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Topic: quick roast with Freshroast (11 msgs / 412 lines)
1) From: Michael Burer
Good morning, everyone!
 
Last night I roasted three batches of Brazil Cerrado with the Freshroast. I took note of the times, and each batch entered first crack around 4 minutes and second crack around 5. From what I have gleaned from others who mention roast times, this seems really fast. It is even faster than the times mentioned in the SM tip sheet. Two questions have arisen in my mind: Does a slower roast produce substantially different results? How would I practically and safely slow this process down with this machine?
 
Thanks, 
Michael Burer
 
Michael H. Burer, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of New Testament Studies
Dallas Theological Seminary
(214) 382-3927
mburer
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2) From: Brian Kamnetz
The answer to your question about roast times is "Yes". Or "No". Or
"Maybe". There has been a good deal of discussion on this topic over
the years, and there is a substantial contingent that believes that
with most unmodified air poppers, the best roasts result from roasting
quickly. With drum roasters, or with highly modified air poppers such
as the Original Poppery that Mike (just plain) uses, the answer is
substantially different, in no small part, I believe, because of the
much greater control that is possible over the length of the roasting
profile (e.g., certain rise in temps over the first 2 minutes,
different rate of rise in temps over minutes 3 and 4, etc.).
That is a summary of the comments I have seen on this list over the
years. I would expect you will receive highly divergent points of view
as well.
Brian
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 6:50 AM, Michael Burer  wrote:
<Snip>
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3) From: Martin Dobbins
Hi Michael,
 
I've been home roasting for four months and all of them on a Freshroast. =
 Where did you manage to get one that roasts so slow?   Depending o=
n the bean, I can get to first crack in around 3 minutes lasting to 4 minut=
es.  Second crack follows in anything from 10 seconds to one minute.  T=
he last Brazil I roasted got a little over 5 minutes on the Freshroast dial=
 and I still had to "move the dial on" because the roast was just beginning=
 to start second crack with 30 seconds still to go and I was looking for Ci=
ty+(!)
 
You bet I think this roaster is too fast, 10 seconds can make the differenc=
e between under and over roasted and the sweet spot is somewhere in the mid=
dle two seconds of that 10.  I'm not sure it makes much difference heat=
ing rapidly to first crack (wiser heads might differ), but I'd like to stre=
tch the time a little between first crack and second  to increase the win=
dow of opportunity for anything from City to Full City+.
 
