HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Scales (32 msgs / 910 lines)
1) From: ClassicalCup
I use two different digital scales as I go about my daily coffee 
rituals.  The bigger one will handle up to 6 pounds in ounces, 
pounds,  grams or kilos and is accurate to 1 gram across the spectrum.  I 
use it when I weigh green beans for roasting.  It is also a great kitchen 
and mail scale.  It is made by Escali and I have found it to be very 
reliable.  You can check it out at  www.escali.com  .
My other scale is a My Weigh M-120  which has a 120 gram capacity and an 
accuracy of 1/10 of a gram.  I use this scale daily when weighing coffee 
doses which I grind in my Mazzer Mini.  Since the Mini has a doser (great 
for when you have guests...lousy for single shot usage; i.e., most of the 
time)  I weigh out 21 grams,  dump into the hopper, grind into the doser, 
dose into my 3X Livia 90 basket and pull wonderful shots time after 
time.  With a little brushing of the doser,  I have only the freshest home 
roast coffee in my portafilter when I pull the shot.  I believe that if a 
person is going the route of home roasting, they are probably also into 
espresso and would therefore be interested in eliminating as many of the 
"variables" as possible.  An accurate scale (or two) can help the home 
barista to achieve more consistent shots on a daily basis.
  I got these scales via "buy it now" bidding at ebay and I have been very 
happy with both.
Bob
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2) From: Doug Cadmus
There is a talking food scale at --http://www.rehabmart.com/vision.aspIt's item number 4214, and retails for $82.95 US, and has a capacity of 11
pounds or 5 koligrams.
Best,
-deCadmus

3) From: Doug Cadmus
Whoops... reply number two. The same talking scale is on sale athttp://www.phonemerchants.com/talfoodscal.htmlfor $69.95 US.
-deCadmus

4) From: The Scarlet Wombat
Has anyone seen a scale that speaks the weights?  I would enjoy being so 
terribly precise, suits my engineering soul, but I cannot see the displays, 
so a talking scale is a must.
I have heard bathroom talking scales,some even insult you if you gain 
weight, dead scale, tiny pieces, reduce to dust. [grin]
Thanks,
Dan
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

5) From: John - wandering Texas
Dan,
	This is a German company but they sell here in the states.  They
manufacture a talking scale with a long boat scoop to hold the material,
easily poured into a grinder or roaster.http://www.caretec.at/products/englisch/waagen/qualitatswaagen.htmlJohn - looking forward to another 90 degree day!

6) From: The Scarlet Wombat
Thanks John, The Astra talking scale looks like the ideal unit, but there 
is no info on that site as to distribution in the  US,  so I wrote and 
asked about this.
This is an ideal hobby for blind people while so many hobbies require 
vision, I am trying to interest others in making coffee a hobby rather than 
just something to swill in the morning.
Dan
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7) From: Brian Kamnetz
Hi,
I don't have a scale and don't know anything about scales. Is it possible 
to get a scale at, say, Walmart, Target, etc. that is adequate for 
measuring greens? If so, about how much should I expect an adequate scale 
to cost?
thanks,
brian

8) From: Bob
Brian,
SM sells a very good scale for around $50 - digital and weighs up to 5# - You
want something that will weigh in oz & grams, AND be able to ignore the weight
of the bag or jar you put the beans in (tare // zeroing out)http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.roastkits.shtml1/2 down the page
Bob

9) From: Rick.Farris
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
Brian, you are in luck!  Our hosts here happen to be in the business of
selling most of the things that have to do with green coffee, and =
scales is
one of the items where they have taken all of the need-to-know =
information
out of the equation for you.  In other words, you don't *need* to know
anything about them because Tom has already spent a good deal of his =
time
researching them and selecting the absolute best at the fairest price =
that
you could hope for.
Look here:http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.roastkits.shtmldown a =
couple of
pages, just after the thermometers.
-- Rick
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11/4/2004 12:03:40 PM
Partly Cloudy in San Diego, CA
63°F (17°C)  -  50% RH 
Wind From the North Northwest at 9 mph (11:55:34)
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10) From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
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It's tought to find a good gram scale ... well, one in 2 gram 
increments would be fine for measuring roast batches. That's why we 
carry the Salter. If you can find an O'Haus gram scale for under say 
$80 I would take it - they are great. Unfortunately they tend toward 
$110+.
Tom
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- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                   "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
            Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting  -  Tom & Maria
                      http://www.sweetmarias.com                Thompson Owen george

