoned" or washed filters (to
increase osmotic pressure a little).
FWIW,
Ivan
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:03:16 -0700
From: "Frank Awbrey" 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] AP "Espresso"
To: homeroast
Message-ID:
       
Content-Type: text/plain; charsetO-8859-1
Don't see it on the posts, so am replying to myself to see if it will post?
On 6/14/08, Frank Awbrey  wrote:
<Snip>
I
<Snip>
made
<Snip>
means
<Snip>
wonder
<Snip>
really
<Snip>
--
Frank
"Still the one"
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13) From: Ira
At 05:22 PM 6/15/2008, you wrote:
<Snip>
It's not hotter than boiling, it's just under a lot of pressure. Brew 
espresso over boiling and you won't want to drink it.
Ira
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14) From: Allon Stern
On Jun 15, 2008, at 8:22 PM, sci wrote:
<Snip>
Higher than boiling temperature steam forced through the coffee?!  ur  
doin it wrong.
Espresso is made with hot water, right around 200 degrees.
-
allon
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15) From: Frank Awbrey
Did you use the Moka Kadir blend in the AP as an "espresso", i.e., one scoop
of beans to just about 1 oz of water or to the number "1" mark on the
chamber? I do/have read the CG forums and actually posted this same question
over there when I did not see it post on this board here after about 2 hours
or so (I have started a post before and no posting was done, as someone more
recently has had happened to them, too).
I did buy the Zass as it is highly recommended here and do not plan on
buying a more expensive grinder (it's usually about the money, huh?) as I am
not currently looking for an espresso machine.
On 6/14/08, R Nepsund  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Frank
"Still the one"
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16) From: Frank Awbrey
I do second that, Bill.
On 6/14/08, Bill  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Frank
"Still the one"
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17) From: Frank Awbrey
miKe, I have looked at that map before, but unfortunately there is nothing
close to me, the closest being in Tucson, AZ, about 250 miles away. I don't
travel down that way much.
Don't get me wrong. This cup that I had made from the AP was very good, much
better than the actual espressos that I have had from the *$'s and a couple
of other places/restaurants. I hope, some day, to actually taste a good made
espresso.
But until then, I will continue to experiment with the AP way, using one of
Tom's blends.
/08, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Frank
"Still the one"
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18) From: Frank Awbrey
Thx, Ivan. I have tried the inverted method and the polyfilter, but keep
going back to the easy way when using the AP. I do agree with you about the
taste of espresso from the commercial companies (that I have tried). It is
bad, very bad. I have been using the AP for the last 9-10 months. It is my
only brewing method currently. Other than normal drip, I have not tried any
other brewing method. When I order from SM's, I normally order 12 pounds at
a time with 1-2 pounds different varieties of coffee. So far, I have not
tried the same coffee twice, I don't think.
I enjoy trying the different ones. Yirga Konga I am now drinking is very
good. That is what I tried for my "espresso" shot. I really liked it. I am
wondering if an "espresso blend" from Tom would tasted better in the AP over
an SO shot. I will find out because I only have a little over 2 pounds of
coffee left and will be ordering in a week or so. I will order one of the
blends to try.
On 6/15/08, sci  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Frank
"Still the one"
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19) From: JoAnne Phillips
Unfortunately the one in Tucson is no more.  It was the Coffee Vein  
on Stone
and I stopped by yesterday and found it has closed.  This is what  
comes of
procrastinating.  I've been meaning to stop for months and just  
didn't get around
to it.  I was hoping to try the house blend and if I liked it to buy  
some.  We are
now over 100 and my iRoast just doesn't work at these temps.
I tried the dryer ducting to an exhaust fan and melted the plastic  
cover, replaced
that with metal and cooked the fan.  My husband is in the process of  
replacing
the fan, but I have small hopes of this working.  Last year I tried a  
couple of
roasts from the Raging Sage someone recommended, but ended up using the
beans to clean out the minute rice after cleaning my Maestro.  I  
guess I'm going
to just order from SM and be done with it but I cringe at the shipping.
JoAnne in Tucson
On Jun 16, 2008, at 2:40 PM, Frank Awbrey wrote:
miKe, I have looked at that map before, but unfortunately there is  
nothing
close to me, the closest being in Tucson, AZ, about 250 miles away. I  
don't
travel down that way much.
Don't get me wrong. This cup that I had made from the AP was very  
good, much
better than the actual espressos that I have had from the *$'s and a  
couple
of other places/restaurants. I hope, some day, to actually taste a  
good made
espresso.
But until then, I will continue to experiment with the AP way, using  
one of
Tom's blends.
/08, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Frank
"Still the one"
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20) From: Warren and Carolyn
Joanne-
Raging Sage on Campbell north of Grant has decent coffee and depending 
on who is working the espresso can be very good as well. Give it a shot. 
(haven't been in Tucson since 05 though, but it was consistently at 
least good, and I was in Tucson about once a week for several years 
before that , and  I went there a lot)
Warren
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21) From: Warren and Carolyn
I  read your post again and realize you said that Raging Sage's  coffee 
sucked when you got it recently...too bad, they used to be decent; I 
must admit, though, I never bought coffee from them, only drank what 
they were offering, and I always got to town exhausted and in need of 
caffeine. But they might be worth another look, could have been a bad batch.
Warren
Warren and Carolyn wrote:
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