Martin
--- On Wed, 7/16/08, Michael Burer wrote:
Good morning, everyone!
 =
Last night I roasted three batches of Brazil Cerrado with the Freshroast. I
took note of the times, and each batch entered first crack around 4 minutes=
 and
second crack around 5. From what I have gleaned from others who mention roa=
st
times, this seems really fast. It is even faster than the times mentioned in
the SM tip sheet. Two questions have arisen in my mind: Does a slower roast
produce substantially different results? How would I practically and safely
slow this process down with this machine?
 =
Thanks, =
Michael Burer
 =
 =
Michael H. Burer, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of New Testament Studies
Dallas Theological Seminary
(214) 382-3927
mburer =
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Homeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7820      =
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4) From: Bill Van Huis
4 minutes to 1st crack doesn't seem too fast to me, but 5 mins. to 2nd does.
There area lot of variables impacting roast time with a Freshie.  Volatage
is a big one, but so is the type of beans you use.  The size, processing
method, and density of the beans can really make a difference.
I think roast time does make a difference, especially if you get to
2ndcrack very quickly.
I think the danger is you end up a with a bean that is overroasted on the
outside and underroasted on the inside.  Of course, the ultimate question is
how do you think your roast tastes, notwithstanding the fast times.
Have you roasted beans of other orgin with the same results?  Try a Central
or an Indonesian and see what the time to 2nd crack is.
Other ideas to slow a FR8 roast that do not involve a screwdriver (many of
these came from the fine folks on the message board):
--Make sure you wait until the chamber has fully cooled when doing
consecutive roasts
--Use 2 level scoops instead of 2 heaping scoops of beans
--Instead of using 2 scoops of beans, weigh them out to 50g per roast
--(Carefully) Use an extension cord when you roast
--Roast at a time when the draw on your electric grid is high (my roast
times have gone up over 20% the last couple of evenings because all my
neighbors are running their A/C)
--Turn the dial to cool at intervals during the roast.  For example, after
every minute, turn the dial to cool for 5 seconds, and then restart.  You
can experiment with times and see what you get.
-- With beans with lots of chaff, I've even stopped the roast just before 1
st crack, quickly emptied the chaff collector, and resumed the roast. The
theory is the roasting chamber retains more heat when the chaff collector is
clogged.
Good luck!
*Good morning, everyone!
Last night I roasted three batches of Brazil Cerrado with the Freshroast. I
took note of the times, and each batch entered first crack around 4 minutes
and second crack around 5. From what I have gleaned from others who mention
roast times, this seems really fast. It is even faster than the times
mentioned in the SM tip sheet. Two questions have arisen in my mind: Does a
slower roast produce substantially different results? How would I
practically and safely slow this process down with this machine?
Thanks,
Michael Burer*
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5) From: David Martin
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 4:50 AM, Michael Burer  wrote:
...
<Snip>
Based on my experience, for some types of beans it makes a huge
difference, but for most beans you can still get decent results with a
fast roast. However, I think Martin Dobbins hit the nail on the head -
one of the biggest problems is that the time between first and second
crack is so short, it's hard to plan on a specific roast level and
then actually achieve it.
<Snip>
If you google "freshroast variac", you'll find a lot of information on
how to use a variable transformer to gain control over your
freshroast. I never tried this myself, but my guess is that this would
be a very effective solution.
-Dave
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6) From: MJR
Hello Michael...
The freshroast is faster than drum roasters. In general "fluid bed"
roasters are faster. I get the same times as you, about 4 mins to 1st
crack, then another minute to 2nd crack. Varies about 30 secs plus or
minus those times depending on the bean.
<Snip>
different time/temperature profiles (always bean dependent), something
that is not conveniently controlled with the FR8. Mucking about with the
voltage (a long extension cord will lower it for example) affects not only
the heat but also the fan, and you're not really gaining the kind of
control you need for roast profiling anyway, just slowing things down a
little -- which can have some noticable effect so I'm not saying not to
try it.
I've been using the FR8+ for about 8 months now and I love what it does
for my coffee! I suppose one of these days I'll get something more
sophisticated and give it a try, but for now, the FR8 is fine for me.
There is much you can do to emphasize different flavors in a particular
coffee even without fancy profiling... For example, I've taken to roasting
3 or 4 batches of the same bean (with appropriate cool-down between
roasts)  varying the roast from C or C+ to FC+ or Vienna in each batch.
I'm told this is called "bracketing", the resultant bean collection called
a "melange". When you brew the coffee you get a flavor that carries
everything from the native taste of the particular bean to the deeper
roasted flavors more typical of darker roasts.
Matthew quine Rapaport
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7) From: raymanowen
With my Fresh Roast, I questioned whether the roast could be improved by
stretching it out to match the profiles bandied about by those able to
achieve the variations. [YES!]
Since it's already fast- 6 minutes on mine if you just set it and forget it-
my only problem was to lower the heat and increase the heating time. Child's
play, without modification. The problem for some is that this manner of
roasting requires your full attention. 95% attention will very soon disclose
latent ADHD on the roaster's part. Here's why:
The roaster is fast because it's hot. The heat can be reduced by cycling the
heat off (into the Cool cycle for 10 seconds each minute or 5 sec ea 30,
back to the timed heat range and just listen for the cracks.) I prefer
delaying the start of 1st for 9 min and a total time of 18 - 19 min.