11) From: miKe mcKoffee
Since Tom mentioned a brand he doesn't carry I'll mention Escali makes a
decent line of digital scales accurate to a gram. I have the 13# max model.
Currently places like eBay $34.95 BIN plus 7.95 s/h. Just searh Escali (13
isn't in the title) Not just for coffee, many baking recipes are by weight,
or weighing meats for vac'ing etc. Excellent general purpose kitchen scale
IMO.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc.http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htm

12) From: Dave Huddle
I'll second the recommendation.
Dave
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13) From: John Conte
Talking about scales- I bought the Salter 3001 from SM about 3 years ago and really like it. I've been having some problems with it for the last six months or so though. I have cut back on how much coffee I drink before leaving for work and am down to just 1 cup. I use the scale to measure my roasted beans, 9g per mug in my case, and the scale is unstable now in that low range. I have sent an email to Salter and am waiting for a response. My question is this- Salter makes a model, 2010, that does 1g resolution. Would this be better for my 5 day a week, 1 cup routine? I'm not sure if does tare and I asked that question in my email to Salter. I don't have a need for a high capacity scale. Maybe 1-2 lbs.
 
Thanks,
John

14) From: Verdova Bishop
Brian,
Here's the benefit of my research on the subject.  Dependent on your normal 
batch & serving sizes, the scales that I'd recommend are manufactured by a 
Canadian based company named "My Weigh" http://myweigh.com/pocketscales_Durascale.html If you require gram 
readability accuracy to 2 decimal places (1) For batches that do not exceed 
100 grams, the pocket sized Durascale 100 is the best choice at around $85; 
(2) For batches that do not exceed 200 grams, the medium sized iBalance 201 
is the best choice at around $100.  If you are economy minded and only 
require gram readability accuracy to 1 decimal place (like me), for batches 
that do not exceed 120 grams, then the pocket sized 120-Z at $22 will ring 
your bell.  I hope this helps.
Verdova

15) From: Maryann & Dave Schellenberg
I've been researching scales on the web a bit, and here is some 
information I found about Escali from: http://www.digitalscale.com/brands.htm#Escali    *ESCALI:*
    We don’t consider Escali as a scale company because they aren’t
    really a scale company. Escali/Auctionbroker is basically a 2-person
    operation. It consists of Theo and Ken. Theo imports the scales from
    China and Ken is the “Auctionbroker” who puts the scales all over
    Ebay (They deceptively sell under three eBay trading names which
    they pretend are not related: *InternetAuctionStore*,
    *InternetAuctionNews*, *Auctionbroker* and possibly others. They
    also have multiple websites that they also pretend are not related..
    ) They don’t design scales, they don’t have a support staff, they
    don't have a factory. They are just 2 guys in Minneapolis who work
    primarily from their homes. Here’s how it basically works (from our
    understanding): Theo might go to a trade show or two in China where
    he’ll see a scale in a trading company’s booth. Theo will order a
    few hundred of that scale and have them shipped to his small storage
    place. Ken then puts the scales on Ebay and VOILA, you have the
    Escali/Auctionbroker “brand” from start to finish. They don’t order
    enough of the scales to have color boxes for many of them, they
    sometimes don’t even have their Escali brand name printed on the
    scale (when you buy in small quantities the manufacturer will only
    give you a plain white or generic box). So when you buy an “Escali”
    you’ll sometimes get a plain white or generic box with no name on
    the scale itself. It can be disconcerting.
    The main problem with this setup is that there is no real quality
    control.
I've considered a few of the scales from Digital Scales Canada (web site 
store).
Does anyone know about their reliability?
Dave S.
Dave Huddle wrote:
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16) From: Justin Marquez
Maybe you could make a balance scale.  Here are the weights of US coins:
Cent = 2.500 Grams
Nickel = 5.000 gr
Dime = 2.268 gr
Quarter = 5.67 gr
Half Dollar = 11.34 gr
Sacagawea Dollar = 8.1 gr
Combinations could get you within a 2-3 grams of any target weight
over 2.268 grams!
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)http://www.justinandlinda.comOn Thu, 04 Nov 2004 12:41:24 -0700, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
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17) From: John Blumel
On Nov 4, 2004, at 4:13pm, miKe mcKoffee wrote:
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I believe the scale that Mike is referring to is essentially the same 
as some that Salter sells and scales sold by My Weigh that have the 
numbers 3001 (3KG x 1g) and 6001 (6KG x 1g). These all sell for around 
the same price but the My Weigh has a few features that the Escali and 
Salter don't, such as the ability to remember the last unit used (g, 
kg, lb, oz) and the capability to recalibrate the scale with standard 
weights. Also, the 6001 seems to have been replaced by a 7001DX model 
that has a capacity of 7KG x 1g.
One nice thing about all these scales is that they have a 1g or 0.1oz 
precision throughout the capacity range, whereas many similar kitchen 
scales operate in 2g increments or start out at 1g and, when a certain 
weight is reached, switch to 2g. Of course, I say that's nice but 
precision isn't the same thing as accuracy and I must admit that I'm 
taking it on faith that the precision and accuracy are matched.
John Blumel

18) From: John Blumel
On Nov 4, 2004, at 5:46pm, John Blumel wrote:
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Actually, I was wrong about these scales all having the same model 
numbers. Anyweigh, here's a link to a review of the scales in question 
that I meant to include in my original post:
  http://www.digitalscale.com/6001t.htmAnd also a review of the newer 7KG capacity scale at:
  http://www.digitalscale.com/7001t.htmThere are also reviews of other scales at this site. I don't think they 
actually sell them so the URLs should be OK.
John Blumel

19) From: Oaklandguy
Brian,
Yes, you can get perfectly acceptable scales at Target or Walmart that
show measure in both grams and ounces and are adjustable for tare.
Brent
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 12:41:24 -0700, Brian Kamnetz 
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20) From: miKe mcKoffee
Good point. I just checked my 13# Escali: nickel weighed 5gr (as any
recovering addict knows from using them for field checking scale
calibration:-), 1oz unwrapped piece of SB chocolate weighed 1oz or 29gr, 5#
bag of Thai Black Sweet Rice I bought today weighed 5# 2.8oz (not in bag it
came in of course, was going into vac canister anyway.) While I don't know
the accuracy of the 5# of rice from Thailand being really 5#, it does seem
the Escali scale I have looses accuracy as the weight increases. FWIW in the
past I have weighed bags-o-greens from Tom and have usually seemed about
right on the money IRRC. Need a pile of nickels or something else I know
it's weight to correctly verify multi pound accuracy:-)
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc.http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htm

21) From: Bob Baker
I was at a Safeway one time, and saw a woman weighing sacks of spuds,
and thought she was a loon, I was in a strange mood and asked her
what the heck she was doing...she just told me to weigh them myself
and I did...The funny or not so funny thing about weights and measures is
that it REALLY varies as far as pre-packaged produce.  The most
variation I've seen is on a 10lb sack of potatoes...Which can vary
up to a couple lbs.  Prepackaged onions tomatoes apples and other produce
varies quite a bit as well...
Bob
miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
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22) From: George Holt
Wal-mart carries a digital vegetable scale that measure grams and
ounces up to five pounds. It has a hopper that holds about 2 pounds.
Cost about $30.
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 17:56:43 -0600, Bob Baker  wrote:
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-- 
Living Large In Waxhaw, NC.
George Holt

23) From: Deward Hastings
I have personal experience with MyWeigh scales in several models (3001T,
i250, iBAL 210) . . . all have met or exceed their published specifications
when tested against lab standards, and so far have held up well in
"ordinary" use.  Most were obtained from an on-line vendor (with a hokey,
sometimes annoying but generally informative web site) called OldWillKnott,
which carries as well as MyWeigh a large selection of electronic balances
and scales in quite a range of styles and sensitivities (and prices). 
They even have a scale with stainless steel pan and replaceable front panel
(four spares provided) for those who habitually trash their scales with hot
wax, drain cleaner, or civet scat . . . 
Deward