I originally started out with 3/8ths cup of green beans in a cool FR. When
the roast gets into 2nd crack, I cool it quickly.
Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa!
Got Grinder?
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8) From: MJR
Hi all,
Bill said:
<Snip>
The FR8 is fast, and I'm sure, compared to roasters that permit more
control over temperature changes this has a limiting effect on flavor
development and also is a problem trying to pick the roast-spot you want
between 1st and 2nd crack (which is usually about a minute or so). But I
think that even 4 or 5 minutes floating in the hot air is enough time to
transfer heat all the way through the bean. If you crush a few beans by
hand you'll see they're the same color all the way through.
A good transformer (if it can handle the wattage) would be the best way to
control things, voltage to the unit, but I'd be concerned that the fan
would be likewise affected...
Also, 2.25oz raw beans (the recommended load) is 64g. If I'm not mistaken,
reducing the beans in the chamber slows the roast because the beans are
tossed around more -- they are spread out in the chamber more and in less
contact with the hotter air close to the heat source. So if you lower the
heat, fan, and bean-count in the chamber, all 3 factors should compensate
and provide a slower roast... Where does one find such a powerful
transformer?
Matthew quine Rapaport
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9) From: sci
Michael,
Good to see you on this list. I'm a Criswell grad. [B.A. 1990; M.A. 1991],
right around the corner from DTS. I used to hang out over there a lot, and
have had lots of DTS friends over the years. I'm in NC now. I've been on
this list for about 6-7 mos. and I absolutely dig homeroasting. I roast 3-4
times a week using mostly IR2, WhirleyPop for slow roasts.  The general
consensus that I've picked up and have experienced is this: the slower the
roast the lower the acidity and greater body. So, a bean roasted in IR2 to
C+ taking about 7 mins. would yield higher acidity and lower body than the
same bean roasted by drum/convection at 17 mins. THe latter approach gives
deeper body, but tones down the acidity. I'm no expert here, but I do find
this to be generally true. I however love the snappy acidity; some hate it
and go for low acid slow roasts. The only bean that is too acidic for me are
some Kenyans. Roast a high-brow Kenyan in fluid-bed roaster for 6 mins and
you'll get so much acid you could power a battery!
Anyway, I don't have a Freshroast, but my IR2 has the same problem: roasting
too fast. Here are quick and dirty methods to try for slowing that puppy
down: 1. Use a long extension cord to drop the line voltage by increasing
resistance. 2. Roast in a cooler ambient enviro. 3. Find some way to
increase the air flow (e.g., Allon uses an external fan to suck air faster
though the unit). You might be able to loosen something to increase air
flow. 4. Use less beans b/c it increases air flow.
Lastly, consider this: a limited platform for roasting like FR and IR2 works
best with certain origins and beans. I suspect that there are some beans
these units don't roast very well b/c of the exact issue we're talking
about. However, some beans really rock in these micro roasters. When you
find them, take note for future purchasing. When you find one that just
doesn't work well, avoid that type of bean.
FWIW
Ivan
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:52:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Martin Dobbins 
Subject: Re: [Homeroast] quick roast with Freshroast
To: homeroast
Message-ID: <729717.41848.qm>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Hi Michael,
?
I've been home roasting for four months and all of them on a Freshroast.?
Where did you manage to get one that roasts so slow? ? Depending on
the bean, I can get to first crack in around 3 minutes lasting to 4
minutes.? Second crack follows in anything from 10 seconds to one minute.?
The last Brazil I roasted got a little over 5 minutes on the Freshroast dial
and I still had to "move the dial on" because the roast was just beginning
to start second crack with 30 seconds still to go and I was looking for
City+(!)
?
You bet I think this roaster is too fast, 10 seconds can make the difference
between under and over roasted and the sweet spot is somewhere in the middle
two seconds of that 10.? I'm not sure it makes much difference?heating
rapidly to first crack (wiser heads might differ), but I'd like to stretch
the time a little between first crack and second? to increase the window of
opportunity for anything from City to Full City+.
?
Martin
--- On Wed, 7/16/08, Michael Burer wrote:
Good morning, everyone!
Last night I roasted three batches of Brazil Cerrado with the Freshroast. I
took note of the times, and each batch entered first crack around 4 minutes
and
second crack around 5. From what I have gleaned from others who mention
roast
times, this seems really fast. It is even faster than the times mentioned in
the SM tip sheet. Two questions have arisen in my mind: Does a slower roast
produce substantially different results? How would I practically and safely
slow this process down with this machine?
Thanks,
Michael Burer
Michael H. Burer, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of New Testament Studies
Dallas Theological Seminary
(214) 382-3927
mburer
Homeroast mailing list
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10) From: David Martin
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 12:52 PM, MJR  wrote:
<Snip>
In support of this point, in hundreds of FR roasts, I never had a case
where the beans were not fully and evenly roasted.
-Dave
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11) From: Steve Bien
I'm a fresh roast fan. I love the coffee - I might like acidity - and I love
roasting a little bit everyday. Maybe this will get old, but not yet. 
I typically hit the first crack at about 4 minutes with mine, and the second
crack is at least a minute, often two minutes behind that. Often I don't get
a second crack with my machine unless I am doing a '7' minute roast. 
There apparently is a lot of machine-machine variation, or variation in
household voltage. I once ran the toaster oven simultaneously and the roast
went to 13 minutes before the second crack. 
Steve
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