24) From: David Lewis
At 12:41 PM -0700 11/4/04, Brian Kamnetz wrote:
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There are various good electronic scales, one of which is sold by our 
host, and those offer some advantages: they're easier to read than a 
mechanical scale and they have the ability to tare out the weight of 
a measuring container. That said, I used a small mechanical diet 
scale that I got at the local drug store for $12 for several years.
Best,
	David
-- 
"Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men 
who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without 
thunder and lightning."
	Frederick Douglass

25) From: Bob Glasscock
Re: Larry Williams and IR2
I also have been using the IR2 for about a year and have been "flying by the
seat of my pants," so to speak, and luckily have had pretty fair results.
Saw you were going to purchase a digital scale and couldn't help talking
about the best weapon I've added to my roasting arsenal. It is a simple
$7.00 scale by Salter - got it at Linens n Things, and now I'm no longer
chained to the 2-scoop method of measuring.
I would like to maintain a log. Any ideas on what data are truly relevant to
keeping a meaningful record?
Bob Glasscock
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26) From: John Despres
Bob,
I can send you a copy of my roasting log if you like. It's an Excel =
spread sheet, which also produces a graph of the roast. The graph has =
been extremely helpful in seeing exactly how the curve of my profiles =
look per roast.
I also use a digital scale which I have set on grams. By doing so, I've =
eliminated that variable from the guess work.
John
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-- =
John A C Despres
Hug your kids
616.437.9182
Scene It All Productions 
JD’s Coffee Provoked Ramblings =
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27) From: Paul Helbert
My simple log sheet :http://home.rica.net/phelbert/CLog.rtf. Most any word
processor should be able to open the file. Please let me know if you have
trouble with it.
On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 8:54 AM, John Despres 
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I'd like to see a copy of that, too, please.
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28) From: Larry Williams
John
Shortly after I got my IR2 in Dec 2006 you offered up your spread sheet 
which I received, and shortly after that my something happened to my PC 
and I lost all my e-mail including your spread sheet.  To make matters 
worse, I couldn't remember your name, and this is the first time I have 
seen you mention your spread sheet.  I do remember you put a LOT of work 
and time into it.  Beautifully done.
For many months I have mostly used the Preset 2 on the IR2, and watched 
every roast closely and stopped them usually between 1:30 and 3:00 
remaining on the timer.  I the beginning I would wait for the first sign 
of oil to show on the outside of the beans, and hit cool.  It worked 
some of the time, but it went too far for my preferences.  Over the 
months I have read many posts about profiles that take longer to ramp up 
before the first crack.  I am starting to experiment with that, but 
haven't found it yet.  I really haven't kept many notes but I'm starting 
to see the value of record keeping.  I tend to buy beans from the 
Americas, so my notes will never be as extensive as some, but I believe 
I am finally starting to figure it out.
John have you experimented with the extending the ramp time?  I know 
that there are a lot variables in bean density, weight, and hardness, 
and not all beans will react or need the slow ramp to hit the sweet 
spot.  In fact, I am not sure that it is even necessary to extend the 
ramp times.  A year and a half later and I still feel like a rookie.  
Any experience with that?  My thought is that perhaps starting with the 
lowest temp the IR2 is capable of and extending it.  Then go up from 
there in short steps.  For me, it's to C+.
Bob - My suggestion is to get familiar with your machine and work with 
consistent amounts of beans.  I am going to buy a digital scale soon.  
The IR2 is very sensitive to weight change. Like I said, I have used the 
preset 2 hundreds of times, and have had good luck for my taster.  I 
have never been able to hear the cracks, so I have always relied on 
visual.  It has worked for me, but I really want to learn how to program 
to get that little extra.    
Larry
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29) From: John Despres
Larry,
I play with different profiles all the time. I don't know about the IR2 =
so the mechanics of the machine will be lost on me. However, in general, =
I'm still learning. I read everything I can get my hands on about =
roasting including a subscription to Roasting Magazine.
I apply some basic rules to each roast. But that's not the end... I read =
what I can about the specific bean, try and determine as much as I can =
about where it was grown, it's processing, how it was grown, exact =
elevation and anything else I can learn. I do record it in my notebook =
divided alphabetically by country for future reference. But that's not =
the end. I research each bean each time I roast it until I find a =
profile I like, I'll then star that profile in the logbook and start =
playing again.
In my research, I make notes on lots of stuff, including if wet =
processing is done in wooden or concrete troughs. It may never make a =
difference, but one day, I may hit an "AHA!" with that information. Who =
knows?
Last, but not least, I read every post here. Even the off topic ones; =
there may be some coffee talk there. There is so much to learn from our =
roasting brothers and sisters.
Is all this overkill? I don't know, but it is FUN!
OK, that said, I spend a bit of time thinking about each bean as I =
choose the profile. I may make adjustments on the fly, and I note the =
reason for the adjustment in my log and tweak the profile the next time =
I roast that bean.
I'm not able to drag all of this out of my head - I'm not so smart as to =
teach yet... But here goes.
I essentially divide my roasts into three stages (some use 5, I think I =
read somewhere), although lately I have been using the drum to cool the =
beans before dumping to the vaccum/colander, so I guess that'd be a 4th =
stage. I then apply different profiles to each stage, keep very careful =
notes and drink coffee with the profile in front of me. I also keep =
tasting logs. I don't "cup" the coffee, per se, but taste it brewed in =
my French Press. Someone emailed me a coffee tasting wheel that was a =
huge help.
All of this was made possible with some help from Eddie Dove, who keeps =
excellent logs and even posts many of his profiles on line for us to =
download. Eddie was a great help when I discovered he uses the same type =
of roaster I do. He was most patient answering my questions and emailed =
web sites and tips for me to study. At the time some of the stuff was =
over my head, but I kept on going and I'd read something a week later =
and get an "AHA!" moment.
Enough. I guess the short answer is: Yes, I experiment with ramp times...
John
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-- =
John A C Despres
Hug your kids
616.437.9182
Scene It All Productions 
JD’s Coffee Provoked Ramblings =
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30) From: John Despres
Oh... I roast in a Gene Cafe, so everything is 100% manual roasting. The =
profiles are my own, so I can change any stage to be longer or shorter =
based on the temp I've chosen.
John
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-- =
John A C Despres
Hug your kids
616.437.9182
Scene It All Productions 
JD’s Coffee Provoked Ramblings =
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31) From: Mike Sieweke
Hi Bob,
These are the things I keep in my roasting log, which is
a 5x7 spiral-bound notebook.  This all fits on a single
page.  My logs aren't always this detailed.
- date
- coffee type/origin, date purchased
- programmed roast profile for iRoast
- ambient air temperature
- starting weight of beans (always 4 oz.)
- ending weight of beans
- bean temperature every minute, more often near the end
- time of first crack (start and end)
- time of second crack (if it gets that far, if audible)
- amount of fine chaff (rough estimate)
- amount of coarse chaff (rough estimate)
- number of sinkers (off-colored beans)
- approximate roast level (guesstimate based on color,
   sheen, surface oil)
- were there any divots?
- cupping notes on each day
   (Does it get better with rest?
    When does it peak?
    When does it fade? (if it lasts that long))
I have a digital thermometer with a probe in the bean mass.
This has helped a great deal in reproducing a good roast.
Sometimes the same coffee will take up to a minute more or
less roast time, but the thermometer lets me know how the
roast is progressing.  I find it more reliable and consistent
than visual or audible cues.
My typical roasts take 8-9 minutes, except decaf, which takes
10-11 minutes.  The amount of chaff has a significant impact
on roast temperature in the iRoast.  Decaf has nearly zero
chaff.
Mike Sieweke
On Mar 1, 2008, at 8:37 AM, Bob Glasscock wrote:
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32) From: Larry Williams
John thanks for taking the time to respond.  Your efforts in this hobby 
or in your case passion are amazing.  I did notice some particularly 
relevant posts having to do with the IR.  You are right - there is a 
huge amount of knowledge in this list.
When my IR2 dies I will be getting a Gene Cafe and be back to you.
Thanks again
Larry
John Despres wrote:
<Snip>
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